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Old 1st December 2007, 04:31   #1
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Default CNG questions

I have a late '97 Opel Astra 135,000km in very very good condition and absolutely no resale value. It used to be my car but now have upgraded/downgraded to a corsa (its just way easier to drive in city and especially old delhi clutch brake traffic). The car will be chauffer driven due to the large comfortable back seat which I never used and can't digest giving my driver a 10 yr old car which gives an avg of 6-8 at best with iftex g. I have decided on CNG as a very close friend has it in his '01 santro (2yr old CNG kit) which he wants to sell (car). The dealer is giving him 35-45% of the value of a new kit, so thinking of giving him an offer he cant refuse. He himself has never faced problems with it exept for rare overheating on the greater noida expressway (could be just the old santros fault.) As me and my family are fixed on getting CNG the question is will it matter if it goes from a santro 1.1 to a astra 1.6, should we go genuine used or new. We expect the car to be driven between 20-30k km more atleast.

Any help will be appreciated
Mr Bansal
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Old 1st December 2007, 10:46   #2
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1.Since ur engine has run 135,000 kms, get the engine compression checked.
2.Speak to a very good CNG installer about reinstalling a used kit from a Santro.
3.A 1.6 engine might need some different parts compared to that on a 1.1
4.R U intending to get it endorsed in ur RC?
5.Are U aware that the CNG is a little harder on the engine than LPG?
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Old 1st December 2007, 14:05   #3
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Well the kit will cost more then your car if you opt for a new one. Get the compression ration checked then go on buying. The kit old/new works same. Just get it checked. Opel astra works fine with an mpfi kit. I hav driven it for a few hundred kilometers allthough it was CLUB version. No new parts except the pipings will be required it the are not enough.

Also try buying TAP for you astra.
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Old 1st December 2007, 14:52   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmdesai
Also try buying TAP for you astra.
What exactly is a TAP?
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Old 1st December 2007, 15:44   #5
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Thanks to Nitrous and Bmdesai for replying so quick

The car is the first series of astras sold here, think before the upgraded 1.6 MPFI engine

1. What is this engine compression? - is it the same as decarbing which i got done at 110,000 km.
2. Will get it pulled out/installed again by the same installer who installed in the santro. He is quite reputable in north delhi.
3. Will not get it endorsed - does this matter.
4. I'm aware CNG is harder but its worth the money saved IMHO. I should recover the cost of the kit in 6-8k km or 4-6 months. Will stick with it till the car dies, then hopefully move it to another car ('03 1.4 corsa sedan)
5. What is TAP?
6. Is it a wise decision as I really dont want to sell the car (I'm getting peanuts for it). The car is as new as can be, well taken care of and I have a good local mechanic. So getting MOST things repaired dosnt cost a bomb.

Will get full details of the kit and speak to the installer on tues/wednesday.
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Old 1st December 2007, 22:34   #6
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CNG Endorsement is important, both for your safety and that of your fellow road users, Using an Unregistered Kit leads to Fine/Jail Term/Or both should you be caught. The Govt.of.Delhi is coming out with norm of issuing CNG/LPG Id Stickers with cars endorsed so Gas will be available to only Approved Cars.

Bad news for you, Legally its not possible to endorse the car since its way past the specified age. You cannot remove Kit and place in another car unless the change is recorded with the Traffic Authorities that too if both cars were under the specified age limit and Orignal car was Endorsed with CNG Kit.( Was a norm earlier, As of now I think its not allowed whatsoever)

You may however look into alternate means of getting the kit endorsed

However should you still decide on installing it illegally,Keep the following in mind:

1) Engine Compression Test, Done at certified garages-Also check the Engine condition and Valve Clearence at this stage.

2) You will need to check the Reducer Unit of the CNG system for Dust or Tear in Diaphram & Plunger.

3) Condition of Electricals both the OEM Car Harness and that of the CNG Kit needs to be throughly checked for Cuts or Wear.

4) Need New Plugs, Air Filter , Throttle Cleaning as a Standard before you proceed with CNG installation.

5) Since the Car is Old,Check condtion of your Rear Shockers, They should be able to take the Added Load of 60-65 Kg ( Avg Full Tank Weight-10 Kgs in a 12 Kg tank)

6) Your Installer will need to ride with you both pre and post installation to understand your style of driving and setting the power and Air-Gas Ratio accordingly.

7) Would strongly recommend a Closed Loop system, unless this kit is already closed loop- Comes with Lamda Control ECU, Electronic Stepper to regulate the Gas Power Flow- If this is the Basic Open Loop, Then at least install an Timing Advancer you will need it.

8) Pollution Under Control PUC Certificate after installation.

Your Estimated Average will be around 12-14 Km/KG (Ac~w/ac), Average Tank fill for a 12 Kg Cylinder is 8-9 Kg in Winters and 7-8 Kg in Summers.

Its better you convert your Corsa,if approved into a Closed Loop CNG Kit- Much better, Average Kit cost is 33,000 ( Open Loop) - 45,000 ( Closed Loop) add a 1000-1500 for Endorsement. Good Brands are Landi Renzo,Minda Impco,Tartarani,Bedini (OEM for Ford,TATA,GM)

Last edited by wolfinstein : 1st December 2007 at 22:49.
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Old 2nd December 2007, 00:12   #7
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TAP is timing advanced processor which costs around 3.4 to 5k. Removes the pick up and other micro problems.
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Old 2nd December 2007, 02:54   #8
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Default cng endorsement

[quote=wolfinstein;643770]CNG Endorsement is important, both for your safety and that of your fellow road users, Using an Unregistered Kit leads to Fine/Jail Term/Or both should you be caught. The Govt.of.Delhi is coming out with norm of issuing CNG/LPG Id Stickers with cars endorsed so Gas will be available to only Approved Cars.

Bad news for you, Legally its not possible to endorse the car since its way past the specified age. You cannot remove Kit and place in another car unless the change is recorded with the Traffic Authorities that too if both cars were under the specified age limit and Orignal car was Endorsed with CNG Kit.( Was a norm earlier, As of now I think its not allowed whatsoever)

Is ther any such rule specifying the age of vehicle for CNG endorsement? Kindly give details.
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Old 2nd December 2007, 04:49   #9
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wolfinstein has written all that you require, i just wanted to add that Tomascetto Achellies(made in Argentina) is the best kit around, tried and tested on my 2002 Ikon 1.6(with TAP only, no lamda) and my 97 Astra(w/o TAP or Lamda) and no problems but since the Astra is driven by my bro who doesnt like to drive hard so he has no problems but if you need to compensate for the torque loss TAP and Lamda is a must on a carburated Astra. Ikon returns 1.20Rs to a km cz i never use a light foot on it and my bro uses the Astra which returns 0.80Paise/km on CNG.
I have posted a recent review on my IKon after converting it to CNG in the Long Term Ownership review section, check it out if you want to.
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Old 2nd December 2007, 18:40   #10
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You need it on RC. Without it, people won't fil up your car with CNG. Its a MANDATORY legal requirement. Its wrong installations/fraud kits that lead to explosions. Putting on RC is a proxy that your installation was done properly!
our m800 got cng kit on RC after some 3 years, because back in 04 govt had made it mandatory to have it certified. so should you!
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Old 3rd December 2007, 00:13   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abhik View Post
a must on a carburated Astra.
OT:i dont think any astra was carb. the ist engine (1996) and 2nd engine 1997(16NZR..IIRC) were both single point fuel injection.
I may be wrong though. can someone confirm
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Old 5th December 2007, 13:43   #12
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[quote=avishkar41;643889]
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfinstein View Post
CNG Endorsement is important, both for your safety and that of your fellow road users, Using an Unregistered Kit leads to Fine/Jail Term/Or both should you be caught. The Govt.of.Delhi is coming out with norm of issuing CNG/LPG Id Stickers with cars endorsed so Gas will be available to only Approved Cars.

Bad news for you, Legally its not possible to endorse the car since its way past the specified age. You cannot remove Kit and place in another car unless the change is recorded with the Traffic Authorities that too if both cars were under the specified age limit and Orignal car was Endorsed with CNG Kit.( Was a norm earlier, As of now I think its not allowed whatsoever)

Is ther any such rule specifying the age of vehicle for CNG endorsement? Kindly give details.

Transport Department

New Page 1

http://transport.delhigovt.nic.in/rohanltd.pdf

Hope this helps, But the regulations and approval are Applicable in Delhi- As available only cars in BS3 Norms can now be converted to CNG, Since the Age Conversion limit for Older vehicle BS2 is over.

Last edited by wolfinstein : 5th December 2007 at 13:46.
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Old 5th December 2007, 15:08   #13
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Does anyone here have experience of using "sequential gas injection" kit? It's supposed to be the most advanced type of kit that comes with its own ECU and gives the best results both in terms of performance and emissions. The kit used to cost about Rs. 70,000/- but prices have probably come down now. When I enquired from Shrimankar, they said they haven't launched it yet.
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Old 11th December 2007, 01:53   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr.abhijeet View Post
OT:i dont think any astra was carb. the ist engine (1996) and 2nd engine 1997(16NZR..IIRC) were both single point fuel injection.
I may be wrong though. can someone confirm

I am sorry for the misinformation. Yes you are absolutely correct the NZR engines were single point injection systems. Its just dat the engine layout on first look looks like a carb system . and so is the performance along with the weight equals to extremely slow acceleration.


Note from Mod - Please avoid the use of SMS language on TBHP. Please make an effort to type your posts in full words. Thanks.

Last edited by Rehaan : 11th December 2007 at 05:44.
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Old 13th May 2008, 21:43   #15
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hi all,

can a cng be fitted on diesel cars? if not, why and if yes, than why not many cars are on cng? is it because of negligible gains on return?

thanks in advance.
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