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Old 25th April 2008, 17:13   #16
Rai
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Default Adventure Issues?

@Rao_battula,
What do you mean by Leaking the air from Clutch? Any info....

@Gemi,
How you are able to change somany Parts? Do you have a donor car in standby Or you are buying these parts as new?
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Old 28th April 2008, 16:28   #17
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Gemi, I need to understand just one (very important) thing:
- Is it your RPM reading that goes up and down?
OR
- is it your engine rpm "proper" that goes up and down?

If it is the RPM reading, it is a common fault to Italian Tata Safari owners, in 99% cases it is the voltage regulator on the alternator.

If it is the engine rpm that goes up and down (you can hear it with your own ears) then you should check the engine rotation sensor (often on the flywheel) it is a little light-reading diode that tells the ECU the effective engine rps. If the sensor is dirty (even just plain dusty/muddy) the whole engine will drive like "drunk"

Hope this helps
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Old 28th April 2008, 16:48   #18
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I faced a similiar problem with my Santro. Though it doesn't have a Tacho, the problem was similiar. It lasted for around 4-5 months, during which some mechanincs mentioned that Coolant needs to be changed and some more optimisteic Mechanics offered an Engine Down. I changed the Coolant which dint work and the problem continued. I just ignored the Engine Down problem, as I was sure the engines was working very well.
Strangely, the car was getting stalled sooner with AC on than without AC.
Then, on a trip to Kolhapur, a mechanic cracked the problem perfectly. The problem was of the Electronic fuel pump which required replacement.
I replaced it and there aint any problems after that. it is 3 months now.

I suggest you get your Fuel pump checked once, if thats not yet done.
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Old 28th April 2008, 16:49   #19
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Sometimes the major looking issues are actually very smaller.
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Old 28th April 2008, 17:11   #20
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Whats the update?

Ive been thinking about this, if you have ruled out throttle body sensors then you should check for any air leaks, while the car is really hot (as in bumper to bumper traffic).

Also is there any fuel vapor collector, if so is it clean (tubes that go in, as well as the pores which let it breath). This one is a high probability since it might be residing near your fuel tank, which will get clogged with all the road muck.

How about injectors? are they perfect? One clogged injector gave similar results in my old car.
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Old 28th April 2008, 22:32   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpescatori View Post
Gemi, I need to understand just one (very important) thing:
- Is it your RPM reading that goes up and down?
OR
- is it your engine rpm "proper" that goes up and down?

If it is the RPM reading, it is a common fault to Italian Tata Safari owners, in 99% cases it is the voltage regulator on the alternator.

If it is the engine rpm that goes up and down (you can hear it with your own ears) then you should check the engine rotation sensor (often on the flywheel) it is a little light-reading diode that tells the ECU the effective engine rps. If the sensor is dirty (even just plain dusty/muddy) the whole engine will drive like "drunk"

Hope this helps
The engine runs at higher and lower rpms. THis was solved by changing the throttle body. Which has the throttle position sensor and the stepper motor attached to it. IN the 1.6 we cant remove the sensors, its fixed to the throttle body.


Quote:
Originally Posted by vinit.merchant View Post
I faced a similiar problem with my Santro. Though it doesn't have a Tacho, the problem was similiar. It lasted for around 4-5 months, during which some mechanincs mentioned that Coolant needs to be changed and some more optimisteic Mechanics offered an Engine Down. I changed the Coolant which dint work and the problem continued. I just ignored the Engine Down problem, as I was sure the engines was working very well.
Strangely, the car was getting stalled sooner with AC on than without AC.
Then, on a trip to Kolhapur, a mechanic cracked the problem perfectly. The problem was of the Electronic fuel pump which required replacement.
I replaced it and there aint any problems after that. it is 3 months now.

I suggest you get your Fuel pump checked once, if thats not yet done.
Well the fuel pump was next in line if the issues could not be solved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Whats the update?

Ive been thinking about this, if you have ruled out throttle body sensors then you should check for any air leaks, while the car is really hot (as in bumper to bumper traffic).

Also is there any fuel vapor collector, if so is it clean (tubes that go in, as well as the pores which let it breath). This one is a high probability since it might be residing near your fuel tank, which will get clogged with all the road muck.

How about injectors? are they perfect? One clogged injector gave similar results in my old car.
Thanks Jaggu. We changed the fuel collector too but without any effect.

We changed the following parts last week
- ALternator
- Catalytic COnverter
- LAmbda Sensor

Since then the car is running fine. Hope it stays fit and good here on.

Still not very sure what the real culprit was. Changed everything in line since dd not what to re open things every now and then.
The logic for changing the parts were
- Alternator not giving enough current at lower rpms. Hence ECU could be increasing rpm. to stabilise current.

- Catalytic converter being blocked or malfunctioning could lead to higher idling. THought this could be the culprit since the issue cropped up mostly when outer temperature was higher. Mostly in afternoons.

- Lambda Sensor could lead to faulty air mixture and high idling.

Personally i suspect the lambda sensor. But the behaviour only in bumper to bumper traffic keeps me doubting.

Anyways the car has run perfectly over the last week. Thought if being sure before posting.

Last edited by gemithomas : 28th April 2008 at 22:33.
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Old 28th April 2008, 22:51   #22
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gemi are you still under warranty , how much did the whole incident costed you ?
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Old 28th April 2008, 23:44   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by black12rr View Post
gemi are you still under warranty , how much did the whole incident costed you ?
I believe that could have been a costly affair.
But it seems to be doing well after all the efforts.
Congrats Gemi.
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Old 30th April 2008, 09:10   #24
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Luckily the issue started just the month the warranty ended. The work was done after i completed one year but they did the work under warranty. Mr.Mangesh, the india customer service head and Mr.Krishnan the state incharge were constantly in touch with the serivce guys. Thanks to PUG (PAlio Users Group). The guys here at Kulathunkal Motors were very co-operative. I had actually sent a letter of appreciation to Mangesh. Was really impressed with the effort they took towards trying to solve the issue.
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Old 15th May 2008, 12:36   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rai View Post
@Rao_battula,
What do you mean by Leaking the air from Clutch? Any info....
Technically, I am not sure what it is. But I will describe what they have done to the car.

Started the engine. Depressed the clutch. Opened the engine bay. Leaked oil/air from the place (upper right hand side, near throttle body). Refilled clutch oil. End of it.

I was not interested to know, what actually he is doing and how it affects. We were tired with the problem and we thought of selling the car if the problem not fixed that time.

I think some experts here can explain us a bit more technically.

It is good to know the problem is not seen. You have done it Gemi. Great Effort and thanks to Mangesh. He also helped us replacing some of the parts when Autofin, Hyd were not cooperative.

-BSR

Last edited by rao_battula : 15th May 2008 at 12:38.
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Old 20th June 2008, 21:31   #26
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I too got some rpm problem.
It happened at one traffic light, as the car was idle, the rpm by itself starts dropping from its 800 (i suppose thats 800) to 200, and then it keep on moving in between. This happened around a week back, then nothing happened till today.
Today same problem, and once even rpm dropped so low that once the battery light on the display panel glowed for a moment. every time the rpm dropped the car use to jerk similar to like knocking.
Also i had to press accelaertaor a bit hard to move the car.
I always go to same petrol pump, and use HP power. So i dont think fuel adulteration could be the cause. Also its not regular, and everthing is normal at higher speeds. Its only when car is standing this dropping of rpm occurs.
Clueless about what could be the cause.
Gemi I suppose in your case the rpm was rising above default level, but here its dropping.
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Old 20th June 2008, 22:33   #27
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Default Two possible culprits.

From the complaints mentioned get these two things checked out.

1)The byepass valve of the idle actuator with the stepper motor situated in the throttle body.

2)For fuel efficiency have a look at the voltage output of the Lambda sensor.

3) The service center guy is talking bull. He does not have the ultrasonic cleaner/bath to clean the throttle bodies byepass valve. Unless the throttle bodies stepper motor has kicked the bucket you erratic rpm can be rectified.



Quote:
Originally Posted by gemithomas View Post
MODS: Starting a new thread since the earlier thread in which i put this did not give much replies. Thought a new thread would give it more visibility.

My Adventure has started showing irregular rpms. These are the details
- 3 weeks back i start the car and i see the rpm meter dancing between 300 and 2000 mark. Luckily THings become fine after some time.
- The same thing repeats after another week.
- Yesterday i see the rpm meter settling at 1.1K after some running. When the accelerator is pressed the rpm falls to 200 and the engine stalls unless you move the car with the clutch slightly pressed.
- Once engine is switched off for 10 min everything is normal till a few minutes of running.
- Checked ECU on computer but no errors.
- On the last 40 liters i could run only 300km!!!! So the mileage has taken a good hit.
- Acceleration feels a bit slow once in a while. Not sure if its just a feeling.

I went to the service centre and the guy says he could change the throttle body. HE says that there is nothing to clean in the throttle body. Saw the spare its just a butterfly valve with fixed sensors. The service guys said the older verions had a removable sensor and those could be cleaned. Not sure how true this is but I also did feel that there is nothing really to clean in there.

Last edited by drpullockaran : 20th June 2008 at 22:36.
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Old 21st June 2008, 07:49   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drpullockaran View Post
From the complaints mentioned get these two things checked out.




1)The byepass valve of the idle actuator with the stepper motor situated in the throttle body.

2)For fuel efficiency have a look at the voltage output of the Lambda sensor.


3) The service center guy is talking bull. He does not have the ultrasonic cleaner/bath to clean the throttle bodies byepass valve. Unless the throttle bodies stepper motor has kicked the bucket you erratic rpm can be rectified.
That problem of Gemithomas already got solved. Please follow the whole thread.
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Old 21st June 2008, 22:30   #29
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It should be the throttle body problem. You can get is replaced under warranty.
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Old 22nd June 2008, 15:35   #30
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Default Too eager to help

Quote:
Originally Posted by hrsraghav View Post
That problem of Gemithomas already got solved. Please follow the whole thread.
I did not read the complete thread and hence wasted your time and mine too (Sorry) as I was aghast at the notion that the throttle body cannot be cleaned and wanted to pen down my 2 paisa information before he changed the throttle body. I gather its too late though. Gemi if you do not mind please keep all the exchanged parts with you as I would like to get my hands dirty on the old throttle body that you are probably going to throw away. I am serious.
Sorry.
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