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Old 3rd March 2010, 07:50   #46
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Originally Posted by Otto View Post

that's why you have the same engine with different powers e.g. 90bhp and 110bhp for the same engine - the difference between the two is the size of the injector bores.
take another example - the maruti swift DDis, Tata Manza, Fiat punto and now ever the Grand Vitara Diesel all use the same fiat engine but are with different power ratings. Care to explain that?
I can explain that, but not on the forum.. There are a LOT of subtle differences in the same engine doing duty in these cars and thats why each of them is different in driving.
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Old 3rd March 2010, 10:34   #47
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I can explain that, but not on the forum.. There are a LOT of subtle differences in the same engine doing duty in these cars and thats why each of them is different in driving.
I'm really glad you came to a point of "The subtle differences" - the same engine with a different power rating due to the size of injectors, transmission, even turbocharger or fuel pump. That's what would make up the subtle differences, wouldn't they?
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Old 3rd March 2010, 11:04   #48
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Just because an engine can take twice the stress and power momentarily, does not mean that it can do so at sustained intervals.
for example take the 1.4L Tata dicor.
The engine can easily run at 90bhp sustained. Its designed for that kind of power and torque.
However, if tata tuned the engine to 90bhp, it would shorten the life of the clutch and transmission, so its detuned to around 70bhp.
Same is the case with these boxes. If you are occasionally flooring the pedal with such boxes, its fine, but if you drive with pedal to the metal sustained, it will shorten the life of the components.
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Old 3rd March 2010, 11:22   #49
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I have been driving pedal to metal for last 15,000+kms with a Pete Box fitted to my Viva CRDi. It is an interesting thought that these boxes shorten the life of the components.

These 15K kms have been pure bliss, substanstial increase in HP and Torque and absolutely no change to FE.

However, the biggest issue with a pete box is excessive smoke emission. It's almost a bloody embarrassment. Hope these box manafacturer find a solution to cut short this smoke emission.

Has anyone done above 50K kms with a box? Come to think of it, who has done maximum kms with a box fitted?
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Old 3rd March 2010, 13:16   #50
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Just because an engine can take twice the stress and power momentarily, does not mean that it can do so at sustained intervals.
for example take the 1.4L Tata dicor.
The engine can easily run at 90bhp sustained. Its designed for that kind of power and torque.
However, if tata tuned the engine to 90bhp, it would shorten the life of the clutch and transmission, so its detuned to around 70bhp.
Same is the case with these boxes. If you are occasionally flooring the pedal with such boxes, its fine, but if you drive with pedal to the metal sustained, it will shorten the life of the components.
yes, wearing out of related components are a factor, but you can always put in a performance clutch. I was actually just focusing on the engine only. There have been problems with clutches in car engines tuned to a much higher rating, but then again, we're only talking about the tuning box ,aren't we? that kind of increase in power is negligible as compared to increasing the size of injectors, ECU remap, high performance turbo that people subject the same engine to.
The engine still never takes twice the stress in all it's lifetime. That maximum stress is still very much within the safe working limits, unless you overdo something in which case it will go to "limp mode" or as bad luck would have it - a blown engine. Lot of reported cases here, so now, for every engine there are prescriptions to what you can actually take the maximum power upto without ruining the engine and it would almost definitely include a different clutch, brakes, air intakes, turbo, exhaust etc. etc.



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Old 3rd March 2010, 15:24   #51
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Originally Posted by Otto View Post
yes, wearing out of related components are a factor, but you can always put in a performance clutch. I was actually just focusing on the engine only. There have been problems with clutches in car engines tuned to a much higher rating, but then again, we're only talking about the tuning box ,aren't we? that kind of increase in power is negligible as compared to increasing the size of injectors, ECU remap, high performance turbo that people subject the same engine to.
The engine still never takes twice the stress in all it's lifetime. That maximum stress is still very much within the safe working limits, unless you overdo something in which case it will go to "limp mode" or as bad luck would have it - a blown engine. Lot of reported cases here, so now, for every engine there are prescriptions to what you can actually take the maximum power upto without ruining the engine and it would almost definitely include a different clutch, brakes, air intakes, turbo, exhaust etc. etc.



30% increase in power is not "little bit". These tuning boxes can result in the engine outputting 30-40% more power and torque. This puts stress on engine components as well as other components like clutch, gearbox, transmission, differential etc., etc.,
On the other hand, things like free flow, K&N filters have just 2-5% gain if you actually test it on the dynamo.
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Old 3rd March 2010, 15:29   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto View Post
yes, wearing out of related components are a factor, but you can always put in a performance clutch. I was actually just focusing on the engine only. There have been problems with clutches in car engines tuned to a much higher rating, but then again, we're only talking about the tuning box ,aren't we?

Well Otto Boy:

We aren't..atleast I am not talking only theoretical engine bit, BUT THE CAR in WHOLE..and Practically.

And whats the point of a Tuning Box if it cant carry the car to that speed

At one point, there is discussion on what tyres provide better grip etc and now you say we are talking only engines
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Old 3rd March 2010, 17:04   #53
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Well Otto Boy:

We aren't..atleast I am not talking only theoretical engine bit, BUT THE CAR in WHOLE..and Practically.

And whats the point of a Tuning Box if it cant carry the car to that speed

At one point, there is discussion on what tyres provide better grip etc and now you say we are talking only engines
the car in whole with a tuning box or with additional mods?
I've only been focusing on the topic of this thread for the fear that someone might issue a kickban for going OT.
Anyway, the idea of a tuning box is to improve the engine power at the lower bands. You want a faster car, it's obvious you have to go through a lot of other structural not to mention safety modifications for that kind of modification. That topic can be reserved for elsewhere. Be glad to elucidate on this.


the topic of tyres had NOTHING to do with tuning an engine. Someone was talking about fouling the wheel wells(arches) on his car. I naturally assumed he was lost.
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Old 3rd March 2010, 23:48   #54
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Originally Posted by Otto View Post
the topic of tyres had NOTHING to do with tuning an engine. Someone was talking about fouling the wheel wells(arches) on his car. I naturally assumed he was lost.
Well, if you re-read my entire post, you would probably see sense

In case it still does not, here is a short form - not all cars ( of the same manufacturer, model and batch) are made the same. Some have a higher tolerance, and some lower. The tires fouling in my car is an example for that.

Where there is a variance in tolerance, manufacturers tend to play it safe - especially on engine and transmission.

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Originally Posted by Otto View Post
I've only been focusing on the topic of this thread for the fear that someone might issue a kickban for going OT.
I don't think moderators here would unreasonably give a warning / infraction / ban on anyone. I may be comparatively new to the forum, but I have spent time reading threads and seeing moderator actions to understand how things work here, and from what I have seen only extreme cases gather moderator's ire - that too after warnings. Most of how things work here are covered in the ground rules.

Last edited by ph03n!x : 3rd March 2010 at 23:54.
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Old 4th March 2010, 00:08   #55
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Has anyone done above 50K kms with a box? Come to think of it, who has done maximum kms with a box fitted?
1. IIRC, Peter has an Accent CRDi which has clocked 150k kms and still flies ,i'm told
2. Tadukuttan's Elantra has 100k + with the dabba.
3. A Non-tbhpian from Goa has done 80k on Getz
4. Akshay's Innova has done 45k
5. My Getz has done 40k
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Old 4th March 2010, 00:13   #56
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Originally Posted by kpzen View Post
1. IIRC, Peter has an Accent CRDi which has clocked 150k kms and still flies ,i'm told
2. Tadukuttan's Elantra has 100k + with the dabba.
3. A Non-tbhpian from Goa has done 80k on Getz
4. Akshay's Innova has done 45k
5. My Getz has done 40k

mine has done 60k, passed 45k a while ago.
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Old 4th March 2010, 09:49   #57
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Originally Posted by ph03n!x View Post
Well, if you re-read my entire post, you would probably see sense

In case it still does not, here is a short form - not all cars ( of the same manufacturer, model and batch) are made the same. Some have a higher tolerance, and some lower. The tires fouling in my car is an example for that.
Well then, if you read the reply to that post, you'd also see that the problem with your car was unique, and that size of tyres could easily be used without any fouling. The problem was specific to your car alone.
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Old 4th March 2010, 10:19   #58
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Originally Posted by Otto View Post
I've been using a tuning box (not pete's, sorry, I found that they were only the marketers and not designers of the the T/B and were charging WAYYY more than a TB available and just shipped across)
I always thought that the maps would be detuned for Indian conditions (heat, fuel quality, etc). Are you sure they are just acting as importers/distributors and not actually tuning the maps in any way?
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Old 4th March 2010, 10:52   #59
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Originally Posted by pranavt View Post
I always thought that the maps would be detuned for Indian conditions (heat, fuel quality, etc). Are you sure they are just acting as importers/distributors and not actually tuning the maps in any way?
I too believe they are just distributors and do NOT tweak the maps.

The only indian ECU remap / piggyback guy is Race Dynamics Karthik of Bangalore fame. He is a member of this forum

He can tweak your ECU as you would want.
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Old 4th March 2010, 12:27   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kpzen View Post
1. IIRC, Peter has an Accent CRDi which has clocked 150k kms and still flies ,i'm told
2. Tadukuttan's Elantra has 100k + with the dabba.
3. A Non-tbhpian from Goa has done 80k on Getz
4. Akshay's Innova has done 45k
5. My Getz has done 40k
Quote:
Originally Posted by akshay1234 View Post
mine has done 60k, passed 45k a while ago.
Thats fabulous. Do you guys too have the smoking issue? If yes, have you done anything about it?
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