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Old 27th February 2008, 20:33   #16
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Originally Posted by spadival View Post
Come to think of it, I remember the old days when people kept sand bags at the back of their Maruti Vans, Sumos etc to improve the ride quality
OH my,did they put the sand bags just to improve the ride quality.but is the ride that bad in an omni or sumo.
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Old 27th February 2008, 20:38   #17
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Dont blame the leaf springs, these vehicles are designed for carrying loads and hence the spring rate is high. If you make it soft then the car will point skywards when fully loaded like the original Accent and also bottom out.

H3, Endy, Grande are all based on pickups and hence leafs.

Ambassador has leafs and gives a smooth ride.
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Old 27th February 2008, 20:53   #18
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like most people have said earlier in this thread, leaf springs are meant for a purpose.

load carrying.
its a trade-off.
if you want comfort, get a pretender SUV/softroader.

workhorses will have leafsprings.
anything more fancy will push up the cost of the car and will also make it more prone to failure.

people should stop cribbing about leaf springs. its getting on my nerves.
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Old 27th February 2008, 21:02   #19
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Originally Posted by Mpower View Post
Dont blame the leaf springs, these vehicles are designed for carrying loads and hence the spring rate is high. If you make it soft then the car will point skywards when fully loaded like the original Accent and also bottom out.

H3, Endy, Grande are all based on pickups and hence leafs.

Ambassador has leafs and gives a smooth ride.
Recollect seeing an amby of my friends on the way back from their village, fully loaded with grains and vegetables and all in the boot, the back will be sooo low it looks like the vehicle is trying to do a wheelie! Also add the uncles and aunt's who come back along with you for a visit!

Can a non-leaf suspension do that?

Edit:
And well said RipperGo - " workhorses will have leafsprings."

Last edited by HappyWheels : 27th February 2008 at 21:04.
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Old 27th February 2008, 21:47   #20
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Leaf Springs are basically meant for heavy load carriers and typically found on body on frame type vehicles. They are good for carrying loads over bad terrains but absolutely terrible in comfort and handling departments.
right on!!! a leaf-sprung solid-axle suspension though compromise on comfort are preferered for their price advantage . Its CHEAP.

i think the best suuspension for offroad is Coil Sprunf/Live axle.. its costeffecteive, offers very good ground clearence.

independent front suspension though offers car like ride on 4Wd suvs, its NOT really ,meant for offfroad ..easier to get damaged offroad, more parts, hence more mainatanence/repair costs
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Old 27th February 2008, 21:52   #21
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Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
Hummer H3 has leaf springs at the back.
So does my Bolero. I have good company.



-- Torqy
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Old 27th February 2008, 22:22   #22
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parabolic are always better than the normal leaf springs. the cushioning effect is better with low loads and the springs become stiff when heavy loads are there. somehow its in mid of traditional leaf springs and coil type.
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Old 28th February 2008, 06:21   #23
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Originally Posted by rippergeo View Post
load carrying.
its a trade-off.
if you want comfort, get a pretender SUV/softroader.

workhorses will have leafsprings.
anything more fancy will push up the cost of the car and will also make it more prone to failure.

people should stop cribbing about leaf springs. its getting on my nerves.
SUVs do not HAVE to have leafsprings. The best SUVs in the business - the Landcruiser / FJ Cruiser, LR Defender, MB G Wagon all have Live Axle+Coil Spring setup. In India, the Safari features a 5-link rear setup that is almost a carbon copy of the LR Discovery, though it relies on torsion bars up-front.

Some UVs (they get the 'S' or 'M' tag because of their engine specs and trim levels, not off-roading capabilites) that are extensions of truck platforms, like the Endeavour (Ford Ranger extension), Sumo (207 extension), the Sumo Grande (Xenon extension), Bolero (long history) etc feature a leaf sprung rear.

The fact that the rear is leaf-sprung does not automatically make them great for off-roading, but it does mean that on-road ride and handling is compromised if the suspension is setup for off-road use. It is of course possible to have a leaf-sprung setup that is comfortable for on-road use (Amby is the best example) but then it will never really be able to take a lot of abuse off the road.

Last edited by Steeroid : 28th February 2008 at 06:24.
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Old 28th February 2008, 07:18   #24
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Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post

The fact that the rear is leaf-sprung does not automatically make them great for off-roading, but it does mean that on-road ride and handling is compromised if the suspension is setup for off-road use. It is of course possible to have a leaf-sprung setup that is comfortable for on-road use (Amby is the best example) but then it will never really be able to take a lot of abuse off the road.
Can we call these the Soft roaders then? What about CRV and Captiva and X-Trail? What do they have?
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Old 28th February 2008, 08:14   #25
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Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
SUVs do not HAVE to have leafsprings. The best SUVs in the business - the Landcruiser / FJ Cruiser, LR Defender, MB G Wagon all have Live Axle+Coil Spring setup.
but that does push up the cost. and also produces more moving parts. and I'm not sure about this, but are coil springs as robust as leaf springs when it comes to load carrying? which most of our indian cars are forced to do.

Last edited by rippergeo : 28th February 2008 at 08:30.
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Old 28th February 2008, 08:52   #26
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Originally Posted by rippergeo View Post
but that does push up the cost. and also produces more moving parts. and I'm not sure about this, but are coil springs as robust as leaf springs when it comes to load carrying? which most of our indian cars are forced to do.
The main reason for using leaf spring setup is the cost vs load carrying scenario. Such a configuration will have it's roots in low cost low comfort applications like pick ups.

Coil springs push the cost up because it's more complicated have more moving parts and more bushes. But it provides better wheel locating & tracking and thus better on road characteristics.

For load ultimate load carrying ability leaf is still the king, or air suspension as in the case of some big rigs.
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Old 28th February 2008, 09:10   #27
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This discussion has been enlightening! One way to now look at this is - if anyone's going to be sitting in that last row/jump seats for these vehicles - u've probably got enough weight on board for the ride quality to be ok with the leaf springs too! Or are we talking about major tonnage here that the average extended family of 6-7 does not add up to?
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Old 1st March 2008, 15:24   #28
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Originally Posted by rippergeo View Post
but that does push up the cost. and also produces more moving parts. and I'm not sure about this, but are coil springs as robust as leaf springs when it comes to load carrying? which most of our indian cars are forced to do.
Cost: Why so? The FJ is one of the cheapest SUVs around. The Safari is about 1/2 the cost of an Endeavour and still features an excellent coil-spring setup. Why even the Tata Estate featured a coil-sprung setup that was renowed for its ride comfort - and that was quite some time ago.

Robustness: Coil springs are not exactly rocket science, and have been around long enough. As for robustness - if you see some of the stuff that the trucks I mentioned with coils can do, this question wouldnt come up. Lets just say that they take a lot more punishment by going to places where trucks with leafs wont be able to go to. If one were to go by this line of arguement, the whole of India would still be driving Ambassadors.

Load carrying: If you were carrying loads, you're not really worried about the comfort of the load so why bother putting coils in? The dead axle leaf spring is the simplest suspension the manufacturer can put in for load carrying applications - even bullock carts use them. You dont have to worry about 'tuning' your suspension settings in such a scenario.

Last edited by Steeroid : 1st March 2008 at 15:27.
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Old 1st March 2008, 16:22   #29
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It just occurred to me that a bit of train-spotting may also help - take a look at the suspensions for our passenger trains and those on the goods wagons.
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Old 1st March 2008, 19:56   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
Load carrying: If you were carrying loads, you're not really worried about the comfort of the load so why bother putting coils in? The dead axle leaf spring is the simplest suspension the manufacturer can put in for load carrying applications - even bullock carts use them. You dont have to worry about 'tuning' your suspension settings in such a scenario.
For the most part, yes. But many items like electronics and other fragile items are sensitive to ride quality and operator need to be cognizant about that.
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