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Old 20th January 2008, 00:57   #1
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Default Problems with my NHC Vtec Pls Help

Hi All ,


I need your guys help . i have a new NHC Vtec , my driver was drivin it frm shiridi to mumbai i had my family onboard and he seem to drive it over a stone we felt a light thump . that accidently had created a hole in the sump . when the oil light flashed on the console he then realized what had happened and stopped the car .
Since we could not leave the car there we stuck some mseal on the hole in the sump to plug it and filled in oil and drove down to mumbai with frequent checks after every 50kms . and kept refillin oil in the car. Now when we gave the car here for repairs . Now My problems have started

1.The insurance guys says that you shouldnt have driven the car and got it here in mumbai rather you should have towed in the car " after seeing the Mseal, he was not ready to do anything " he said that he would only pay for the sump and not for any other consiquential damage that would have happened"

2. The honda guys called up and said that there is a little scraping on the below crankshaft and now he needs to open up the full engine to check the same. estimated cost " + 70K in case if ne thing turns up" i have absulutely no idea what should i do .

when i pesonally went and checked there was a little scrapin on the crankshaft bottom and i dont know why he needs to open up the full engine " i think merely changing the bearings wuld suffice" PLS SUGGEST. but he innisted upon opening up the engine to chek it all .

Now would it be worth to get the engine opened and pay + 70k from my pocket or it will do like this only , how can the Insurer be conviced to approve all the amount for the repairs . its a year old car and the insurer in Bajaj Allianz.

i am attachin the pictures for you can see the damage urself







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Old 20th January 2008, 12:37   #2
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ouch 70 K for opening the engine!

Yes ideally better to open the engine and check, but inspection cost will not be that high. They might be quoting so much to ensure no sudden surprises if parts are to be changed.

If you have a good rapport with dealer ask him to inspect and change only the damaged parts if any. Again

Downside is dealer will not extend any job warranty if customer insists that the job neednt be done as per their advice.
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Old 20th January 2008, 13:06   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abhishek_rait View Post
Hi All ,


I need your guys help . i have a new NHC Vtec , my driver was drivin it frm shiridi to mumbai i had my family onboard and he seem to drive it over a stone we felt a light thump . that accidently had created a hole in the sump . when the oil light flashed on the console he then realized what had happened and stopped the car .
Since we could not leave the car there we stuck some mseal on the hole in the sump to plug it and filled in oil and drove down to mumbai with frequent checks after every 50kms . and kept refillin oil in the car. Now when we gave the car here for repairs . Now My problems have started

1.The insurance guys says that you shouldnt have driven the car and got it here in mumbai rather you should have towed in the car " after seeing the Mseal, he was not ready to do anything " he said that he would only pay for the sump and not for any other consiquential damage that would have happened"

2. The honda guys called up and said that there is a little scraping on the below crankshaft and now he needs to open up the full engine to check the same. estimated cost " + 70K in case if ne thing turns up" i have absulutely no idea what should i do .

when i pesonally went and checked there was a little scrapin on the crankshaft bottom and i dont know why he needs to open up the full engine " i think merely changing the bearings wuld suffice" PLS SUGGEST. but he innisted upon opening up the engine to chek it all .

Now would it be worth to get the engine opened and pay + 70k from my pocket or it will do like this only , how can the Insurer be conviced to approve all the amount for the repairs . its a year old car and the insurer in Bajaj Allianz.

i am attachin the pictures for you can see the damage urself









Well,from what i can make out , I would suggest you to change the oil sump .

second ,you havent clearly indicated where the leak is . does the oil leak only at the oil sump or does it leak anywhere near the main bearing oil seals ?


incase ,if the leak is only near the sump why was the crankshaft dismantled ?

Due to the hit , is the cylinder block having any problems ?Are any studs broken ?cracked ?


plus for any car the height difference btwn the lowest point of the sump to the crankshaft will definitely be atleast 10 cms ,so there is definitely no way a crankshaft needs to be removed ....
hmmm ,clearer pics whud help
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Old 20th January 2008, 16:50   #4
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Those scraping marks are on main bearing journals & mainly because of loss of oil, when your main journals are effected due to loss of oil, it is highly possible that your Rod journals are also effected too cause they get supply from the mains.
Just putting new bearings will not solve that, the roughness on the Crank Main & Rod Journals has to be smoothen otherwise you might spun your main or Rod bearings if you just replace it with new bearings. the result can be catastrophic.


P.S It would be better if you could post up clear high resolution pics for Main & Rod journals, it will give us a better idea & we can give you some solution.
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Old 20th January 2008, 22:21   #5
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Due to the hit , is the cylinder block having any problems ?Are any studs broken ?cracked ?

plus for any car the height difference btwn the lowest point of the sump to the crankshaft will definitely be atleast 10 cms ,so there is definitely no way a crankshaft needs to be removed ....
hmmm ,clearer pics whud help
The hit was on the sump and there was a hole in the sump .

the dealer opened the sump and removed the crank and showed these scrappin on the cranks " rods and journals ??? no idea wht it means" there was scrappin on the shiny part only two of the shiny ..areas and the other two are perfectly fine.

now what he is saying that if these parts have these kinds of scrappin he needs to open the full engine and check the above links also. dont know what he needs to check after opening the engine .....

Pls suggest i need to tell him about opening the engine tomorrow or just fit the new bearings and give it back... !!!!
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Old 21st January 2008, 01:00   #6
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Default What he is likely to encounter.

On opening the engine he is likely to encounter scrape marks on the cam lobes and cam split bearings which would entail their replacement too and that means he makes more money.
All the above is not likely because of the stone physically hitting the engine block but because of the oil leak caused by the hit on the oil sump and your inability to stop the engine immediately after the lack of oil light came on.
Looks like I will go and fix a sump guard for my GTX tomorrow which is available for the FIAT Adventure..
bye and wear your seat belts.
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Old 21st January 2008, 09:30   #7
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Originally Posted by drpullockaran View Post
All the above is not likely because of the stone physically hitting the engine block but because of the oil leak caused by the hit on the oil sump and your inability to stop the engine immediately after the lack of oil light came on.
Moreover your car was fully loaded when it happened, that puts more strain on engine & without oil thats 100 times worse.
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Old 21st January 2008, 10:04   #8
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too late... but you should always play dumb while claiming insurance or warranty.. you should not give any excuse for them to void your claim..

driving the car after leak was a bad idea but telling the dealer/insurer about it could have been avoided.. just stop where ever convenient, clear any proof of self-repairs and call for their breakdown service!

best course of action is to go for the dealer recommended repair and try to get the maximum claim amount possible. good luck.
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Old 21st January 2008, 10:10   #9
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Default Honda <---->Insurer should talk

{1.The insurance guys says that you shouldnt have driven the car and got it here in mumbai rather you should have towed in the car " after seeing the Mseal, he was not ready to do anything " he said that he would only pay for the sump and not for any other consiquential damage that would have happened"

2. The honda guys called up and said that there is a little scraping on the below crankshaft and now he needs to open up the full engine to check the same. estimated cost " + 70K in case if ne thing turns up" i have absulutely no idea what should i do . }

I would have the insurer and the Honda service manager talk to ascertain what damage is likely to be from the initial blow and what may be because of your unwise decision to keep running the car. The insurer must be made to pay for all the initial damage. You must be assertive without being rude.
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Old 21st January 2008, 10:17   #10
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Originally Posted by androdev View Post
too late... but you should always play dumb while claiming insurance or warranty.. you should not give any excuse for them to void your claim..

driving the car after leak was a bad idea but telling the dealer/insurer about it could have been avoided.. just stop where ever convenient, clear any proof of self-repairs and call for their breakdown service!

best course of action is to go for the dealer recommended repair and try to get the maximum claim amount possible. good luck.

nothing much left to do. Play safe the next time.

This time, just have a talk to the dealer and, as mentioned earlier, as them to replace only on a need basis - ask them to be the judge. This way they cannot, at a later point of time, accuse you of not letting do the work as per their recommendation.
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Old 21st January 2008, 12:53   #11
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ok ,

will do the needful as per the valuable inputs from all team-bhp mates . thanks

they have said to open the engine and check all the links . which i think would have scraping marks . Does this scraping marks effect the engine ?
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Old 21st January 2008, 12:59   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ford Rocam View Post
Those scraping marks are on main bearing journals & mainly because of loss of oil, when your main journals are effected due to loss of oil, it is highly possible that your Rod journals are also effected too cause they get supply from the mains.
Just putting new bearings will not solve that, the roughness on the Crank Main & Rod Journals has to be smoothen otherwise you might spun your main or Rod bearings if you just replace it with new bearings. the result can be catastrophic.
Thanks , will go as per suggested . later on i dont want any problems with the car and saving some money here would cost me big at a later stage ..
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Old 21st January 2008, 23:32   #13
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Originally Posted by abhishek_rait View Post
Thanks , will go as per suggested . later on i dont want any problems with the car and saving some money here would cost me big at a later stage ..
If you have not given anything in writing I am sure that you would win against the insurer in court since its the onus of the insurance company to prove all the things that you did. You will get your Rs70000/- but belatedly though.
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Old 21st January 2008, 23:49   #14
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What he did is known, and can be supported by the dealer.

What I'd suggest is taking a much stronger line with the insurer. You did what you could, to the best of your knowledge and ability, to minimise the extent of the damage. As you are not a professional mechanic, you cannot be blamed if you made a mistake. The insurance company should pay up.

... You could try it. I certainly wouldn't take their refusal without a fight.
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Old 23rd January 2008, 12:43   #15
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What he did is known, and can be supported by the dealer.

What I'd suggest is taking a much stronger line with the insurer. You did what you could, to the best of your knowledge and ability, to minimise the extent of the damage. As you are not a professional mechanic, you cannot be blamed if you made a mistake. The insurance company should pay up.

... You could try it. I certainly wouldn't take their refusal without a fight.

i had been fighting with the insurance guys ' Bajaj Allianz" and they are yet to revert back to me . only thing they are cribbin is for the m seal which i put on .

will keep you all informed
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