Timing belt queries

[tsk1979]

My Tata indica has done close to 90K kms. The service manual suggests that I change timing belt at 100,000kms.
Since it costs 700rs(Original Telco) and 200rs labor, I am planning to get it done soon
A couple of questions
1. Is it a very complex job? i.e. is removal of engine etc., requried. Or is it similar to removing alternator and refitting.
2. Once the timing belt is changed in the indica, is it self adjusting, or timing has to be adjusted manually. When we had petrol gypsy, the service station used to have this flickering light to adjust timing. How is it done in the indica. Can any diesel heads elaborate.
3.Are there any auxillary parts which have to be changed? For example with oil filter normally diesel filters are also changed. I went through my service book, but did not find anything there related to timing belt which reaches end of life around 100,000kms.

[nitrous]

Im telling this out of pure experience of supervising a timing belt change in my sumo NA.
1.Timing belt change in an NA engine is fairly simple and straight forward compared to a turbo. ( mech was relieved when I mentioned that the belt change was for an NA).
2.No need to remove engine and all.
3.They "lock" the timing gears position before removing the old belt and fit the new one onto it.
4.I dont think a timing light is used in a diesel.
5.Auxillary parts aren't involved with this change.
If possible,stay with the vehicle and/or get a VERY experienced guy to change the belt to make sure they don't make a mistake with U ending up with bent valves,etc..

[sbasak]

I'm not sure about Indica, but in many cars it is advisable to check water pump and replace belt pulleys at the same time.

[Jaggu]

In general replacement following is done.. inline BOLD

Originally Posted by tsk1979

1. Is it a very complex job? i.e. is removal of engine etc., requried. Or is it similar to removing alternator and refitting.

Nope need to remove the timing belt cover and fan belts and pulleys

2. Once the timing belt is changed in the indica, is it self adjusting, or timing has to be adjusted manually. When we had petrol gypsy, the service station used to have this flickering light to adjust timing. How is it done in the indica. Can any diesel heads elaborate.

Pulleys have marking which needs to be aligned while installing the belt

3.Are there any auxillary parts which have to be changed? For example with oil filter normally diesel filters are also changed. I went through my service book, but did not find anything there related to timing belt which reaches end of life around 100,000kms.

if there is any wear on pulleys they will be changed also if there is a timing belt tensioner that needs to be replaced

[Gasolinejunkie]

I’ve done a few timing belts myself but never on a diesel.
The timing belt is to transfer drive from the crankshaft to the over-head camshaft.

1 – Diesel cars don’t have sparkplugs so you don’t need to readjust ignition timing
2 – How hard the job is and the time taken just depends on the setup in the car, some cars take two days and some take two hours. Doesn’t really have anything to do with a turbocharger, unless you need to move the intake manifold in that particular car. But I think changing the belt on a supercharged car will be pretty hard because even the supercharger’s belt/chain will have to be taken off.
I once did a timing belt on a Honda Prelute and it took forever. I needed to take off the rocker cover, alternator, power steering pump, all drive belts and then needed to undo the engine mounts to let the engine hang. Only then I could get to the timing belt.
3 – In some cars like my Nissan, the water pump is also run by the timing belt. So when you change the timing belt you might as well check the pump to see of everythings alright.
4 – Usually people change the drive belts along with the timing belt, simply because once you take it off you might as well change it.
5 – The hardest thing about replacing the timing belt is getting to it. That takes time, replacing it is a half an hour job.
6 – When installing the new belt, make sure all the timing marks on the cam-gear, belt & crank are aligned. You don’t want to have incorrect ignition timing or broken valves.
What I’m most surprised about is the cost of labor over there. In Australia the timing belt costs $35 and the labor to change it is about $400.

[ananthkamath]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Since it costs 700rs(Original Telco) and 200rs labor, I am planning to get it done soon

Right now I have an overwhelming desire to be in India. Rs.200 Labor!! Wow. I had to do my timing belt install myself because the labor is like $300 for the job. Parts including water-pump cost only $100.

[tsk1979]

Waterpump? I did not see anything like that in service book. Is this the pump which is required to move around the cooling water in the engine block from radiator and reservoir?
How big a replacment is this job.
I normally get work done from a small time guy now.
He is expert at electrical work. The only mechanical work he has done for me is, rear brake shoe change, rear inner and outer bearing change, gear oil change and drain, oil change and similar small stuff.
He removed and refitted alternator and belt expertly and could judge proper tension required etc.,
In the Indica alternator removal and refitment is a project due to awkward placement.
I am hoping timing belt would be easier.
He said maximum 2 hours for the job.

@ananthkamat : For brake shoe and bearing change + oil change + gear oil change + filter change + Air filter change+ intake manifold cleaning I paid 200r labor.

[rr_zen]

Originally Posted by Gasolinejunkie

What I’m most surprised about is the cost of labor over there. In Australia the timing belt costs $35 and the labor to change it is about $400.

Dont be surprised my friend ! Thats the case in the US as well. I was given a quote of around $300 for the replacement of the timing belt on my Honda Civic. The break-up was: $45 - cost of belt; $255 - labour !

In fact I had asked if the timing belt could be inspected to decide whether a change was required and pat came the reply with the above figures saying if I were to inspect, I better change it.

[sbasak]

Dont be surprised my friend ! Thats the case in the US as well.

That's same in all developed countries. In UK, a friend of mine had his VW Passat (2002 model) timing belt changed for £450 by main dealer, while the belt costs mere £30. However, it could have been little bit (~20%) cheaper in an independent garage.

That's the reason why in most developed countries, many 10+ yr old cars become prone to be scrapped when cost of repair (labour part) exceeds the book value of car.

[nitrous]

Psycho would be driving a gallardo (turbo-charged,of course) in the US/UK!

[gd1418]

Tanveer, the timing belt in '98 Safari was changed at 64K because there was some noise from the timing area and when opened, the belt was slightly frayed and hard.

Since the timing cover is behind the fan, the radiator, the fan had to be removed. The timing cover was opened and the belt was removed in a jiffy. It took almost an hour to install the new belt as it would not slip on the top pulley's groove easily. There were timing marks on the timing gears that were aligned and the job was done. Also the AC belt too was changed.

I don't recall the cost now but it wasn't too much. And yes, I got it done at my local garage where I go regularly. I've never seen an Indica engine, but being from the same stable there could be a similarity.

Originally Posted by tsk1979

My Tata indica has done close to 90K kms. The service manual suggests that I change timing belt at 100,000kms.
Since it costs 700rs(Original Telco) and 200rs labor, I am planning to get it done soon
A couple of questions
1. Is it a very complex job? i.e. is removal of engine etc., requried. Or is it similar to removing alternator and refitting.
2. Once the timing belt is changed in the indica, is it self adjusting, or timing has to be adjusted manually. When we had petrol gypsy, the service station used to have this flickering light to adjust timing. How is it done in the indica. Can any diesel heads elaborate.
3.Are there any auxillary parts which have to be changed? For example with oil filter normally diesel filters are also changed. I went through my service book, but did not find anything there related to timing belt which reaches end of life around 100,000kms.

[jalsa777]

what happens when the timing belt fails when the car is running???

does the vehicle just stall or is there other damage too???

[nitrous]

Serious consequences,jalsa.
Best case:bent valves.
Worst case: engine replacement.

[trrk]

Hi,

In my Indica DLE, the timing belt was changed at 50000kms (as per service manual).

I think it is a fairly routine job and per se does not need any other allied replacements.

[v1p3r]

Originally Posted by nitrous

Psycho would be driving a gallardo (turbo-charged,of course) in the US/UK!

Psycho doesn't charge for labour. You mean Vasu!!!

Originally Posted by gd1418

I've never seen an Indica engine, but being from the same stable there could be a similarity.

Timing belt was behind your fan as the Safari's engine is longitudinally mounted. In the Indica, it will be towards one of the aprons, as the engine is transversely mounted. No need to remove the fan.