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Old 16th September 2007, 23:57   #31
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That's all from me on this thread.

haven't been around very long, and I'd like to be around a bit longer without being banned for abuse.
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Old 17th September 2007, 00:10   #32
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Teg, as much as I appreciate your views on this topic I might have to disagree with you. I have seen many of these tests being carried out on empty, inhabited ring roads across the city where finding a single soul is difficult and there are a lot of professional drag guys who carry on these tests quite responsibly making sure they don't put anyone at harms way. Besides, if our Govt's were to promote the sport by putting up a drag strip/track I really don't think we would have to see any of this on public roads. And redlining in 1st gear is about 55kmph, which IMO is the speed even the bicycles ride in Bangalore .

The guy has a genuine question and is trying to find a technical answer to this. Last we need is pin pointing fingers here and derail the thread completely. NONE of us here are wall flowers, look around the top speed thread once to know what I mean.

Before you accuse me of the same, I DO drive my car and test its limits on Drag Strips by travelling all the way to Bombay and on tracks at Chennai & Coimbatore.
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Old 17th September 2007, 00:21   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
He's talking about a very extreme driving style, which is certainly in my opinion, a very wrong driving style.

At least he says he only does it when the roads are empty, although I don't think imposing the noise on others at night is a good idea either.

This is kiddy stuff.

There are tracks and events where people are free to do it and enjoy --- and even the audience will enjoy too.

Sorry, but I do think that the city streets are a place for more grown-up driving. Even if every bus, truck and travels car in this city disagrees with me....
Thad, what do you define as kiddy and grown up driving? You can do 60 kmph on the Koramangala-Indiranagar Inner RR. Whether you choose to do it at redline in 1st gear, or cruise along in 5th, is upto you. Whether you choose to quickshift, or lazily granny shift, is also upto you. I fail to see how this is dangerous. He's not talking about tailgating, swerving through traffic, or anything else that I would personally consider dangerous.
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Old 17th September 2007, 01:18   #34
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Thad, there are times when the car needs to be tested to a particular extent. As long as they do it safely without interfering or disturbing public in general, even I would have no issues with it.

If done in an amateur fashion or for show-offs, as our thread creator mentioned, it is
Quote:
"I just want to shift quick. Although sound effects etc. are acceptable if they are a bye-product of quick shifting."
There sure is a bye-product than a by-product.

BTW doomsday, I was just indicating that 40 in the first gear on a carb 800 is close to blowing the engine, it is not a good figure when you talk about short shifting. If you listen to the engine, it feels like it is too much at 30. If others would suggest that to be an ok speed to rev till, I am sorry. It was just my opinion, it means nothing and that is exactly what it is worth
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Old 17th September 2007, 07:34   #35
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Wow. All the way to the red eh?? Reminds me of a friend who did that to my brand new car few months back. Nearly strangled him to death after we stopped!!!
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Old 17th September 2007, 07:36   #36
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LOL!! Loved that remark Thad!!!
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Old 17th September 2007, 08:09   #37
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Originally Posted by v1p3r View Post

Anup, Vivek, really, this guy is asking a question. Do you have to come in everywhere and condemn everyone who doesn't drive the way you like?
actually, it does seem like an overkill .
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Old 17th September 2007, 08:19   #38
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Originally Posted by v1p3r View Post
Thad, what do you define as kiddy and grown up driving? You can do 60 kmph on the Koramangala-Indiranagar Inner RR. Whether you choose to do it at redline in 1st gear, or cruise along in 5th, is upto you. Whether you choose to quickshift, or lazily granny shift, is also upto you. I fail to see how this is dangerous. He's not talking about tailgating, swerving through traffic, or anything else that I would personally consider dangerous.
Exactly. I don't know why people generally think that doing a certain speed in higher gear is safer than doing the same in a lower gear. When I ask this question people substantiate by providing the excuse: "I am preserving the engine". Hello???? What good would that do? Preserving the engine for what? Space travel? What they don't understand is that a lower gear will give them more throttle control than a higher gear and make them less prone to antics like locking up etc. in case of a emergency braking maneuver. Hell, I have seen people taking a 90 degree curve with the clutch depresssed. Or better still they shift to neutral while going downhill, explanation given: Saving fuel and engine. I am sorry but I personally find this kind of driving a hell lot more irresponsible than me doing 80 in gear 2.

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Originally Posted by rocksterraghu View Post
Thad, there are times when the car needs to be tested to a particular extent. As long as they do it safely without interfering or disturbing public in general, even I would have no issues with it.

If done in an amateur fashion or for show-offs, as our thread creator mentioned, it is
Thats what I am trying to do here, and I am sure many members do the same. A vehicle, be it a bike or a car is not merely a means of transport for me. At least, we should be happy that we are getting some stuff in India which is worth driving/riding hard. If the case was everyone shifting into 4th at 35 kph (thats what my first driving instructor told me to do) we would have still been stuck with the good ol' Ambys and Padminis. I don't know how many people would have appreciated that and felt that the roads would be "safer" rather than the reality we have here today, with Swifts to
Skoda RSs being available off the shelf for any driving enthusiast. I wouldn't be the one sharing the same opinion.

And showing off does not come close even to the last thing on my priority list. I just want to learn about how these things work, and thought that many knowledgeable members here would be able to provide an explanation for my query rather than condemning me for irresponsible driving.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
He's talking about a very extreme driving style, which is certainly in my opinion, a very wrong driving style.

At least he says he only does it when the roads are empty, although I don't think imposing the noise on others at night is a good idea either.
I am taking a wild guess here that you have never been to a state high above known as Uttar Pradesh.

Once you visit pretty much any city here, barring the capital maybe, your definitions and perceptions of safe driving will go for a spin to planet Mars.

I wouldn't elaborate as other people will get the drift by what I have said so far.

Small incident I would like to share with you though, Thad, to substantiate my point.

A couple of days back, I was on the State Highway. Was doing 80 kph in 4th (Car was a Baleno) and comfortably cruising in the right most lane sticking to the divider. There was a Tata 307 (the loader) three car lengths ahead of me. Suddenly, out of nowhere, the 307 swerved left and the next thing I see is, two cyclists coming on the wrong way in the right most lane, which is the fastest lane for oncoming traffic. I barely swerved and avoided them.

When I pulled over to the shoulder for some tea, I asked some locals what these guys were up to? The explanation was: "His village lies on the right side of the highway. So instead of taking a detour to the divider, he will come on the wrong side, in the fastest lane, so he doesn't have to cross the highway later.

Now that in my opinion is, as bad and dangerous other people can make for you here.

You see, I have countless incidents like this to tell, all happened during my one month trip here. But I just narrated one of them, to drive home my point. It doesn't matter if one drives at 120 kph or 12 kph, one can be danger to oneself and other road users irrespective of the speeds one is doing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post

This is kiddy stuff.

Sorry, but I do think that the city streets are a place for more grown-up driving. Even if every bus, truck and travels car in this city disagrees with me....
I hope you are not saying that looking at my age in my profile.

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Originally Posted by rocksterraghu View Post
There sure is a bye-product than a by-product.
There goes one of my rare typos. I thought it wouldn't be noticed.
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Old 17th September 2007, 08:20   #39
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v1p3r, I'm sorry we have not been able to provide an answer to his question. I'm not even clear about what the question IS. Is the question about wheelspin or is it about quick-shifting? What is the desired objective?
If it is about quick-shifting to get the best acceleration figures, then wheelspin should be completely avoided.
If it is about inducing wheelspin, then redlining the engine is not normally necessary. It is factors like torque curve, gear ratios, harsh or soft clutch, type of footwear and type of road surface that go towards deciding it.

Not being an expert in these areas, I would leave it to the accomplished to try and answer these questions.
Sorry for 'preaching' about how to behave on public roads. It does seem OT here.
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Old 17th September 2007, 09:04   #40
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Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
v1p3r, I'm sorry we have not been able to provide an answer to his question. I'm not even clear about what the question IS. Is the question about wheelspin or is it about quick-shifting? What is the desired objective?
Okay. 36 posts and you are yet to decipher my question. Now, I can safely say that my sentence phrasing skills need an overhaul.


So I will re-phrase the question I put up in the pilot post. Why do the M800 and the Ikon wheelspin and squeal while shifting at the redline (almost), while the Baleno does not; even though the factors like road surface, shift time/style remains the same. Also mentioned is the fact that all three cars are running factory stock (including the rubber) and the odometer readings have been mentioned in post #4. Later I also wanted to know if these wheelspins/squeals are an indicator of how quick I am shifting, coz AFAIK I am shifting equally quick in all the three cars from my end. (i.e. not taking into consideration the mechanical factors like the gearbox throw and gear ratios)

So what actually causes these wheelspins? Is it the gearbox alone or another factor/combination of other factors mentioned earlier?

I hope THIS "rephrased" post clarifies my question to all here. If not, I guess I'll have to go back to junior school to learn subject-verb agreement.
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Old 17th September 2007, 10:30   #41
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Originally Posted by rocksterraghu View Post
I doubt that figure. The 800 doesn't do more than 30 even when pushed to the limits. I have a '97 Carb 800 and a Baleno. The Baleno does 50 at the redline in the first gear, I wonder how you were able to hit 35-40 in the 800.
I second that rock! I won't even try taking me 98 Carb 800 to 30 in first gear!
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Old 17th September 2007, 11:17   #42
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Originally Posted by doomsday View Post
So I will re-phrase the question I put up in the pilot post. Why do the M800 and the Ikon wheelspin and squeal while shifting at the redline (almost), while the Baleno does not
IMO, one reason could be this- Baleno has wider gear ratios compared to Ikon and 800.

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Later I also wanted to know if these wheelspins/squeals are an indicator of how quick I am shifting.
I don't think so
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Old 17th September 2007, 12:18   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordofgondor View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by rocksterraghu
I doubt that figure. The 800 doesn't do more than 30 even when pushed to the limits. I have a '97 Carb 800 and a Baleno. The Baleno does 50 at the redline in the first gear, I wonder how you were able to hit 35-40 in the 800.
I second that rock! I won't even try taking me 98 Carb 800 to 30 in first gear!
It's possible to take the Maruti 800 to almost near 50 in the first gear if you redline it. I have done that on my old Maruti.
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Old 17th September 2007, 13:35   #44
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OK, I'm still here!

I really agree with the principle of what you say about a lower gear giving you control, and have been making that point, with others, in another thread.

I didn't check out your profile, and I don't know your age. We can all be kiddies... I can certainly be a kiddie and I'm well into what is called 'middle-age'. But being a kiddie should be saved up for the playground, even if it is the adult-kiddie playground

The red-line is a warning line. Some cars have tachometers with a 'comfort-zone' for changing up and down --- it will leave a large margin between stalling at lower revs and blowing up your engine.

Really.... I'm not a complete old kill-joy! But the kind of driving you describe really should be track, or once-in-a while stuff.

How quickly you wear out your own car is nobody's business but your own, but being of the belief that they put that red line there as the place to change up is woefully, horribly, car-destroyingly, totally wrong!
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Old 17th September 2007, 13:53   #45
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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
OK, I'm still here!

I really agree with the principle of what you say about a lower gear giving you control, and have been making that point, with others, in another thread.

I didn't check out your profile, and I don't know your age. We can all be kiddies... I can certainly be a kiddie and I'm well into what is called 'middle-age'. But being a kiddie should be saved up for the playground, even if it is the adult-kiddie playground

The red-line is a warning line. Some cars have tachometers with a 'comfort-zone' for changing up and down --- it will leave a large margin between stalling at lower revs and blowing up your engine.

Really.... I'm not a complete old kill-joy! But the kind of driving you describe really should be track, or once-in-a while stuff.

How quickly you wear out your own car is nobody's business but your own, but being of the belief that they put that red line there as the place to change up is woefully, horribly, car-destroyingly, totally wrong!
Great to still have you here, I must say. I thought you left the thread for good.

Comfort zones on the rev-counter; they seems something like the "Economy Zone" some cars and bikes have on the speedo. How many times do people go by it is a different matter altogether. Also, you might be doing 50 on the speedo which is in the economy zone but doing it in first cog won't take one far in achieving economy.

I am not trying the economy part here, nevertheless I don't want to blow up engines also. This is why I make sure that I shift just before the redline, and avoid meeting one Mr. Rev Limiter.

Trust me if I could make it to the track every weekend; there will be nothing like it. Coz I'll not have to ruin my sleep trying all these antics at 3 in the night. But till that happens, 3 in the night it is.

I will do it, until the day I decide that its enough, the day which probably will not come before I breath my last. Amen.
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