Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Technical Stuff


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 5th December 2007, 22:27   #1
BHPian
 
sanju.sreekumar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 165
Thanked: 0 Times
Default Fan Belt problem in my Ford Ikon 1.6

Hello,
I post this thread to highlight a problem i have been facing in my car for months and that has been giving me headache and sleepless nights.

The problem is related to the fan belt in my car. Complete details and history below. Please suggest on possible causes and remedies.

In November last year, i was on my way to Wayanad with my car (Ford Ikon 1.6). 80km from Bangalore, there is a place called Maddur on the Bangalore-Mysore highway. I was travelling at around 110kmph when all of a sudden i saw i hump on the road. Before i hit the brakes, it was too late. I hit the hump so hard that the engine fell off from where it was fitted in the chassis. And right below the engine, the driveshaft also came out as result. I called up Cauvery Ford and they promplty towed my car away to the workshop after 4 hours of waiting.

I had to get the driveshaft replaced and the engine fitted back to where it was. But since then i have been seeing a noticeable gap between the bonnet and the grille. I am not sure if it was caused due to this impact. But thats not a major worry.

The problems started occuring when once on the way back from office, my fan belt just shredded off and came off. I called up Cauvery Ford again and they replaced the fan belt with a new one. They also mentioned that my fan belt assembly is mis-aligned and hence might have to replace the whole thing. He also said that it can wait some more time (may be 2 months) before that can be changed. Unfortunately, the next day on the way to office, the fan belt was shred into 2 again. This time i called up Metro Ford as my office was closer to their workshop. I had to get the whole fan belt assembly replaced and had to fit another fan belt. (2 in 2 days )

Surprisingly the above incident happened almost 4 months after the incident on Mysore Road.

The problem seemed to have been rectified. But recently, i have started to get issues with the fan belt again. This time, the fan belt just slipped off when i was running at speed of 80-90 at around 1.5k-2k rpm. One peculiar thing that i noticed this time was that there was no visible damage to the fan belt. But there was a trail of engine oil all along. I went to a local workshop this time just to fit back the fan belt and i asked them some reasons of why that happened. They said chances are that it may happen if there are small dust particles sticking to the fan belt, but they ignored the fact of the trail of oil behind the car and also on the fan belt.

This happened to me almost 4 times in one week. Another mechanic mentioned that oil from the engine was leaking on to the fan belt assembly and hence causing the fan belt to slip. One leakage was noticed and it was plugged. But it happened again last week. Now, all undiscovered oil leakages have been plugged. I am not sure if it happen again because i am scared to put more strain on the engine by going above 60kmph.

My questions below:
1) Are all these related to the impact i had one year back.
2) If no, what are the possible causes this is happenning continously?
3) If yes, why has this problem appeared only now? and not sometime back?
4) Why do i see a trail of engine oil only after the fan belt has slipped off and no other traces of oil leak before that? (I check my regular parking place regularly and there is no single drop of oil there)
5) I am feeling like selling off my car because i have lost the confidence in going for long drives with it. Can this be repaired or is my car a lemon??




NB: I am taking my car to Cauvery Ford this weekend for a regular check up. I will update you all on what their comments are. (i got a got from them last week on the feedback i had given to them on thier website a couple of weeks back, which was surprising)
sanju.sreekumar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th December 2007, 12:57   #2
Senior - BHPian
 
Spitfire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Panaji - Goa/Bangalore - Karnataka
Posts: 3,242
Thanked: 691 Times
Infractions: 0/1 (7)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanju.sreekumar View Post
My questions below:
1) Are all these related to the impact i had one year back.
2) If no, what are the possible causes this is happenning continously?
3) If yes, why has this problem appeared only now? and not sometime back?
4) Why do i see a trail of engine oil only after the fan belt has slipped off and no other traces of oil leak before that? (I check my regular parking place regularly and there is no single drop of oil there)
5) I am feeling like selling off my car because i have lost the confidence in going for long drives with it. Can this be repaired or is my car a lemon??
What happened is unfortunate.Never heard of an engine falling off its mountings, unless the hump was so bad that it broke all the engine mounts together. When you got the engine fixed back what was done? Did the workshop tell you what all was broken or damaged due to the engine and drivetrain falling off. If you have the bill maybe you can look it up and tell.

Answers to your questions:
i,ii,iii. Well very much possible, engine falling off is not a normal thing. Even in bad accidents the engine doesnt fall off. Also maybe the engine was not aligned properly to the engine bay and other components. Over a period probably a year the tolerances increased and you started seeing the problems.

iv. Ask the service center to check all oil seals. Due to the belt tension the shaft is held securely in place. As the belt comes off it may induce some play at the shaft end making oil come out. Best way to track this is to check where the oil is leaking from. If the oil leaks only after the belt comes off then it surely is one of the components in that system.

v. It surely can be repaired. But how much it will cost depends upon the extent of damage the engine fall cost. You may never know whether the job being done is of a high quality or not. Try and convince the Ford guys that they need to give some sort of warrranty on their work since they have not being able to rectify the problem, and that if it occurs again you wont have to pay for it, atleast for the parts you had recently changed on their recommendations.

What policy does Ford have on such repairs. At Mahinndra i get 6 months warranty on any critical part failure from the company after repairs for both my Classic and the Bolero.
Spitfire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th December 2007, 13:16   #3
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Technocrat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Mid West
Posts: 14,896
Thanked: 2,477 Times
Default

Engine Falling Off is something which I am still not able to digest, I mean never heard anything like this in an accident like yours . Just curious to know Are you the first Owner of the car or is this a 2nd hand Car?

Last edited by Technocrat : 6th December 2007 at 13:18.
Technocrat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th December 2007, 14:47   #4
BHPian
 
sanju.sreekumar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 165
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
Never heard of an engine falling off its mountings, unless the hump was so bad that it broke all the engine mounts together. .
yes...thats right...the engine mounts was spilt into two and thats the reason it fell off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
When you got the engine fixed back what was done? Did the workshop tell you what all was broken or damaged due to the engine and drivetrain falling off.
A new mount was installed and the engine was fixed back up. The drivetrain was replaced. The workshop did not tell me anything else apart from this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
If you have the bill maybe you can look it up and tell.
I dont have the bill with me now. Will take a look tonight and see.

I have another question though.
When the rpm increases, does the fan rotate at a greater speed or is the speed of the fan constant throughout? I ask this question because this problem has occured to me only when i am travelling at high speeds in the 5th gear and on the highway and no where else this has happened.


Cheers
Sanju
sanju.sreekumar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th December 2007, 14:51   #5
BHPian
 
sanju.sreekumar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 165
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Technocrat View Post
Just curious to know Are you the first Owner of the car or is this a 2nd hand Car?
I bought this second hand last October.
sanju.sreekumar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th December 2007, 16:51   #6
Team-BHP Support
 
Jaggu's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 17,742
Thanked: 7,449 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanju.sreekumar View Post

My questions below:
1) Are all these related to the impact i had one year back.
Could be

2) If no, what are the possible causes this is happenning continously?
misaligned belt, loose belt (faulty tensioner), oil leaking on to the belt

3) If yes, why has this problem appeared only now? and not sometime back?
deteriorating slowly? oil leak induced

4) Why do i see a trail of engine oil only after the fan belt has slipped off and no other traces of oil leak before that? (I check my regular parking place regularly and there is no single drop of oil there)
it might be a recent minor leak but once it reaches the belt can be disastrous

5) I am feeling like selling off my car because i have lost the confidence in going for long drives with it. Can this be repaired or is my car a lemon??
dont speculate, explain your service adviser the whole history, also carry the bills so that he can trace back the work done
Would suggest you to give a dealer one more chance and explain to them very clearly and instruct them not to go with experimenting if they are not sure about the actual reason.
Jaggu is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 6th December 2007, 17:27   #7
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Technocrat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Mid West
Posts: 14,896
Thanked: 2,477 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanju.sreekumar View Post
I bought this second hand last October.
Hmm I thought so as I wonder if the car already had a weak Chasis to let the engine fall. Anyways I hope your issuesget sorted soon.
Technocrat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th December 2007, 18:12   #8
Senior - BHPian
 
Spitfire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Panaji - Goa/Bangalore - Karnataka
Posts: 3,242
Thanked: 691 Times
Infractions: 0/1 (7)
Default

Quote:
yes...thats right...the engine mounts was spilt into two and thats the reason it fell off.
How did they actually fix the mounts? Welded them? Look at the mounts you will know. If not done properly this could be a longtime issue.

Quote:
A new mount was installed and the engine was fixed back up. The drivetrain was replaced. The workshop did not tell me anything else apart from this.
When you mean whole drivetrain which all parts were replaced. The bill should tell you. What amount did you spend on this?


Quote:
I have another question though.
When the rpm increases, does the fan rotate at a greater speed or is the speed of the fan constant throughout? I ask this question because this problem has occured to me only when i am travelling at high speeds in the 5th gear and on the highway and no where else this has happened.
Yes the fan speed depends upon the engine rpm, its driven off the crankshaft. Rev your engine with the hood open to check.

PS: Dude are you from IBM GSDC?
Spitfire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th December 2007, 18:16   #9
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,430
Thanked: 32 Times
Default

I was wondering about the engine falling off too. I remember this hump very well. I think you are talking about the one which is right after the right turn and is not easily visible. I ran over that too once, but I was about 60kph at that time. I have not had any problems with my car and I got it checked after that drive too.

There is a good possibility that your present problems with the fan belt and oil leaks can be related with your hump incident.
deepakhon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th December 2007, 18:36   #10
BHPian
 
sanju.sreekumar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 165
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
How did they actually fix the mounts? Welded them?
They did not weld them. The engine is mounted on a metal piece on either side which snapped. They just replaced them with a new one. The bill has that specifications though if i remember well. I checked that last week and i did not see a problem with the mounts. May be complete misalignment?? Because i had change the fan belt assembly from Metro Ford for a bill coming to 17k. (lots of money spent on it already ..lol)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
When you mean whole drivetrain which all parts were replaced. The bill should tell you. What amount did you spend on this?
The Whole amount came to around 22k. I dont have the details now. Need to check that when i am back home.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
PS: Dude are you from IBM GSDC?
Yes I am.


Cheers
sanju.sreekumar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th December 2007, 19:07   #11
Team-BHP Support
 
Jaggu's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 17,742
Thanked: 7,449 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
Yes the fan speed depends upon the engine rpm, its driven off the crankshaft. Rev your engine with the hood open to check.
Let me clarify here, the fan runs off electric motor and doesnt have anything to do with RPM, it has ON and OFF position.

Its the engine/water pump/alternator belt that changes speed with RPM, this is for the sake of technically challenged members who might read this thread.

cheers:
Jaggu is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 6th December 2007, 22:13   #12
Senior - BHPian
 
humyum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Leicester/Mumbai
Posts: 2,306
Thanked: 2,186 Times
Default

By engine mounts breaking into 2 and the engine falling off i think he means the crossmember in the front.
Must have been already weak and must have broken off due to the hump and since it supports the front side of the engine the engine came ahead and that stressed out the engine mounting behind and the whole engine came out.
Not very suprising.A weak/cracked crossmember is easily noticable if looked properly
humyum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th December 2007, 20:25   #13
BHPian
 
sanju.sreekumar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 165
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

Seems like the problem with my fan belt has been resolved. Had been to Cauvery Ford on Saturday and they confirmed that oil leak has stopped and the belt was in fact slipping off because of the oil leakage. Have been using for a couple of weeks since i got it repaired after the last problem and see no problems yet. Still tentative about going above 60kmph. But the confidence in my car is slowly coming back.

Another question. May be the last couple of posts have not yet cleared my query. Sorry for asking again.

1) Does the fan belt speed increase as i rev up the engine? OR does the fan belt speed increase as the speed of the car increases?

Cheers
Sanju
sanju.sreekumar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th December 2007, 22:23   #14
Team-BHP Support
 
Jaggu's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 17,742
Thanked: 7,449 Times
Default

fan belt or water pump belt is the one which connects the various pulleys of the engine, like crank, water pump as well as power steering and ac comp.

so in effect when the rpm of the engine increases the speed of the belt rotation also increases.

again when the speed increases technically your engine speed is also increasing and hence the belt also increases its RPM (rotations per minute)
Jaggu is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11th March 2009, 12:13   #15
BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: NOIDA
Posts: 60
Thanked: 20 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
fan belt or water pump belt is the one which connects the various pulleys of the engine, like crank, water pump as well as power steering and ac comp.

so in effect when the rpm of the engine increases the speed of the belt rotation also increases.

again when the speed increases technically your engine speed is also increasing and hence the belt also increases its RPM (rotations per minute)
Hello, I am just curious to know what all belts does a Maruti Zen Vxi 2004 has?
Owner manual says:
-Water pump belt
-Timing belt
-Air-conditioner belt

Are there any other belts?
-Alternator belt
-Power steering belt
cowboy45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Is it the fan belt noise? Please guide sforsarang Technical Stuff 34 14th April 2017 21:44
alternator belt damages timing belt??? jalsa777 Technical Stuff 21 8th March 2015 10:52
Ford Ikon 1.3 Flair Timing belt / chain question SPARKled Technical Stuff 22 24th October 2010 09:42
Problem with Ford Ikon- Engine Fan amit_3306 Technical Stuff 6 5th December 2009 19:09
Fan belt noise in Xing XP Sush Technical Stuff 32 10th July 2007 10:17


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 07:49.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks