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Old 29th September 2007, 22:43   #1
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Default Maruti Zen MIL is on

Well, my car is due for service. Its been a long time(i guess around an year or so) since its serviced and its due for an engine oil change. I kept postponing things and suddenly today, the MIL amber light turned on the whole day and as expected i am a bit tensed. I dont have experience in cars as much as computers so I need you guys help. Is it normal for the Engine MIL to glow if the engine oil has not been changed for a long long time? I searched for some information on this but could not find it.Any help Appreciated

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Old 30th September 2007, 01:23   #2
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Is it yours a euro2 or 3?
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Old 30th September 2007, 05:39   #3
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Don't worry too much abt it, just take it to any of the Maruti Authorized Service center and they will do the rest for you.. but do it immediatly or it will throw up a string of never ending problems...

And i would you suggest to you that you make use of the RNS Motors Express Service facility(where in they do a regular service as per the book in under two hours), as you seem to be a very busy person.

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Old 30th September 2007, 09:42   #4
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If the engine oil has not been changed in a long long time, then chances are that you are in deeper trouble than you think you are. Has the power on the car dropped? That should give an indication on whether there is any signs of wear on the engine. Did you notice any white smoke belching out of the exhaust?

Mostly it could be as simple as a loose connection on one of the sensors. Or a conked off O2 sensor. But it is advised that you get to the nearest Maruti dealership and run a Tech II scan asap. It should if any throw up the problems & possible solutions.
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Old 30th September 2007, 10:10   #5
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Do an ecu reset. See if it helps. And get the car to the service and check the error codes. Time to get the car serviced as well.
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Old 30th September 2007, 10:53   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mclaren1885 View Post
If the engine oil has not been changed in a long long time, then chances are that you are in deeper trouble than you think you are. Has the power on the car dropped? That should give an indication on whether there is any signs of wear on the engine. Did you notice any white smoke belching out of the exhaust?
Yes if engine oil is not changed for a long time it will cause damage to the engine but it is physically noticed when the engine power drops, but it will not cause the damage to what extent you have specified until and unless the oil filter is completely out of operation and then the oil flow is disrupted and then the unthinkable is to be expected and white smoke form the exhaust is when oil is getting burnt in high quantites during the combustion or bang stroke in the cylinder, that happens when
1. Any of the Valve has bent or given way.
2. When the piston rings are very badly worn or do not exist.
3. The unthinkable the piston is cracked or there is a hole blown in it(cos of DRY STARTS, by the way if a piston is blown there is 80% chances that there will be a nice hole in the lower block too and it will be one big mess with the engine internals).
Quote:
Originally Posted by mclaren1885 View Post
Mostly it could be as simple as a loose connection on one of the sensors. Or a conked off O2 sensor. But it is advised that you get to the nearest Maruti dealership and run a Tech II scan asap. It should if any throw up the problems & possible solutions.
Sure if the O2 sensor's wiring is loose or its completely knocked off or if the EGR is out(for that case any sensor or major control relay in the engine bay), the MIL will show, and you car will go into limp mode.
By the way the TechII is a scan tool or a diagnostic equipment that has limited features to work with the ecu, it will in no way give you any solutions, by the way it will give you error codes starting with an E*** or P*** (ex E0001 or P0001) which means that there is something wrong in the engine managnent system or its related sensors, it will not tell you what is physically conked in the engine that will have to be done physically by a mech under the guidence of a techinician.
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Old 30th September 2007, 11:12   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rohan_fonseca View Post
Do an ecu reset. See if it helps. And get the car to the service
Mr Rohan Fonesca please dont give such WRONG advice to people. Get your basic right before screwing up other people.
What do you mean if it helps ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rohan_fonseca View Post
and check the error codes. Time to get the car serviced as well.
DONT ever reset the ECU when you have a MIL on.
What will the service station diagnose if you reset the ECU ? The ECU will have to undergo "n" number of drive cycles to again trigger a DTC and activate a corrsponding MIL before the service station will be able to do something about it.
People with half knowledge reset their ECU, go to service station and then blame the service station for not detecting the problem.
Did you get it now ?

Get the car service straightaway , "get it serviced as well is totally incorrect" , get it serviced ASAP

Where are the mods when you need them OR are the moderators there for only handing out infractions for correcting "Spelling mistakes, typos" and "Personal attacks" ?
This is not the 1st time mods have not intervened ..I have seen in some earlier threads ..people advising crap and no one cares.
I think this post of mine will get deleted for too many "dots" or too many "smileys"
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Old 30th September 2007, 11:31   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khimera View Post
Well, my car is due for service. Its been a long time(i guess around an year or so) since its serviced and its due for an engine oil change. I kept postponing things and suddenly today, the MIL amber light turned on the whole day and as expected i am a bit tensed. I dont have experience in cars as much as computers so I need you guys help. Is it normal for the Engine MIL to glow if the engine oil has not been changed for a long long time?
A lot depends on how many kms your car has done in that one year, and under what conditions. With dusty, dirty road conditions and a lot of city driving (with frequent idling at signals, etc.) oil change is recommended every 5000 kms or, I think, 6 months. But wihen I had a Maruti 800 in Bangalore, the Mandovi Motors service engineer asked me to bring the car in only after it has done 5000 kms, never mind if it takes more than a year! I told him that is not what I understood from the manual, but he replied that the modern engine oils degrade very slowly and you can use them for even up to 2 years! I think that is wrong, and the Hyundai engineers have also advised me not to delay beyond 6 months for oil change. Probably the Maruti sevice guys were swamped at that stage and were discouraging people from bringing in the car for routine service.
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Old 30th September 2007, 12:07   #9
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@Chetanhanda: Thanks for the headsup. Am not in this forum to screw up anybody. Am here as most people to learn and share my own experiences albeit very limited. Thats why when there is a wrong piece of advise given, there are people with a good bit of know how in this forum to correct that. And i beleive that you are one amongst those people. Although there might be more polite ways of doing so.
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Old 30th September 2007, 13:39   #10
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I have run around 6000 kms in past one year. No, i did not notice any drop in the power of the car, but the engine surely is making a bit more noise than the usual but this noise started gradually. It is like normal engine sound, but sounds louder( I dunno whether not changing the engine oil creates that problem) Today is a Sunday so tomorrow, i am giving it for service. What I am worried about is, being conned by the Maruti service centres, Say if it was a simple loose connection in 02 sensor, will they ask me to replace the O2 sensor itself? Some small time tool to recognize the problem would have been good. I will get the engine oil changed. Lets see what the folks at maruti centre say. Thanks for all the help
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Old 30th September 2007, 13:44   #11
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Mohnish, the user here has mentioned that he hasn't changed the engine oil for a "long long" time. So I am assuming this might have done some damage. Yes, power drop is detrimental, but has our friend here found any drop in performance? Maybe there might be a drop in performance, that the owner might have failed to notice. Hence I brought up that topic.

As far as the Tech II is concerned, I know what it does. It shows specific error codes and when I mean possible solutions I mean with the readings from the Tech II you can identify which sensor is malfunctioning or needs to be attended too. I was mentioning problems related to electronics (which mostly must be the case in this situation) and not mechanical. And FYI, malfunction of the O2 sensor DOES NOT send the car into LIMP MODE. I know because I ran it fine for a couple of months without the O2 sensor & the EGR. Maruti ECU's are quite rudimentary.
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Old 30th September 2007, 14:14   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khimera View Post
I have run around 6000 kms in past one year. No, i did not notice any drop in the power of the car, but the engine surely is making a bit more noise than the usual but this noise started gradually. It is like normal engine sound, but sounds louder( I dunno whether not changing the engine oil creates that problem) Today is a Sunday so tomorrow, i am giving it for service. What I am worried about is, being conned by the Maruti service centres, Say if it was a simple loose connection in 02 sensor, will they ask me to replace the O2 sensor itself?
I think your engine will be fine with only 6000 kms of running since last oil change. Good that you are giving the car immediately for service.

My sincere advice is do not question the judgement of the authorized Maruti service centre, unless you have some basis for doubting their competence or sincerity. You will only end up losing their good faith if you doubt them without basis. The point is that in these matters you have to play safe and go by their recommendations, or else you might end up paying a heavy price later on. If you had the time and the inclination, you could develop some expertise yourself and then have some basis for doubting their judgement. At this point, it is just not worth it; let them pinch some money, in the long run your car will be fine and that is what counts.
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Old 30th September 2007, 14:49   #13
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Here is a website that addresses some of the concerns raised:

Check Engine Light

As can be seen from the quote below, there could be any number of reasons for why the MIL comes on and the diagnosis requires expertise. It is best to leave that to the authorized Maruti service centre.

By the way, the "Check Engine" lamp (MIL) bulb has been removed by Hyundai in my Santro. Apparently this light was coming on frequently in the models manufactured in 2000 and the customers were rushing to the service centres in panic.

Quote:
The Check Engine Light can be annoying because it seems to have a mind of its own. The Check Engine Light also tells you nothing about the problem. It might be something serious - or it might not. There is no way to know until you diagnose the vehicle. So you don't know if you should stop immediately or ignore the Check Engine Light and keep on driving.
If no other warning lights are on, and the engine seems to be running normally (no unusual noises, smells, vibrations, etc.), you can assume the fault that is causing the Check Engine Light to come on is probably minor and won't hinder your ability to continue driving. But if other warning lights are on, you should stop and investigate the problem.

When the Check Engine Light comes on, a diagnostic (DTC) is recorded in the on-board computer memory that corresponds to the fault. Some problems can generate more than one trouble code, and some vehicles may have multiple problems that set multiple trouble codes.
[...]

UNDERSTANDING DIAGNOSTIC TROUBLE CODES
A misfire will cause the Check Engine Light to flash while the misfire is occurring. A misfire that occurs in a given cylinder will also set a P030X code where "X" will be the number of the cylinder that is misfiring. For example, a P0302 code would tell you cylinder number two is misfiring. But here's the important point: The code does not tell you why the cylinder is misfiring. You have to figure that out by performing other diagnostic tests. The misfire might be due to a fouled spark plug, a bad plug wire, a defective ignition coil in a DIS ignition system, a clogged or dead fuel injector or a loss of compression due to a leaky exhaust valve, leaky head gasket or worn cam lobe.

OBD II monitors the operating efficiency of the catalytic converter with a second oxygen sensor in the tailpipe behind the converter. By comparing upstream and downstream O2 sensor readings, it can determine how well the converter is doing its job. If converter efficiency drops below a certain threshold, OBD II will set a code and turn on the Check Engine Light.

OBD II can detect fuel vapor leaks (evaporative emissions) in the charcoal canister, evap plumbing or fuel tank by pressurizing or pulling a vacuum on the fuel system. If the gas cap is loose or missing, it will detect it, set a code and turn on the Check Engine Light.

Last edited by rks : 30th September 2007 at 14:56.
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Old 30th September 2007, 15:50   #14
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Rahul any malfunctioning sensor or circuitry associated with the engine management system if it fails will put the ecu into limp come what may, that is the save the rest method, but if you still keep pushing it what do you expect and limp mode does not mean that it will cut off everything on older ecu's it just means it follows the basic yes-no(on-off or 1-0) method of processing data it recives and shows an error for what data it is not reciving. There is a reason that light on the dash comes on and if you do not follow what you are supposed to do when that happens, well what more should I have to say.
And yes pls don't ever make the mistake of resetting an ecu when the MIL or Engine Check Light is on.

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Old 30th September 2007, 23:23   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mclaren1885 View Post
Mohnish, the user here has mentioned that he hasn't changed the engine oil for a "long long" time. So I am assuming this might have done some damage. Yes, power drop is detrimental, but has our friend here found any drop in performance? Maybe there might be a drop in performance, that the owner might have failed to notice. Hence I brought up that topic.

As far as the Tech II is concerned, I know what it does. It shows specific error codes and when I mean possible solutions I mean with the readings from the Tech II you can identify which sensor is malfunctioning or needs to be attended too. I was mentioning problems related to electronics (which mostly must be the case in this situation) and not mechanical. And FYI, malfunction of the O2 sensor DOES NOT send the car into LIMP MODE. I know because I ran it fine for a couple of months without the O2 sensor & the EGR. Maruti ECU's are quite rudimentary.
Mclaren, that was exactly what i was hinting at when i asked wether it was a euro2 or 3 zen. Noticed that euro2 zen doesn't even throw on the MIL light on o2 sensor malfunction. And it doesn't go into limp mode. No errors as well. Remember having this discussion with you earlier as well.
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