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Old 17th September 2007, 13:54   #46
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That's cool, I wonder what the engine would have sounded like! Pure agony I guess!
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Old 17th September 2007, 14:48   #47
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oops sorry double post! Internet connection was acting up.

Last edited by Sankar : 17th September 2007 at 14:52.
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Old 17th September 2007, 14:49   #48
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That's cool, I wonder what the engine would have sounded like! Pure agony I guess!
Not really. You guessed wrong
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Old 17th September 2007, 16:02   #49
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Originally Posted by doomsday View Post
A couple of days back, I was on the State Highway. Was doing 80 kph in 4th (Car was a Baleno) and comfortably cruising in the right most lane sticking to the divider. There was a Tata 307 (the loader) three car lengths ahead of me. Suddenly, out of nowhere, the 307 swerved left and the next thing I see is, two cyclists coming on the wrong way in the right most lane, which is the fastest lane for oncoming traffic. I barely swerved and avoided them.

When I pulled over to the shoulder for some tea, I asked some locals what these guys were up to? The explanation was: "His village lies on the right side of the highway. So instead of taking a detour to the divider, he will come on the wrong side, in the fastest lane, so he doesn't have to cross the highway later.
Um, was this in UP? I've seen this happen on the GQ stretch between B'lore and Chennai too. Probably happens everywhere highways pass through inhabited areas. Worse still, when it happens at night.

I went from "What's that thingy up ahead in my lane?" to "Jesus Christ, what the <expletive> is he doing?" in about a second, accompanied by braking and dodging.
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Old 17th September 2007, 16:04   #50
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Originally Posted by lordofgondor View Post
That's cool, I wonder what the engine would have sounded like! Pure agony I guess!
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Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
Not really. You guessed wrong
Way wrong, I must say. On the contrary the soundtrack was pure musical bliss, unlike anything one might expect the puny 800 to sound like with its small 3-pot mill.

P.S. Just went out and shot the video. Will be uploading it soon.
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Old 17th September 2007, 17:59   #51
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Originally Posted by doomsday View Post
So what actually causes these wheelspins? Is it the gearbox alone or another factor/combination of other factors mentioned earlier?
As i mentioned about the flywheel's usage in my earlier post, I think it's the engine running at a totally different speed than what the gear box has set up after the upshift, which causes the surge of power from the flywheel. of course it will be a short burst.

I had misread your first post, correcting it, "if you want to avoid the squeal, you shud look at synchronizing the engine speed to a speed appropriate for the next gear you are shifting to."
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Old 17th September 2007, 19:24   #52
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Economy driving? Well.... some days the turbo on my swift hardly gets any exercise at all, and I am not a particularly economy-minded driver, in fact I don't even bother to calculate the fuel cost except vaguely.

Nor do I even look at the tachometer much, I drive by engine sound and feel, but I doubt that I exceed 3,000 much! OK, I'm running in a new car, and I'll push it a bit more as time goes on, but I don't care for the sound or the feel of a screaming engine any more than a labouring one.

Would you think I was slouch if I drove you around town? A professional travels driver, or one of these no-patience SUV drivers would, for sure. People leave me behind; I leave some behind. I don't drive hard, but nor do see any point in spending all day reaching the speed I intend to drive at.

I'm really not a techie in this area, but I think others have been saying that you get more real power by staying in the mid range of the engine RPM. Less drama, but more power.

It'd be an interesting experience for you to drive a goodauto transmission (a bad one feels sluggish and horrible): even if it has a 'sport' mode, it is going to change up way before you do. It wouldn't surprise me if it didn't achieve overall equal acceleration to your burn-it-up-in-first.

All theoretical, of course....
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Old 17th September 2007, 19:25   #53
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Originally Posted by doomsday View Post


I believe that engines are made to be revved and not slouched. Hence, whenever I am driving/riding, I make sure that I use what each gear has to offer before I move up the gearbox to the next. And of course I am paying for the fuel that I am "wasting". My sincere apologies to everyone who thinks that I am drinking up all the fuel in a day's commute what others might be able to use for a week's commute.

@Thad: No personal offence meant.

No offense. But let us know who pay the fuel bill? You (I am sure not since you are still student) or your father or some body else? Whoever is paying the bill , I am sure he/she dose not know what kind of R&D you are doing?
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Old 17th September 2007, 19:28   #54
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If you get wheel-spin on starting, you are simply wasting power. If you get it any other time.... well, you shouldn't surely? wheelspin means no grip, and no grip means dangerous.

Try to make the whole relationship between your engine and the road a s m o o t h one: I think you'll find it worthwhile!
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Old 17th September 2007, 19:51   #55
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Originally Posted by mclaren1885 View Post
Teg, as much as I appreciate your views on this topic I might have to disagree with you. I have seen many of these tests being carried out on empty, inhabited ring roads across the city where finding a single soul is difficult and there are a lot of professional drag guys who carry on these tests quite responsibly making sure they don't put anyone at harms way. Besides, if our Govt's were to promote the sport by putting up a drag strip/track I really don't think we would have to see any of this on public roads. And redlining in 1st gear is about 55kmph, which IMO is the speed even the bicycles ride in Bangalore .

The guy has a genuine question and is trying to find a technical answer to this. Last we need is pin pointing fingers here and derail the thread completely. NONE of us here are wall flowers, look around the top speed thread once to know what I mean.

Before you accuse me of the same, I DO drive my car and test its limits on Drag Strips by travelling all the way to Bombay and on tracks at Chennai & Coimbatore.
No offense , but I am finding that all the favorable comments (advocating this kind of so called R&D) are coming from student category of TEAM-bhpian who do not drive the vehicle form their hard earned money rather parent's money.

If people are doing all this kind of R&D with actual R&D purpose then it should be done in proper manner. I mean to say that what ever you are doing do with your own money or you are supposed to do that as professional task.

As far as coming into any thread from no where (as some one pointed out) is concerned, so let me tell, it is our duty as a committed and sincere TEAM-BHP member to stop this kind of childish act on public place.
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Old 17th September 2007, 20:16   #56
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Originally Posted by doomsday View Post
So I will re-phrase the question I put up in the pilot post. Why do the M800 and the Ikon wheelspin and squeal while shifting at the redline (almost), while the Baleno does not; even though the factors like road surface, shift time/style remains the same. Also mentioned is the fact that all three cars are running factory stock (including the rubber) and the odometer readings have been mentioned in post #4. Later I also wanted to know if these wheelspins/squeals are an indicator of how quick I am shifting, coz AFAIK I am shifting equally quick in all the three cars from my end. (i.e. not taking into consideration the mechanical factors like the gearbox throw and gear ratios)
So what actually causes these wheelspins? Is it the gearbox alone or another factor/combination of other factors mentioned earlier?

doomsday, I've been patiently watching. No further answers seem forthcoming to your very well re-phrased questions. Most of the posts are quite OT.
Many have expressed sentiments, some have openly expressed dis-approval.
But no real answers beyond what you have already been given. Is it still possible that some 'divine' explanation will suddenly make an appearance?
I doubt it. Almost all the factors responsible for wheelspin have been mentioned.
Wheelspin, in ANY circumstance, is undesirable.
Redlining an engine is not something people do with cars they have bought with hard earned money. Give us a 'sponsored' vehicle, we'll give it a workout that will send its pistons into geo-synchronous orbit.
And why your particular Baleno possibly does not do wheelspin has been covered.
Do these wheelspins indicate how fast you are shifting? No, they do not.
I think that all in all that is a pretty satisfying outcome.

Cheers!
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Old 17th September 2007, 23:51   #57
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Originally Posted by vivek_pinkoo View Post
No offense. But let us know who pay the fuel bill? You (I am sure not since you are still student) or your father or some body else? Whoever is paying the bill , I am sure he/she dose not know what kind of R&D you are doing?
Long time since I updated my profile. Infact never since I registered on TBHP. Bhpians who know me in Bangalore (I admit there are only a few) are aware that I was studying full time (7 hours college) and working full time as well (8 hours shift at a BPO) in order to make sure that I do not make any unreasonable demand on my parents to fuel (pun very much intended here) my passion for wheels.

Quote:
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No offense , but I am finding that all the favorable comments (advocating this kind of so called R&D) are coming from student category of TEAM-bhpian who do not drive the vehicle form their hard earned money rather parent's money.

If people are doing all this kind of R&D with actual R&D purpose then it should be done in proper manner. I mean to say that what ever you are doing do with your own money or you are supposed to do that as professional task.
As it is apeears from your post, you aren't even 0.001% aware of the R&D done by Rahul (mclaren1885). Fortunately, I am. And I know that it takes more than money to do all the said "R&D". So it be really be appreciated if you do not point fingers at other members before checking their credentials. Also case in point are other guys like v1p3r and binz who I know are pretty serious about what they are doing. So please avoid it.

Unfortunately, there is not much scope for people doing this kind of "R&D" here full time, professionaly as opposed to for instance, to the IT/BPO industry. So we are forced to settle with taking it up part time alongwith a regular job. If you have a "professional" opening someplace suited for us to do our R&D, please do let us know. I am sure we will be more than happy to obilige.

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Originally Posted by vivek_pinkoo View Post
As far as coming into any thread from no where (as some one pointed out) is concerned, so let me tell, it is our duty as a committed and sincere TEAM-BHP member to stop this kind of childish act on public place.
childish: Hmm.. this adjective is becoming rather common to describe anyone who wants to tinker with a set of wheels; test it to the limit and wants to know what makes it tick. I personally will be glad if we have more "children" like this among us.

Public place: I thought the forum was a place for the automobile enthusiatics to gather and discuss about what is our first love. Our car. Although to varing degrees, I admit.

That is what makes us different from the "public" for whom four/two wheels are just a mode of transport from point A to B. Thats all.

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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
If you get wheel-spin on starting, you are simply wasting power. If you get it any other time.... well, you shouldn't surely? wheelspin means no grip, and no grip means dangerous.

Try to make the whole relationship between your engine and the road a s m o o t h one: I think you'll find it worthwhile!
I very much admit that wheelspin while launching is wasting power/time. Any other time, well...thats another story. Any reasonably powerful car W/O traction control will wheelspin while shifting quick (which you do; since thats the point of having a powerful car) I will not go as far as the imports. An Esteem (with major Stage III mods, I think) at the last SR was wheelspinning upto 3rd gear. Nevertheless, he would have done better without them; but there are constraints to what even the best driver/car/tires can achieve.

No grip=dangerous. Yes, certainly dangerous if you don't know how to control it. If you want to know someone who can control these, look no further than one Keiichi Tsuchiya aka Dori Kin. Thats how you can control those "no grip" slides and translate them into ballet on wheels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vivekiny2k View Post
As i mentioned about the flywheel's usage in my earlier post, I think it's the engine running at a totally different speed than what the gear box has set up after the upshift, which causes the surge of power from the flywheel. of course it will be a short burst.

I had misread your first post, correcting it, "if you want to avoid the squeal, you shud look at synchronizing the engine speed to a speed appropriate for the next gear you are shifting to."
Point taken. But if I how do I go about synchronizing the engine speed to the speed appropriate for the next gear I am shifting to? Slower shifts or earlier shifts?

Last edited by doomsday : 18th September 2007 at 00:03. Reason: Missed vivekiny2k's post.
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Old 18th September 2007, 00:22   #58
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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
I'm really not a techie in this area, but I think others have been saying that you get more real power by staying in the mid range of the engine RPM. Less drama, but more power.
Yeah, very true. But mind you, power only for the gear that you are in. If you upshift as soon as your powerband, the revs will drop below where your powerband starts. Result: Wait until the engine gets into the powerband again.

On the other hand, shifting just before the redline: No dead revs- mind you (depends on the motor usually) and mostly your rev counter falls straight back into your powerband and you continue riding the power/torque curve rather than waiting for it to start all over again.

Doesn’t sound like it would make much of a difference and it would not, of course, on a public road or rather while commuting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
It'd be an interesting experience for you to drive a good auto transmission (a bad one feels sluggish and horrible): even if it has a 'sport' mode, it is going to change up way before you do. It wouldn't surprise me if it didn't achieve overall equal acceleration to your burn-it-up-in-first.
As you might expect: I hate auto boxes. And I am not saying so without even driving one. I have driven two of them: The City and the Santro and just the feeling of not having the clutch and the stick makes me stay off driving. Don't know about the figures, but rest assured I don't execute those burn-it-up-in-first as any one who knows the gas pedal from the clutch, will be able to execute them as well.

Last edited by doomsday : 18th September 2007 at 00:25.
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Old 18th September 2007, 01:10   #59
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I doubt that figure. The 800 doesn't do more than 30 even when pushed to the limits. I have a '97 Carb 800 and a Baleno. The Baleno does 50 at the redline in the first gear, I wonder how you were able to hit 35-40 in the 800.
Here you go Raghu; and anyone else who doubts the figures that I mentioned with the M800. I am not trying to prove anything but that I am sure about what figures I post on a forum like this.



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Old 18th September 2007, 01:52   #60
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Originally Posted by doomsday View Post
No grip=dangerous. Yes, certainly dangerous if you don't know how to control it. If you want to know someone who can control these, look no further than one Keiichi Tsuchiya aka Dori Kin. Thats how you can control those "no grip" slides and translate them into ballet on wheels.



Point taken. But if I how do I go about synchronizing the engine speed to the speed appropriate for the next gear I am shifting to? Slower shifts or earlier shifts?
Come on, that will start another debate. let's leave the ballet to the professionals

to sync your sped, be aware that upshift equires lower RPM. i am assuming your squeal is because of higher than expected RPM (opposed to lower). in which case, you shud start leaving the clutch when ur RPM is lower than previous gear.

Logically, Does it matter whether you leave it .1 seconds, or 10 seconds after gearshift?

I have done lots of experiments on my (father's) bajaj scooter going from 1st to 4th, or third or whatever....just keeping in mind that RPM is appropriate.

here, look at the last point. After I come back from fuel saving mode, I can restart in any gear without any loss of control.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...tml#post115273 (Does the fuel price hike affect your driving pattern?)

i can not quote any numbers because i had it all in my head.

The only goal was to save precious fossil fuel and my father's money, behind this circus.
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