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Old 15th November 2007, 01:13   #1
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Cool Bio-diesel

Hey Gurus..
I Own A New Safari 2.2 Ex.. I Was Wondering Whether I Should Get Bio-diesel Blended Fuel Filled In My Car To Increase Performance And Mileage...
What Say ????????
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Old 15th November 2007, 09:23   #2
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Tata Motors warranty will become void if you use fuel that does not conform to specifications. Till such time as Bio Diesel does not become available in the petrol stations, I would advise against using in a new vehicle during the warranty period. Otherwise, using the Bio-Diesel (optimal belnd B20, or 20% belnded with diesel) will give you best results. Mileage is unlikley to improve much, although emission levels will fall drastically with that blend.

Where are you getting the Bio-Diesel from?
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Old 11th April 2008, 12:21   #3
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Biodiesel Mythbuster 2.0: Twenty-Two Biodiesel Myths Dispelled : Gas 2.0
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Old 11th April 2008, 14:08   #4
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did you wonder why the price of food is going up? its partly because farmland and farm produce is being diverted to make biofuels. and the actual process of producing a biofuel is more polluting than using a mineral based fuel9taking into account (energy needs, the pesticides,irrigation etc)

performance will not increase. there may be a marginal drop.

dont know about mileage.

morally, the practice of using biodiesel is reprehensible IMO.

PS- sorry for being so preachy
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Old 11th April 2008, 14:10   #5
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I have done some professional work on Biodiesel, and to add to the excellent article that jkdas shared with us, I have the following more to say:
- Warranty issues are serious in India - some snooty fuel injection manufacturers refuse to accept use of Biodiesel
- Use of Biodiesel in the current generation of crde engines is more difficult (this was told to me by none less than M&M itself, a pioneer in use of Biodiesel in their UVs)
- In Indian conditions too, B20 is an appropriate blend
- More than problems witth biodiesel in the car's ttank, biodiesel faces lots of problems in cold weather in fuel pump storage tanks
- Vegetable oils (prior to transesterification into Biodiesel) perform very well in non-auto engines - I discovered that engine overhaul frequencies also extended longer, and there was less carbon residues in engines.
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Old 11th April 2008, 14:12   #6
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I would recommend not atleast until the warranty period is still there for the car. Use the fuel which is recommended by the manufacturer in their user manual.
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Old 11th April 2008, 14:15   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rippergeo View Post
did you wonder why the price of food is going up? its partly because farmland and farm produce is being diverted to make biofuels.
Blaming biodiesel for prices of food going up is a bit of a stretch. Main reason is because the price of fuel itself is going up. More farmland is being diverted for SEZ and to build nice (and not so nice) apartments for people like you and me.
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Old 11th April 2008, 14:27   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rippergeo View Post
did you wonder why the price of food is going up? its partly because farmland and farm produce is being diverted to make biofuels. and the actual process of producing a biofuel is more polluting than using a mineral based fuel9taking into account (energy needs, the pesticides,irrigation etc)

performance will not increase. there may be a marginal drop.

dont know about mileage.

morally, the practice of using biodiesel is reprehensible IMO.

PS- sorry for being so preachy
With B20 blend, both performance and mileage improve.

The myth about food prices increasing thanks to Biodiesel is not true in the Indian context - Indian policy is to encourage use on non-edible oilseeds in marginal farmlands (greening barren areas), which is not only eco-freindly but also a great employment multiplier in rural areas.

There is a tendency to mix up Biodiesel and Ethanol, the latter being produced by intensive agrarian methods (and using lots of water) in India, both of them bad for India. But Ethanol is used to mix with petrol (rich man's transport fuel, as oppoed to Diesel which find maximum use for power generation and water pumping)
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Old 11th April 2008, 14:29   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spadival View Post
Blaming biodiesel for prices of food going up is a bit of a stretch.
Is it?
Institute for Social Ecology - THE REAL SCOOP ON BIOFUELS
Ecology & Policy: New Research Shows Further Damaging Effects of Some Biofuels
R-Squared Energy Blog: Ethanol, Biodiesel, and Food Prices
Soaring Demand for Crop-Based Biofuels Raising Food Costs Woldwide
Food for Thought: Demand for Ethanol May Drive Up Food Prices, Science News Online, July 22, 2006
Bio-fuels caused food price rise: UN ESCAP
PM concerned over price rise, criticizes bio-fuel factor

I could go on all day posting links, but you dont need to be an agricultural economist to see the truth.

goody two shoes housewives in california are making our countrymen starve. we should not be adding to the problem.
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Old 11th April 2008, 14:29   #10
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Does anyone have information on the Government's position on implementation of biodiesel blends? And ethanol blends with petrol? I'd hitherto thought we were being sold a mandatory blend of 10% ethanol in our petrol, but apparently this was rolled back? Has a new date been set?
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Old 11th April 2008, 14:33   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spadival View Post
Blaming biodiesel for prices of food going up is a bit of a stretch. Main reason is because the price of fuel itself is going up. More farmland is being diverted for SEZ and to build nice (and not so nice) apartments for people like you and me.
In Europe food prices are going up because several crops are being diverted for production of Biodiesel to fulfil tough mandatory green targets.

In Malaysia (large biodiesel producer), forests are being cut down to grow Palm Oil, and the demand for Biodiesel has doubled Palm Oil prices in last 1 year.

But India as usual is an elephant. Its Biodiesel production policy is tottering, despite that it is the most eco-friendly and best in tthe world (use non-edible oilseeds, grow on wastelands, use manpower-intensive cultivation methods, etc). At least in Indian context, food prices have gone up thanks to poor agrarian planning, and not because of Biodiesel.

Having said this, mayybe your house is worth twice what it was 2 years ago, share prices are 4-10 times higher, gold twice and your own salaries have gone up exponentially. So why blame rising food price in a bullish global economy?
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Old 11th April 2008, 14:37   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by netchef View Post
Does anyone have information on the Government's position on implementation of biodiesel blends? And ethanol blends with petrol? I'd hitherto thought we were being sold a mandatory blend of 10% ethanol in our petrol, but apparently this was rolled back? Has a new date been set?
Ethanol blending is happening thanks to the strong sugar lobby which produces Ethanol out of cane. No one has found this an excuse for any rise in sugar prices!

Biodiesel can happen only if more farmlands come under cultivation of Jatropha, which is a slow organic process. In any case, there are teething problems in this process and it can be safely said that we are more or less where we were a couple of years ago on production. Some biodiesel plants started importing Malay Palm Oil but after the massive prices increases, it is not viable to produce Biodiesel any more with such feedstock.
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Old 11th April 2008, 14:39   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hvkumar View Post
With B20 blend, both performance and mileage improve.

The myth about food prices increasing thanks to Biodiesel is not true in the Indian context - Indian policy is to encourage use on non-edible oilseeds in marginal farmlands (greening barren areas), which is not only eco-freindly but also a great employment multiplier in rural areas.

There is a tendency to mix up Biodiesel and Ethanol, the latter being produced by intensive agrarian methods (and using lots of water) in India, both of them bad for India. But Ethanol is used to mix with petrol (rich man's transport fuel, as oppoed to Diesel which find maximum use for power generation and water pumping)
its all good on paper HVK- we promote greening of marginal agrarian lands and all that, but what happens when farmers realise that there is a killing to be made by growing bio fuel crops?

agreed, the farmer makes more money then, which is good for him, but it is only a short term benefit, as the food prices will negate a large chunk of the monetary benefit he's making.

and what will happen to the poor who are not farmers linked to biofuel production?

Diesel is no more the poor man's fuel. look at all the CRDI engines coming out? we are using the loophole provided to us by skewed pricing policies of the govt(especially me-I have not driven a petrol car in india in the last 5 years)

I am open to other viewpoints and would love to see the other side of the argument. any links that will help?

anyway- i dont think we should be discussing this topic here.
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Old 11th April 2008, 14:39   #14
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Karnataka state transport is running buses on bio-diesel and diesel mixed with ethanol. I dont know the number of buses though (should be about 100 or so)
They have found that bio-diesel was 30 to 40 percent efficient than diesel.
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Old 11th April 2008, 14:42   #15
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Rise in oil prices is the primary factor behind the rise in edible oil market. Higher oil prices has caused Govts to encourage alternative fuel production, and higher oil prices has encouraged production of biodiesel and bioethanol (because of their higher cost of production, they are competitive with conventional crude only at around US$50-70/bbl). In the US, maize is used for bio-ethanol. With more land diverted to maize, soyabean acreage and production has declined. Now soyabean is used for biodiesel. Soyabean production has also declined because of declines in US, EU, Ukraine, and Russia.

With maize and soybeans both facing rising demand in the feed as well as the energy market, and thus increasingly competing for land, the unprecedented surge in international maize prices has spilled over to the oilseeds and meal market and in particular the soyabean market. Furthermore, steadily growing biodiesel requirements led to increased demand for avegetable oils, notably soybean, rapeseed and palm oil (all used for biodiesel). With lesser production, less of these available for human use, and steadily growing consumption, the prices of these commodities have risen sharply over the last 3-4 years.
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