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Old 19th September 2013, 18:48   #61
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Default Re: Throttle body cleaning

Folks need some help to validate my recent bill (used this MASS outlet for the first time).
As part of 40K service for my Swift Dzire I also got Throttle Body cleaning done at the MASS. The bill has the following item description:

THROTTLE BODY ASY AND/OR GASKET R&R Rs.1300

Is this price justified/at par with other MASS outlets in Bangalore ?

Also, want to make sure these other items on the bill are not related to Throttle body cleaning
Shell 75W-90 Rs.790 (Qty 2.4, is this litres ?) - this is Gear Oil ?
Castrol 5W30 Synthetic Oil Rs.1676 (Qty 3.2, is this litres ?) - this is Engine Oil ?

Last edited by NPV : 19th September 2013 at 19:08. Reason: Adding synthetic oil price
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Old 19th September 2013, 19:14   #62
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Default Re: Throttle body cleaning

Quote:
Originally Posted by NPV View Post
THROTTLE BODY ASY AND/OR GASKET R&R Rs.1300
Throttle Body Gasket is the thin plate between the Intake and the Throttle body and for sure this cannot cost so much. Secondly, R&R (Remove and Replace) for Throttle body alone cannot be 1300 too.

In fact, throttle body cleaning itself is charged anything from 400 INR - 650 INR across MASS from my past experience. I don't even know when was the last time I got this cleaned at MASS since I am doing that as DIY since more than 3 years now.

Quote:
Is this price justified/at par with other MASS outlets in Bangalore ?
Which MASS are you referring to??
Quote:
Shell 75W-90 Rs.790 (Qty 2.4, is this litres ?) - this is Gear Oil ?
Yes indeed, this is Transmission/Gear Oil.
Quote:
Castrol 5W30 Synthetic Oil Rs.1676 (Qty 3.2, is this litres ?) - this is Engine Oil ?
Yes this is Engine oil but I am wondering if this is Synthetic oil at all. It cannot cost so less (1676 for 3.2 Liters) when I myself pay around 1000 for 3.7 Liters of 5W30 Semi Synthetic (Shell)

Last edited by paragsachania : 19th September 2013 at 19:15.
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Old 19th September 2013, 19:26   #63
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Default Re: Throttle body cleaning

Quote:
Originally Posted by NPV View Post
Folks need some help to validate my recent bill (used this MASS outlet for the first time).
As part of 40K service for my Swift Dzire I also got Throttle Body cleaning done at the MASS. The bill has the following item description:

THROTTLE BODY ASY AND/OR GASKET R&R Rs.1300

Is this price justified/at par with other MASS outlets in Bangalore ?

Also, want to make sure these other items on the bill are not related to Throttle body cleaning
Shell 75W-90 Rs.790 (Qty 2.4, is this litres ?) - this is Gear Oil ?
Castrol 5W30 Synthetic Oil Rs.1676 (Qty 3.2, is this litres ?) - this is Engine Oil ?
It is definitely on the higher side, I was charged only 3xx rupees for throttle body cleaning for my optra(just cleaning, no replacements).
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Old 19th September 2013, 19:43   #64
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Default Re: Throttle body cleaning

Quote:
Originally Posted by paragsachania View Post
R&R (Remove and Replace) for Throttle body alone cannot be 1300 too.

In fact, throttle body cleaning itself is charged anything from 400 INR - 650 INR across MASS from my past experience. I don't even know when was the last time I got this cleaned at MASS since I am doing that as DIY since more than 3 years now.
Thanks Parag.
I will need to dig into this more, when I enquired today about how they do it, they said Throttle body assembly is removed and fixed to a machine for cleaning and then refixed. Since this is part of Labour bill, I think R&R is "Remove and Refix".

Quote:
Which MASS are you referring to??
Pratham Motors, Queens Road.

Quote:
Yes this is Engine oil but I am wondering if this is Synthetic oil at all. It cannot cost so less (1676 for 3.2 Liters) when I myself pay around 1000 for 3.7 Liters of 5W30 Semi Synthetic (Shell)
This is scary , will try to find out more details. I know some of the senior management folks there, hopefully will get to the bottom of this.
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Old 19th September 2013, 19:57   #65
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Default Re: Throttle body cleaning

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Originally Posted by NPV View Post
Thanks Parag.
they said Throttle body assembly is removed and fixed to a machine for cleaning and then refixed.
That is how a throttle Body is removed. Disconnect the Air Filter Hose on one side, loosen 4 bolts holding the throttle body, remove Fuel line pipes, Pull the plugs related to Throttle Position Sensor, IAC, MAP Sensor etc on the Throttle body and take the Throttle body out.

And when they remove it, the Gasket is right between the Intake and the Throttle body like a piece of paper and as good as a carburetor gasket for bikes and cars!!

So essentially, whether its Throttle body cleaning or Replacing the Throttle body gasket, the labor amount of 1300 is totally not acceptable for the job.
Quote:
Since this is part of Labour bill, I think R&R is "Remove and Refix".
Yes, that is correct, its Refit/Replace
Quote:
This is scary , will try to find out more details. I know some of the senior management folks there, hopefully will get to the bottom of this.
You must and also ask them if they had your consent to carry out these tasks (Throttle body Gasket R&R) at all.

Ideally, isn't the SA supposed to give an estimate of Labor+Parts and provide you with a ballpark for the total charges?? That is a standard practice across most of the brand ASCs let alone MSIL.

Ask them the following:
  1. Why was the Throttle Body cleaned? Was there a need at all?
  2. If they respond that they did not clean but merely removed that to replace the Gasket, please ask them the reason for that too - Usually whistling noise while accelerating, Jerky throttle when accelerating etc is due to loose fitment of Throttle body or a worn out/Weak Gasket. Unless there are valid reasons, Pratham cannot give you some lame reasons. Just listen to their response before pouncing on them.

Last edited by paragsachania : 19th September 2013 at 20:01.
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Old 20th September 2013, 20:51   #66
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Default Re: Throttle body cleaning

Quote:
Originally Posted by paragsachania View Post
You must and also ask them if they had your consent to carry out these tasks (Throttle body Gasket R&R) at all.

Ideally, isn't the SA supposed to give an estimate of Labor+Parts and provide you with a ballpark for the total charges?? That is a standard practice across most of the brand ASCs let alone MSIL.

Ask them the following:
  1. Why was the Throttle Body cleaned? Was there a need at all?
  2. If they respond that they did not clean but merely removed that to replace the Gasket, please ask them the reason for that too - Usually whistling noise while accelerating, Jerky throttle when accelerating etc is due to loose fitment of Throttle body or a worn out/Weak Gasket. Unless there are valid reasons, Pratham cannot give you some lame reasons. Just listen to their response before pouncing on them.
Here's the update:
Yes, I'd asked for the Throttle Body cleaning and was part of the job card & estimate. I was told it would cost Rs.1300 and that's on the bill. However, I wanted to rule out any other consumables/parts that they may have charged related to this which is ruled out now. They also mentioned that they will run a "Tech2 Test for SDT parameters" and only based on that they will do the Throttle body cleaning if necessary.
The GM and Service Manager called me back today to respond to my questions and confirmed that it was indeed carried out and they did it based on the Tech2 test for SDT parameters (but they do not take a printout of this) so I have to take their word, some of these folks are known well to me and I have to trust them on this. The service advisor did not seem very convincing and I picked up the car very late when they were all in a hurry to leave hence it stirred up some questions in my mind.
The charge of Rs.1300 is a consolidated charge for the 'chemical' used for this as well as labour inclusive.
I also checked with another contact at Kalyani motors and found that they charge Rs.815 for the Throttle Body cleaning and they charge Rs.1300 for engine decarbonisation.
Also, I came to know that at Pratham they have stopped doing engine decarbonisation based on some earlier experiences.

Lesson learnt for me is not to get these 'extra' services done and stick to regular service recommendations only at the service centres.

Last edited by NPV : 20th September 2013 at 21:21.
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Old 21st September 2013, 11:49   #67
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Default Re: Throttle body cleaning

Quote:
Originally Posted by NPV View Post
I also checked with another contact at Kalyani motors and found that they charge Rs.815 for the Throttle Body cleaning and they charge Rs.1300 for engine decarbonisation.
Also, I came to know that at Pratham they have stopped doing engine decarbonisation based on some earlier experiences.

Lesson learnt for me is not to get these 'extra' services done and stick to regular service recommendations only at the service centres.
There is a circulation from Maruti (available and displayed at MASS centres) on Throttle body cleaning. It says it is pretty much unnecessary. It is useful in some rare cases in cars which have clocked excess of 1-1.5 lac kms. The final conclusion is that this increases asthetic value and not actually performance. Not my opinion, but that of Maruti based on testing with lots of 1 lac kms plus cars.
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Old 14th March 2014, 11:59   #68
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Default Re: Throttle body cleaning

My Swift (2010, K Series, 7500 kms) has had the yellow light CEL with error code "P2101:Throttle Actuator Control" coming up and going on its whim. The only way out looked like cleaning the throttle body and was charged Rs 983 (inc tax) at MASS. They did not remove the body, just cleaned it with spray and then injected some liquid (BG) slowly while idling. I will wait to drive several time before I know whether this fixed the problem or not. My thread on the OBD page:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ecm-ems-3.html (TechSpec® : Understanding On-Board Diagnostics, also known as ECU, ECM, EMS)
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Old 1st July 2014, 13:10   #69
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Default Re: Throttle body cleaning

Some queries with regards to the throttle body cleaning:

1) What exactly is throttle body cleaning and normally how is it done? What happens once the same is done and implications if its not done.
2) During cold starts, I feel my WR CNG is sort of breathless. Once higher RPMs are achieved, it is normal. Does throttle body play a role here?
My car is at 58XXX kms and the throttle body has never been cleaned till date.

The car is due for service next week and the air filter will be changed along with the normal oil filter and fluids.

3) I checked with M.A.S.S and they have quoted Rs. 1350/- for the throttle body cleaning.
I also checked with Mahindra FIrst Choice Service, Thane and they have given me a quote of Rs. 600 fr the same job.

Why the difference and will M.A.S.S do something different in this cleaning that warrants for double the price?

Will it be ok to have the throttle body cleaned at MFC Service and do the regular serving at M.A.S.S.

My WR is now out of warranty as it has covered 40K.
Pls. enlighten me!!
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Old 2nd July 2014, 11:11   #70
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Default Re: Throttle body cleaning

Quote:
Originally Posted by arnabchak View Post
Some queries with regards to the throttle body cleaning:

1) What exactly is throttle body cleaning and normally how is it done? What happens once the same is done and implications if its not done.
2) During cold starts, I feel my WR CNG is sort of breathless. Once higher RPMs are achieved, it is normal. Does throttle body play a role here?
My car is at 58XXX kms and the throttle body has never been cleaned till date.

The car is due for service next week and the air filter will be changed along with the normal oil filter and fluids.

3) I checked with M.A.S.S and they have quoted Rs. 1350/- for the throttle body cleaning.
I also checked with Mahindra FIrst Choice Service, Thane and they have given me a quote of Rs. 600 fr the same job.

Why the difference and will M.A.S.S do something different in this cleaning that warrants for double the price?

Will it be ok to have the throttle body cleaned at MFC Service and do the regular serving at M.A.S.S.

My WR is now out of warranty as it has covered 40K.
Pls. enlighten me!!
Dear Fellow Bhpians

Your thoughts would be really helpful.

Plan to give the car for a service by end of this week.
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Old 2nd July 2014, 12:44   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnabchak View Post

Dear Fellow Bhpians

Your thoughts would be really helpful.

Plan to give the car for a service by end of this week.
Even better, take it to an fng. Its a common enough car for them to be aware of it, And it's not a very advanced skill job.
If not comfortable with a local Mechanic, the cheapest option is well too.

No implications out of getting it done.
Breathlessness is ALSO caused by TB, but not exclusively, so can't comment if it will go.

Last edited by mayankk : 2nd July 2014 at 12:45.
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Old 2nd July 2014, 13:25   #72
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Default Re: Throttle body cleaning

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Originally Posted by mayankk View Post
Even better, take it to an fng. Its a common enough car for them to be aware of it, And it's not a very advanced skill job.
If not comfortable with a local Mechanic, the cheapest option is well too.

No implications out of getting it done.
Breathlessness is ALSO caused by TB, but not exclusively, so can't comment if it will go.
Dear Friends,

Any good FNGs in Ghodbunder Road Thane that could be suggested?

Someone who is capable and reasonable at the same time.
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Old 25th December 2014, 18:31   #73
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Default Re: Throttle body cleaning

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Originally Posted by heysac View Post
My Swift (2010, K Series, 7500 kms) has had the yellow light CEL with error code "P2101:Throttle Actuator Control" coming up and going on its whim. The only way out looked like cleaning the throttle body and was charged Rs 983 (inc tax) at MASS. They did not remove the body, just cleaned it with spray and then injected some liquid (BG) slowly while idling. I will wait to drive several time before I know whether this fixed the problem or not. My thread on the OBD page:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ecm-ems-3.html (TechSpec® : Understanding On-Board Diagnostics, also known as ECU, ECM, EMS)
The CEL has come back again and I am guessing it is the throttle body again! My Swift P has only done 11K (2010 model) so it looks like the last time the spray cleaning was not very successful since it lasted only 3500 km/10 months. Shall I go for a complete throttle body disassembling and cleaning this time? Or do I need to change it?
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Old 25th December 2014, 19:38   #74
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Originally Posted by heysac View Post
The CEL has come back again and I am guessing it is the throttle body again! My Swift P has only done 11K (2010 model) so it looks like the last time the spray cleaning was not very successful since it lasted only 3500 km/10 months. Shall I go for a complete throttle body disassembling and cleaning this time? Or do I need to change it?

I have only said it about a zillion times on this forum! Never start replacing stuff until you have done a proper diagnosis. Reading a code is not a diagnostic process, it's a goo start for your diagnosis. This code could mean at least three different things. Something amiss with the actual actuator, the harness and or the wiring/connectors/earthing.

So you need to find a competent mechanic who will be able to do the necessary simply checks. Many people will start spraying cleaning stuff into the throttle bottle at the first sign of a throttle body code. Not necessarily very effective. Before starting to sprsy stuff into the throttle body have a look inside first. If it is not mucky, cleaning isn't going to help at all. Again, proper diagnosis before starting to supposedly fixing stuff is required.

The valves in the throttle body might get a bit stuck now and then, and it will show when you look into it. If no muck is present you are more likely to have a problem with the actuator or the feedback which is typically some sort of potentiometer. Or something simple, but often difficult to find an electrical fault, damaged harness etc. Many manufacturers will only sell you the complete throttle body whereas the part that often fails, the potentiometer is a fraction of the total cost. A had a problem five or six years ago with the throttle body of my Jaguar. A new throttle body in the USA costed about USD 2.500,00. Managed to trace it down to a faulty potentiometer which cost a few dollars.

So here is what I would do:
- check inside the throttle body, if dirty it needs cleaning before you do anything else
- check and clean every connector in the wiring to the throttle body.
- inspect the harness for any cracks, undue bends etc.

If possible, get hold of a workshop manual as it is likely to have some testing procedures for the above. Check with the guys on a Swift specific owner forum. They usually have tonnes of experience and good tips.

Good luck.

Jeroen
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Old 20th April 2015, 11:01   #75
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Default Re: Throttle body cleaning

Team,

Just got my Swift VXI 70K service done at Varun Motors, Nanakramguda, Gachibowli.

I was shocked to see the bill which was 9075. I am really dissappointed as they have done unnecessary things to inflate the bill and we don't have any proof that they have done it.

My ODO reading was 70386 and I mentioned that it is 70K servicing but they did 80 K servicing as it's been 8 years since I've purchased the car.

Some of the things I am doubting are:

1. MGGO(75W90)-Shell 2.6 lit, rate is 341.48 and amount is 887.85 (transmission oil change)

2. Fuel Injector Assy (all) R&R Rs 600

3. Throttle Body ASY AND/OR Gasket R&R Rs 750

4. Radiator Grille R&R Rs 550


These 4 things were unwarrented and amount to Rs 2787.85 and the servicing labour cost is Rs 1150.

Why would they replace radiator Grille? (when I have not complained)

Do you think the service center is justifeid in doign and charging like this?

Thanks

Last edited by BheemBoy : 20th April 2015 at 11:02. Reason: spelling mistake
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