Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Technical Stuff


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 23rd January 2014, 20:44   #31
Distinguished - BHPian
 
a4anurag's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 8,674
Thanked: 10,964 Times
Default Re: Humming sound in WagonR.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherlocked View Post
The clutch was overhauled recently at MASS and the car has run just 400 kms post the clutch O/H. They changed the clutch plate, pressure plate, clutch release bearing, clutch cable and some seals both right and left side. They didn't change the flywheel though, said it's in perfect condition.

Guys any pointers what is this noise as I will only be able to take car to MASS on Saturday and I also don't want the SA to take me for a ride.
Is it due to a bad clutch job?
Isn't it recommended to change the flywheel when getting the whole clutch parts changed to be on the safer side?

Anurag.
a4anurag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd January 2014, 23:43   #32
Senior - BHPian
 
rajeev k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Emerging Metro
Posts: 3,290
Thanked: 1,669 Times
Default Re: Humming sound in WagonR.

Quote:
Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
Isn't it recommended to change the flywheel when getting the whole clutch parts changed to be on the safer side?
Not at all necessary to change the flywheel if the fly wheel is OK and the teeth are not worn out. The replacement is warranted even if there is lesser wear because it can avoid another gear box lowering too soon.
rajeev k is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 25th January 2014, 08:39   #33
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Jaipur
Posts: 335
Thanked: 588 Times
Infractions: 0/2 (10)
Default Re: Issues with WagonR

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vikki@Hyderabad View Post
Guess you've already had it checked by MASS. Was the issue fixed?

IMO it is a bad job overhauling the clutch, and I bet it wasn't there before the overhaul. And it definitely is not the bearings as these make noise only when on the move. And it could also be that this noise would disappear over a period of time as the new plates set in.
I took the car to MASS and they identified it as a clutch bearing noise and said I have to leave the car for full day and they will inspect the whole clutch work done. On that day, it was already afternoon so I asked him if it is ok if I bring the car some other day and will it cause any more harm to any component to which they said it will cause no harm.
The next day noise disappeared on its own and since then I am not able to spare time to take it to MASS. But will take it most probably next weekend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
Isn't it recommended to change the flywheel when getting the whole clutch parts changed to be on the safer side?

Anurag.
The mechanic along with one of their senior supervisor assured me that the flywheel is perfectly fine and had I driven more on the previous clutch plates then the flywheel would have worn out.
But as a preventive measure, I should have insisted them on replacing. A mistake on my part.

Guys, what are the symptoms of a worn out fly wheel?
Sherlocked is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th January 2014, 17:34   #34
Distinguished - BHPian
 
a4anurag's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 8,674
Thanked: 10,964 Times
Default Re: Issues with WagonR

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherlocked View Post
But as a preventive measure, I should have insisted them on replacing. A mistake on my part.

Guys, what are the symptoms of a worn out fly wheel?
I wont say it is a mistake if the flywheel is not replaced but it is recommended when you change the clutch as they work like hand-in-hand.

If your advisor has inspected and said that the flywheel is why, why worry and repair the stuff that ain't broken.

If the flywheel is worn out, may be grinding or slippage will be noticed.

Anurag.
a4anurag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th January 2014, 19:32   #35
Newbie
 
pzkfg6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chennai
Posts: 10
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

It could be release bearing since the noise vanishes while depressing the clutch. Common problem seen in old ambys and even in used imported units. No harm until the noise gets worse.
pzkfg6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th February 2014, 13:14   #36
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Jaipur
Posts: 335
Thanked: 588 Times
Infractions: 0/2 (10)
Default Re: Humming sound in WagonR.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherlocked View Post
Hey Guys some help required for our 2004 WagonR. Car has done just 44K kms.

There is a hummm type of noise coming inside the cabin whenever the engine is on. It vanishes when I depress the clutch. This noise also comes while the car is moving.
Humming increases if I rev the car in neutral while stationary. The noise is not loud.


The clutch was overhauled recently at MASS and the car has run just 400 kms post the clutch O/H. They changed the clutch plate, pressure plate, clutch release bearing, clutch cable and some seals both right and left side. They didn't change the flywheel though, said it's in perfect condition.

Guys any pointers what is this noise as I will only be able to take car to MASS on Saturday and I also don't want the SA to take me for a ride.
Is it due to a bad clutch job?

Thanks.
UPDATE:
I left the car today morning at MASS for the above issue. The SA called me just now and said the noise is coming even after changing the clutch and flywheel bearings so now they have concluded that it is due to some issues in Gearbox of the car. He was asking my permission to open the gearbox and the exact cause will be known only after that.
As for the estimates, he said the labour on the gearbox job might be around 2K and as for the parts he can't say. He also said the whole job will take around 4-5 days so as of now I told him not to open the gearbox.

Guys, what to do? I am in a fix. Has anybody ever faced issues like this.
Help
Sherlocked is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th February 2014, 14:27   #37
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Belur/Bangalore
Posts: 3,689
Thanked: 8,464 Times
Default Re: Humming sound in WagonR.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherlocked View Post
UPDATE:
He was asking my permission to open the gearbox and the exact cause will be known only after that.
As for the estimates, he said the labour on the gearbox job might be around 2K and as for the parts he can't say. He also said the whole job will take around 4-5 days so as of now I told him not to open the gearbox.

Guys, what to do? I am in a fix. Has anybody ever faced issues like this.
Help
He is right. If Flywheel bearing hasn't helped much I too suspect the input shaft bearing as the culprit.

You could do this:

Take in on the open road and drive at certain RPMs (say 3000) and release the throttle and depress the clutch for a few seconds while moving in a particular gear and more likely the noise should vanish.

My WagonR has a very light humming that comes exactly around 3300 RPM (85-90KMPH) and vanishes before or after this and it started only in the last 25000 kms (when the ODO was around 1,90,000kms) but I have written this off as its not much of a bother as the below work-around always helped me.

What I do regularly is add Bardahl Gearbox oil additive along with the fresh transmission/Gear oil. It makes a lot of difference and helps keep this in control.

If you don't want to replace the gearbox oil, you could still add this additive (apprx 300ml) by other means into the gearbox.

Opening the factory Gearbox is something that I also wouldn't recommend if adding the additive is going to bring the difference.

Please do this first and let us know if that made a difference.

Last edited by paragsachania : 7th February 2014 at 14:28.
paragsachania is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 7th February 2014, 19:19   #38
BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 178
Thanked: 144 Times
Default Re: Issues with WagonR

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherlocked View Post
UPDATE:
I left the car today morning at MASS for the above issue. The SA called me just now and said the noise is coming even after changing the clutch and flywheel bearings so now they have concluded that it is due to some issues in Gearbox of the car. He was asking my permission to open the gearbox and the exact cause will be known only after that.
Guys, what to do? I am in a fix. Has anybody ever faced issues like this.
Help
Quote:
Originally Posted by paragsachania View Post
You could do this:
Take in on the open road and drive at certain RPMs (say 3000) and release the throttle and depress the clutch for a few seconds while moving in a particular gear and more likely the noise should vanish.
Just a slight modification to the above suggestion by Parag- Take in on the road and drive at any speed when the humming is audible, press the clutch and shift to neutral, turn off the engine, let the car coast in neutral and check for humming noise 1.When the clutch is engaged 2.When the clutch is disengaged.(The gear must be in neutral)

This should give you a clear idea about the source of the humming noise.
I have seen few cars to produce humming noise only when the engine is running and the clutch pedal is not depressed.
interc00led is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 8th February 2014, 15:06   #39
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Jaipur
Posts: 335
Thanked: 588 Times
Infractions: 0/2 (10)
Default Re: Issues with WagonR

Quote:
Originally Posted by paragsachania View Post
He is right. If Flywheel bearing hasn't helped much I too suspect the input shaft bearing as the culprit.
The problem is the SA is not saying that only the input shaft bearing is faulty. He is saying that they will open the gearbox, examine each and every part and then make a list, then procure the parts from their workshop or from the Gurgaon factory if needed.
They said that within the gearbox, there are around 15 bearings present and anyone or more than one here could be at fault. And not only the bearings. other parts might also be replaced.

The fact that they are not able to commit or track down the problem to a single part is leaving me in doubts.
Is it some money making trick? Who knows.

This gearbox noise only started coming few days after the clutch job, so I can't rule out the possibility that it is caused due to their mechanic's stupidity. However they said that they didn't touched the gearbox during the clutch overhaul. But I saw the mechanic who was bringing my car from the workshop to the exit gate was slotting the gears literally like he is operating a hand pump, very harshly. My mistake I didn't brought this to the Manager back on that day. Can it be the cause of the gearbox noise problem?


Quote:
You could do this:

Take in on the open road and drive at certain RPMs (say 3000) and release the throttle and depress the clutch for a few seconds while moving in a particular gear and more likely the noise should vanish.
I tried this but nothing happened. The noise kept on coming.

Quote:
My WagonR has a very light humming that comes exactly around 3300 RPM (85-90KMPH) and vanishes before or after this and it started only in the last 25000 kms
In my case, the noise comes as soon as the engine is started. Noise comes even in neutral and increases when I rev the engine so in my case, this noise is present irrespective of the RPM but it increases with the increased RPM. Only when the clutch pedal is pressed then only noise goes and comes back again when I release the pedal.

Quote:
What I do regularly is add Bardahl Gearbox oil additive along with the fresh transmission/Gear oil. It makes a lot of difference and helps keep this in control.

If you don't want to replace the gearbox oil, you could still add this additive (apprx 300ml) by other means into the gearbox.
Please do this first and let us know if that made a difference.
Will try this but the problem is, a nutcase like me doesn't even know from where we put the transmission oil.


Another thing, when I asked the SA what if I leave the problem as it is, will it cause any more harm to the Gearbox or any other component to which he said nothing will go wrong, only the noise will get worsened with the passage of time.
Is he right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by interc00led View Post
Just a slight modification to the above suggestion by Parag
Will try this. Thanks.

Quote:
I have seen few cars to produce humming noise only when the engine is running and the clutch pedal is not depressed.
Yes, its the same in my car also.

Last edited by Sherlocked : 8th February 2014 at 15:22.
Sherlocked is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th February 2014, 22:08   #40
BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 178
Thanked: 144 Times
Default Re: Issues with WagonR

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherlocked View Post

This gearbox noise only started coming few days after the clutch job, so I can't rule out the possibility that it is caused due to their mechanic's stupidity. However they said that they didn't touched the gearbox during the clutch overhaul. But I saw the mechanic who was bringing my car from the workshop to the exit gate was slotting the gears literally like he is operating a hand pump, very harshly. My mistake I didn't brought this to the Manager back on that day. Can it be the cause of the gearbox noise problem?

In my case, the noise comes as soon as the engine is started. Noise comes even in neutral and increases when I rev the engine so in my case, this noise is present irrespective of the RPM but it increases with the increased RPM. Only when the clutch pedal is pressed then only noise goes and comes back again when I release the pedal.

Another thing, when I asked the SA what if I leave the problem as it is, will it cause any more harm to the Gearbox or any other component to which he said nothing will go wrong, only the noise will get worsened with the passage of time.
Is he right?
Can you record the sound(or a video) and upload it here ?
Ask a FNG mechanic to check the transmission side engine mount,bell-housing bolts which attach the GB to engine, gear shifter linkage/cable, gear lever bushes and for any vertical play in the gear lever.

Is it audible more in the cabin or under the hood ?

Last edited by interc00led : 8th February 2014 at 22:10.
interc00led is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 8th February 2014, 22:24   #41
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Jaipur
Posts: 335
Thanked: 588 Times
Infractions: 0/2 (10)
Default Re: Issues with WagonR

Quote:
Originally Posted by interc00led View Post
Is it audible more in the cabin or under the hood ?
I have to first hunt for a reputed FNG here in Jaipur.
The noise comes only inside the cabin. Will try recording a video or a decent sound clip tomorrow. Thanks.
Sherlocked is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th February 2014, 22:36   #42
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Jaipur
Posts: 335
Thanked: 588 Times
Infractions: 0/2 (10)
Default Re: Issues with WagonR

This noise is maximum when the engine is cold and reduces by around 50% after 10-12 kms of driving and is not that much audible. Will record a video tomorrow.
Gurus, what do you think, should I allow MASS to open my WagonR's gearbox and be prepared to shell out 6-7K for this noise or leave it just like that.
If it is indeed a Input Shaft Bearing will it cause further damage to the GB if left unattended?
Kindly advice.
Sherlocked is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th February 2014, 10:23   #43
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Belur/Bangalore
Posts: 3,689
Thanked: 8,464 Times
Default Re: Issues with WagonR

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherlocked View Post
If it is indeed a Input Shaft Bearing will it cause further damage to the GB if left unattended?
Kindly advice.
Depends on the level of noise. Also if the noise further transforms to vibrations at higher revs and if that is an unpleasant experience.

If you notice what I responded earlier, the humming noise in my WagonR is only at a particular RPM with the gear engaged and clutch not in use around 3300 RPM (in any gear for that matter).

It vanishes below or after 3300RPMs. The ASC was very honest in advising me that it was a smarter call in not opening a company assembled gearbox on a car which has done 215000kms now and running smoother that one could think off.

Adding the GB Oil additive made a lot of difference and I am sticking to that since then. May be you should give that a try than getting the gearbox opened.

Now that you mention that the noise is more when the engine is cold, remember that the idle RPMs in the F10D in cold starts can be anything from 1500-2100 for a while till the oil attains an operating temperature. That translates to the fact that the noise is prevalent at higher RPMs (?).

I would suggest a cost effective trial and error method here before opening the gearbox - The GB oil in this case.

Also, check for tension on Alternator (6-7mm) and Water Pump (8-9mm) Belts too. Severely tight belt can put load on Alternator bearing as well.
paragsachania is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 11th February 2014, 16:27   #44
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Jaipur
Posts: 335
Thanked: 588 Times
Infractions: 0/2 (10)
Default Re: Issues with WagonR

Quote:
Originally Posted by paragsachania View Post

I would suggest a cost effective trial and error method here before opening the gearbox - The GB oil in this case.

Also, check for tension on Alternator (6-7mm) and Water Pump (8-9mm) Belts too. Severely tight belt can put load on Alternator bearing as well.
Thanks Sir. Will try these. The noise does bother when the engine is cold. I hope the video which I have made of the problem and posted below will help you identify the exact cause.

--------


Guys, I have uploaded the video. kindly see it and advice.
Also notice the squeaking clutch pedal noise. So now I have 2 alien sounds in the car cabin . Kindly advice on the same. The sound in the video might be low so kindly use some earphones.
Thanks.


Last edited by Sherlocked : 11th February 2014 at 16:28.
Sherlocked is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th February 2014, 19:12   #45
Distinguished - BHPian
 
a4anurag's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 8,674
Thanked: 10,964 Times
Default Re: Issues with WagonR

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherlocked View Post
Guys, I have uploaded the video. kindly see it and advice.
Also notice the squeaking clutch pedal noise. So now I have 2 alien sounds in the car cabin
The clutch squeak looks if the movement is not lubricated and is dry or the spring is rusted. Any oily could get rid of that kind of squeak.

I guess the belts in the engine are near worn out or are completely worn out. Do have a look and see if the problem solves.

Anurag
a4anurag is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Maruti WagonR over Hyundai Eon? EDIT : Bought WagonR with ABS / Airbags BoneCollector Hatchbacks 35 22nd May 2015 11:49
Only a WagonR can replace a WagonR ! From F10D to K10B.. DCEite Test-Drives & Initial Ownership Reports 27 19th April 2014 23:02
WagonR or Swift?(calling swift and wagonR owners) rajshenoy Hatchbacks 43 29th March 2007 09:54


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 16:29.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks