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Old 9th January 2008, 19:33   #1
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Question Pumpe-Duse diesel technology as against better known CRDi

I don't understand why Skoda is giving the Pumpe-Duse diesel technology to India when VW itself is moving away from it to Common Rail. I read a report on it recently.

Are they dumping the technology on us? Or maybe its cost considerations.

Pumpe-Duse tech has some advantages over common rail, one of which is better adaptivity to bad fuel which is a must in India. Someone needs to do a neck to neck study with the DDiS. I also learned that Pumpe-Duse engines produces better torque than its common rail counterpart. Any info?

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Old 9th January 2008, 19:39   #2
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I dont think Pump Duese engine produces better power or torque then their CRDi counter parts. Case in point is the 2.0L engine of the Sonata and Elantra against the 1.9L of the Octy, the Hyundai engine produces more power.

They are giving us the PD tech since hardly any buyer is aware of it, but once Euro 4 norms come in, then Skoda will be getting the CRDi.
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Old 9th January 2008, 19:44   #3
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The 1.9L in Skoda and the non-tuned DDiS (or petefied) 1.3 produces the same power; bhp & torque.
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Old 9th January 2008, 19:46   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkdas View Post
The 1.9L in Skoda and the non-tuned DDiS (or petefied) 1.3 produces the same power; bhp & torque.
but the 1.9l in the skoda is ancient tech. its not even a crdi or a pd.
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Old 9th January 2008, 19:49   #5
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a dealer told me they have the PD technology on the Laura and how the Fabia engine has the same tech. Was using it as a selling point for the Fabia
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Old 9th January 2008, 19:54   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akshay1234 View Post
but the 1.9l in the skoda is ancient tech. its not even a crdi or a pd.
oh yah! Missed that point

What about Fiesta's and Dicor's?
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Old 9th January 2008, 19:57   #7
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The PD engine is durable and has more progressive torque. it may not win in terms of outright power. another factor is longivity of the engine and tolerant of abuse

The CRD gives more power but the power band is nothing giving an all or nothing power delivery. Check out the test reports of the Passat to understand this.
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Old 9th January 2008, 20:12   #8
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What exactly is the advantage of PD engines?
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Old 9th January 2008, 21:00   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkdas View Post
oh yah! Missed that point

What about Fiesta's and Dicor's?
fiestas and dicors have crdi tech.
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Old 9th January 2008, 21:09   #10
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I am reading a Tech report on Pumpe-Duse engines. I can not disclose more information due to certain confidentiality policies. Read comments below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BUSA View Post
I dont think Pump Duese engine produces better power or torque then their CRDi counter parts.
This is not true. PD engines operates on much higher pressures than CRDi. Thats helps finer atomisation. The report says that the engines can extract 40% thermal energy from the fuel. FE and emmissions are also reduced.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmat View Post
The PD engine is durable and has more progressive torque. it may not win in terms of outright power. another factor is longivity of the engine and tolerant of abuse
This is true. VW engines are known for the reliability. Each injector has its own low pressure pump. Since there are no common pressure pumps, leakages can be avoided. Since PD engines operates on much higher pressures above 25000 PSI, durability is the key element. 25000 PSI translates to 1700 bar which is above the 1400 bar of the DDiS. (Please correct if there is any mistake in calculation)
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Old 9th January 2008, 22:32   #11
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PD is predominantly mechanical than electronic. as we all know electronic tech is replacing mechanical tech in most areas. now one must keep in mind that CRDI is a generic name. the maturity of electronics used determines the quality of the engine and not just the fact that it uses a common rail and single pump.

PD can not only match the current state of the art CRDI but can compete respectably with it for next one generation CRDI i would guess. PD has to be discontinued because being a mechanical thingy, its exp to manufacture (imagine number of pumps needed for v12!), further refinement is harder to obtain, and it is bad with noise and emissions.

CRDI is a marketing name which can mean any generation and any manufacturer. OTH PD means just one thing.

the sun is setting in the PD world, but its not noon in the CRDI world
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Old 9th January 2008, 22:37   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by androdev View Post
the sun is setting in the PD world, but its not noon in the CRDI world
VW was quoted as totally abandoning the PD tech since they are unable to match the emission norms in major nations.

The VW Toureg was PD at one time. We all know its TDi now.
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Old 9th January 2008, 22:39   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by androdev View Post
PD can not only match the current state of the art CRDI but can compete respectably with it for next one generation CRDI i would guess. PD has to be discontinued because being a mechanical thingy, its exp to manufacture (imagine number of pumps needed for v12!), further refinement is harder to obtain, and it is bad with noise and emissions.

I wouldn't be so sure of that. I remember reading somewhere that Volkswagen is switching over to crdi because of the inability to PD engines to match up to the next gen crdi engines.
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Old 9th January 2008, 23:02   #14
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You mean to say the engine in the Octy 1.9TDi is better then the Lolla?
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Old 9th January 2008, 23:08   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BUSA View Post
You mean to say the engine in the Octy 1.9TDi is better then the Lolla?

I dint know that the Octy 1.9 TDi is a next gen crdi.

Last edited by burnt. : 9th January 2008 at 23:09.
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