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Old 15th September 2007, 10:25   #1
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Question Quick shifting, 1st to 2nd...

I don't get to drive very often, but whenever I do- I make sure I make 100% utilization of the time I get behind the wheel. This translates to redlining every gear (doesn't matter what car), especially from 1st to 2nd. (Mostly because thats all the shifting you can do while in the city here )

I noticed something rather recently. While driving a Baleno, shifting from 1st to 2nd, at ~6.5K RPM, it just kept on going without drama. However, when I shift using the same style in the Ikon (1.6 Petrol), from 1st to 2nd, the front wheels spin momentarily and give out a squeal. Gives me a kind of high, I admit, and makes me think I am shifting really quick.

However, the strangest part is that nowadays I also drive my friend's M800 ('98 4-speed carburettored version) and shift from 1st to 2nd quick enough (no tacho, hence shift between 35-40 kph on speedo), the front wheels spin momentarily and give out a squeal as well. Considering the power the 3 pot mill generates; I concluded the wheelspin+squeal was not determined by how powerful the car is.(Among these three cars, at least).

So what is the factor that leads to this phenomenon? I know that the Ikon has shorter gear ratios (when compared to the Baleno, don't know about the M800). I am guessing that gear ratios might have something to do with this; but I am not sure in what way. Can someone please throw light on this?

P.S. I went back and tried shifting real quick in the Baleno, but was unable to generate any wheelspin/squeals shifting from 1st to 2nd. All the three cars mentioned are in factory stock condition.
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Old 15th September 2007, 11:26   #2
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it all depends how u shift..but since it happens in the ikon and 800....how old is the clutch on the baleno...thats the only thing that comes to mind when u say u shift the same way in all three cars...

if the car has enough torque and ur good enough u can wheel spin from 2nd-3rd.
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Old 15th September 2007, 11:41   #3
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Good that you are screwing your friends cars only! But this is not good!

no offences meant!
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Old 15th September 2007, 11:48   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by revtech View Post
it all depends how u shift..but since it happens in the ikon and 800....how old is the clutch on the baleno...thats the only thing that comes to mind when u say u shift the same way in all three cars...

if the car has enough torque and ur good enough u can wheel spin from 2nd-3rd.
Okay. The clutches. All three cars are on the original clutches. The odo readings are: Baleno: 26,xxx km; Ikon 42,xxx km and M800 22,xxx km.

Considering these facts; the clutch condition will also depend on driving style. The Ikon has been abused the most; almost no launches without wheelspins (apart from setting away from home) followed by the Baleno; which is driven hard on and off; and lastly the M800 which has never seen such driving before in its lifetime of past 9 years.

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Originally Posted by panky12345 View Post
Good that you are screwing your friends cars only! But this is not good!

no offences meant!
I guess I didn't make myself clear enough. Baleno is my Dad's car, the Ikon is a friend's car who drives it pretty hard himself and doesn't mind me doing the same thing; and well the M800, I thought a workout was due for an engine which has never crossed 60 kph in its lifetime.
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Old 15th September 2007, 12:21   #5
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Tyres with better grip would also prevent wheelspin to some extent.
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Old 15th September 2007, 12:34   #6
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Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
Tyres with better grip would also prevent wheelspin to some extent.
If that is the case; we have to agree that the Baleno is the most undertired car; followed by the M800 and the lastly the Ikon (as I mentioned earlier, all cars are in factory stock condition including footwear). Therefore, the size of tires doesn't seem proportional to the amount of wheelspin/squeals while shifting.
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Old 15th September 2007, 13:01   #7
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OT: Do the experts here think that its necessary once a while for the car "work out". I hardly drive my car beyond 60 kmph (delhi traffic u see) and dont go over 80 kmph on the highways. If the experts think that once a while I should rev my 99K old engine, I'm open to it. Kindly suggest.
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Old 15th September 2007, 14:03   #8
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You're best off not giving a 'workout' to your engine! Faults might develop!
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Old 15th September 2007, 14:22   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doomsday View Post
I also drive my friend's M800 ('98 4-speed carburettored version) and shift from 1st to 2nd quick enough (no tacho, hence shift between 35-40 kph on speedo)
I doubt that figure. The 800 doesn't do more than 30 even when pushed to the limits. I have a '97 Carb 800 and a Baleno. The Baleno does 50 at the redline in the first gear, I wonder how you were able to hit 35-40 in the 800.
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Old 15th September 2007, 14:29   #10
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The spring back action of the clutch in baleno would not be as fast as the other cars , depends on how long the clutch is used , and also the distance between the 1st and the 2nd gear throw (how short the shift is) , and may be also due to the age of the tyres , tread pattern , power at the wheels , type of road (cemented road will give you a better wheelspin , and less traction) .... Well if you want to experience the same in the baleno then , try this ;
After Red-lining(@ about 60 km/h) the 1st gear when you are shifting to the 2nd , dont leave the clutch suddenly , but 1st floor the gas pedal and then leave the clutch after that , and not simultaneously .... TRY IT ! Anyway , WE HAVE A NICE THREAD OUT HERE !

Last edited by karan561 : 15th September 2007 at 14:32.
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Old 15th September 2007, 17:45   #11
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'doomsday'.

Err, yes, quite.

Red-lining the car in city driving is daft. I hope you pay for the fuel you're wasting?

It reminds me of a story I was told by a UK driving instructor. A guy comes to him, never admitted he'd been driving without a licence for years, but the instructor reckoned he must have that much experience. But was his driving good? The instructor told him, "You've shown me you can drive fast; if you want me to, I can teach you how to drive properly"!
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Old 16th September 2007, 00:09   #12
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Post Clarifications...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rocksterraghu View Post
I doubt that figure. The 800 doesn't do more than 30 even when pushed to the limits. I have a '97 Carb 800 and a Baleno. The Baleno does 50 at the redline in the first gear, I wonder how you were able to hit 35-40 in the 800.
I understand you are doubting my figures. So a video should will be able to sort this out. Will try uploading it ASAP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by karan561 View Post
The spring back action of the clutch in baleno would not be as fast as the other cars , depends on how long the clutch is used , and also the distance between the 1st and the 2nd gear throw (how short the shift is)
Now that is the first clarification that has set me thinking. Didn't think about the spring back action. Good one.

However, as far as the gearbox throw is concerned, the M800 has the longest one. So I guess that doesn't figure as a factor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by karan561 View Post
may be also due to the age of the tyres , tread pattern , power at the wheels , type of road (cemented road will give you a better wheelspin , and less traction) ....
As I had mentioned earlier, all three vehicles are in factory stock condition including the tires (all are on their first set). So technically speaking the Ikon's tires are the most worn out ones, followed by the M800's which although have less mileage on them than the Baleno, but being cross-ply type end up with lesser grip. The Baleno's tires are in the best condition. So here is another fact which seems to be directly proportional to the amount of wheelspin/squeals occurring.

Quote:
Originally Posted by karan561 View Post
Well if you want to experience the same in the baleno then , try this ;
After Red-lining(@ about 60 km/h) the 1st gear when you are shifting to the 2nd , dont leave the clutch suddenly , but 1st floor the gas pedal and then leave the clutch after that , and not simultaneously!
I did not want to experience it, just because of the accompanied sound effects- but because it seemed to provide me a feedback on how fast I was shifting. The method you are suggesting is termed as "double clutching": the only difference being that the gas pedal is not floored but tapped gently to reduce the dropping in revs while upshifting. Doing so while shifting from first to second where the engine is almost redlining is not recommended. In addition to that you will actually lose out time while shifting. I just want to shift quick. Although sound effects etc. are acceptable if they are a bye-product of quick shifting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
'doomsday'.

Err, yes, quite.

Red-lining the car in city driving is daft. I hope you pay for the fuel you're wasting?
I believe that engines are made to be revved and not slouched. Hence, whenever I am driving/riding, I make sure that I use what each gear has to offer before I move up the gearbox to the next. And of course I am paying for the fuel that I am "wasting". My sincere apologies to everyone who thinks that I am drinking up all the fuel in a day's commute what others might be able to use for a week's commute.

@Thad: No personal offence meant.
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Old 16th September 2007, 01:04   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doomsday View Post
I don't get to drive very often, but whenever I do- I make sure I make 100% utilization of the time I get behind the wheel. This translates to redlining every gear (doesn't matter what car), especially from 1st to 2nd. (Mostly because thats all the shifting you can do while in the city here )

I noticed something rather recently. While driving a Baleno, shifting from 1st to 2nd, at ~6.5K RPM, it just kept on going without drama. However, when I shift using the same style in the Ikon (1.6 Petrol), from 1st to 2nd, the front wheels spin momentarily and give out a squeal. Gives me a kind of high, I admit, and makes me think I am shifting really quick.

However, the strangest part is that nowadays I also drive my friend's M800 ('98 4-speed carburettored version) and shift from 1st to 2nd quick enough (no tacho, hence shift between 35-40 kph on speedo), the front wheels spin momentarily and give out a squeal as well. Considering the power the 3 pot mill generates; I concluded the wheelspin+squeal was not determined by how powerful the car is.(Among these three cars, at least).

So what is the factor that leads to this phenomenon? I know that the Ikon has shorter gear ratios (when compared to the Baleno, don't know about the M800). I am guessing that gear ratios might have something to do with this; but I am not sure in what way. Can someone please throw light on this?

P.S. I went back and tried shifting real quick in the Baleno, but was unable to generate any wheelspin/squeals shifting from 1st to 2nd. All the three cars mentioned are in factory stock condition.
When u shift u clutch , shift and then leave the clutch rapidly but u also step on the gas hard milliseconds before u leave the clutch hard.So this causes the engine rpm to rise .Maybe in the 800 and the ikon it rises at a little higher rate than the baleno and hence the screech.

Also the gear ratio of the 800 is pretty short.So the distance between 1 nd 2nd gear is not that vast as in cars like the esteem so thats why it has the capacity to spin the wheels in 2nd gear momentairly.
This is my personal opinion and correct me if i wrong.
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Old 16th September 2007, 06:31   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doomsday View Post

I just want to shift quick. Although sound effects etc. are acceptable if they are a bye-product of quick shifting.

pardon my ignorance, but what is the intention behind that? do you get a higher speed at the end of this ordeal?

EDIT: just wanted to make sure you know red line is in RED for a reason.

Last edited by vivekiny2k : 16th September 2007 at 06:32.
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Old 16th September 2007, 06:36   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panky12345 View Post
OT: Do the experts here think that its necessary once a while for the car "work out". I hardly drive my car beyond 60 kmph (delhi traffic u see) and dont go over 80 kmph on the highways. If the experts think that once a while I should rev my 99K old engine, I'm open to it. Kindly suggest.
panky, some think that it's a good idea to do it once in a while, to make sure engine keeps working to the limits it's supposed to .

e.g. the speedo may develop rust after 60kph and may not work smoothly when needed to go past 60 kmph one day

But even humans take doctors advice before doing a workout, when past their 40s. cars are only machine. they need more care since they can't heal themselves.
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