Turbocharger failure in new safari 2.2VTT(Edit: Solved; only a cracked rubber tubing)

[gd1418]

@DDDHRUV: I've always had a thumb rule about TATA vehicles; purchase their model after a year of the launch. By that time most of the complaints would have come in and the rectifications made.

I learnt it the hard way when I bought my 4x4 Safari in 1998 just after the launch..

Originally Posted by DDDHRUV

Fault diagnosed as play in turbo charger shaft arresting free movement leading to short supply when the engine crosses say 2000 rpm leading to malfunction alert and SERVICE light getting on.

[gd1418]

I agree Pavan, but the fact remains that as a consumer our lobby is not that strong as elsewhere, to force manufacturers to recall defective units for correction/replacement.

Now if people like Dhruv had gone to the consumer court for receiving a defective piece and suffering mental harassment for ruining of a holiday due to faulty machine, and the court would have awarded an exemplary punishment to the manufacturer, things would have been different. Manufacturers would have been more careful in future.

Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM

At least TATA's are not calling thousands of cars after purposly fitting a wrong part. like other car manufacturers do.

All cars will have some malfunctioning part or the other,

Remember nobody's PERFECT.

[nitrous]

@ishan: I just mentioned the turbo maker for the safari.
I didnt mean anything else,man.

[gd1418]

It is not binding on you. it is your vehicle and you've paid in full for its ownership and not for hire. You should and must insist your presence as you should know what happens with your truck.

Originally Posted by DDDHRUV

3. The dealer also happened to mention that on Tuesday when TATA technical team drops in attend to this complaint they would not like me (customer) to be present in the shop floor. I can wait in the waiting lounge or leave to come back later when called. Is this binding on me or can I insist my presence while inspection and repair is on.

[DDDHRUV]

As suggested by Sandeepmdas I ggogled on error code P0299 and found the following data on this topic mostly from FORD and GM truck forums.
I hope to provide this data to the TATA guys on Tuesday morning as some food for thought before they start opening up the wiring harness.

Code P0299:
Turbo Underboost. Fault sets when the difference between EP and command EP exceeds the limit for >30 seconds.This can be do to:
Faulty EP sensor,
VGT control valve slow to respond,
Stuck VGT valve,
Faulty PCM
A P0299 could be caused by a failing or failed turbo among other things.
More likely your EBP sensor is biased. The EBP should have a pressure reading of approximately 14.5 psi at sea level with the key on and engine off.
You need a scan tool to check this. If the EBP pressure reading looks ok,
I'll usually begin investigating a turbo related cause for this code.

The P299 is an underboost code. Since the solenoid is not allowing the VGT turbo vanes to work properly, proper boost is only attained at a specific RPM, not across the rev range as it should be.
I have had one out of about a 100 not be the exhaust back pressure sensor causing the code.
They can monitor the ebp sensor and compare it to the map and baro with the key on and engine off. they should all be very close to each other. they are all reding atmospheric
pressure, which is 14.5 at sea level on the pid. Even if the readings are close, replace the sensor and it should go away.

P0229 = throttle position sensor switch C/accelerator pedal position( APP ) switch C - circuit intermittent

[kkdelhi]

Originally Posted by gd1418

@DDDHRUV: I've always had a thumb rule about TATA vehicles; purchase their model after a year of the launch. By that time most of the complaints would have come in and the rectifications made.

I learnt it the hard way when I bought my 4x4 Safari in 1998 just after the launch..

I'm with DHRUV on this. Come on now, he couldn't have known his Safari would be diagnosed with a fault. Owning a new vehicle shortly after its launch is something not everybody can resist. But it's not the guy's fault. However, to give you your due, your advice might be more useful to those who are contemplating buying the new 2.2 VTT.

Also, do you mean that all TATA vehicles become perfect after one year has elapsed, and no further problems can be anticipated? Err...

No offence meant.

[DDDHRUV]

kkdelhi; I guess what gd1418 meant that after 1 year we would not have "unknown error codes" creeping up. Errors or malfunctions would persist but by then the TASS and TATA technical team would be well versed with the reason for particular error code and correct approach to resolve the same effectively.
I too did my share of waiting since October for the starter motor, steering column and damper pulley issues to settle down and finally take the plunge by March end. However no regrets as long as the issue is resolved convincingly.
I look at it positively the problem has made me understand intricate details about my vehicle which I would be otherwise oblivious to.

[gd1418]

@kkdelhi: I agree; it is irresistible to buy a new model just after its launch and I too succumbed to that. But learnt the hard way. I never said that it was Dhruv's fault in buying a new vehicle. I was trying to give an advice.

I never said also that TATA vehicles become perfect after one year of launch. Read my statement carefully:

"By that time most of the complaints would have come in and the rectifications made".

No offence meant here either..

Originally Posted by kkdelhi

I'm with DHRUV on this. Come on now, he couldn't have known his Safari would be diagnosed with a fault. Owning a new vehicle shortly after its launch is something not everybody can resist. But it's not the guy's fault. However, to give you your due, your advice might be more useful to those who are contemplating buying the new 2.2 VTT.

Also, do you mean that all TATA vehicles become perfect after one year has elapsed, and no further problems can be anticipated? Err...

No offence meant.

[condor]

DDDHRUV : Iraghava; Can I insist on a job card be opened for my vehicle to record all these activities.

A job card is a must for every activity that is done on the vehicle. Every TASS is supposed to follow this. You should not be asking for it. The JC is required even if the TASS later bills you nothing (warranty service). If they are not following the process, you can definitely let Tata Motors know.

DDDHRUV : Condor; The vehicle is has been handled by fortune with me just watching the process.

My bad. For a moment I thought the TASS at Thane was different than the one at Powai. What I was trying to say is - is there another TASS you can approach ?

[jkdas]

Well, I am surprised. Just talked with Nikil(a tbhpian) who owns a one month old Swift VXi. His car's front axles broke twice and his gearbox went kaput (reverse gear linkage fell off? ) or so when he was driving the car with a damn loud noise and hence spilling oil on the road till he was able to stop.

My point it, its not just with Tata. It can happen to anyone, its just that the news gets suppressed.

I pray that your Safari's issue isnt a major one but some issue with connection or wire shortage.

I drive my Safari like I used to do with my Xing and hence taking to it its limits in any way one can think off. I pray and hope Tata doesnt fail me and others.

I was wondering if someone from Tata Italy could help us updates about issues that they had come across 2.2Ls sold there. I want to know if only we in India have this issue with QC.

I also appreciate you for being patient during the period they experimented on your Safari. I just want my TASS people to be helpful and efficient if my Safari has an issue like it as for you.

[headers]

Originally Posted by DDDHRUV

Fault diagnosed as play in turbo charger shaft arresting free movement leading to short supply when the engine crosses say 2000 rpm leading to malfunction alert and SERVICE light getting on.

It would be the intake has come off the turbo. That is basically the PDO failure where the air intake of the turbo is not fitted correctly.

I've had the same problem with some cars.

will post later..

[dadu]

I would suggest:

- Get a Job card open, take a copy, thats your record.
- Speak personally to the technician from TATA, even if they dont allow you on the floor, ask them for reasons of the problems.
- Whereever possible, insist for replacement of all parts than rectification, that should put some pressure.

[kARTIK IYER]

I have been reading quite a few negative expreiences about Safari off late especially the ones in few days of buying .

We can term it as mere one off problems but it seems to me as a larger problem and not oneoff . It needs to be posted on the tata website via email on such issues for immediate attention .

I own a scorpio and was deciding between a Safari and scorpio . Somehow i personally didnt quite like the safari test drive and hence bought Scorpio .

Do not mistake me by thinking that i am comparing , even scorpio has it share of problems .

I think this needs some serious mesaage to Tata as i can just imagine missing a weekend trip or a comfortable drive with issues cropping and no reasons by the dealers till proved to them that "yes " there exists a problem .

Do keep posting on resolution and whats the experience post that and do spare time to write to the company ..

[nitrous]

OT:

It would be the intake has come off the turbo. That is basically the PDO failure where the air intake of the turbo is not fitted correctly.

Do you work with Garett also or is it just VGTs from KKK/TEL?

[Sankar]

Originally Posted by jkdas

My point it, its not just with Tata. It can happen to anyone, its just that the news gets suppressed.

Yep it could happen to any car true. But it seems that it's been happening to Tata vehicles on a higher number amongst others. But they have improved a lot with the new products with the new Safari compared to those first Sumo and Indica V1 days.

Why would anyone want to suppress the news? Anyone can post any problems they face/faced related to any car here on TBHP. I don't think anyone is suppressing any news on purpose.

And Swift is a pretty reliable car, the number of posts regarding Safari problems easily outnumber the Swift problems threads. The only issue with Swift is owners reporting bad clutch life more than anything else.

If Nikil has time and he wants to let other team-bhpians know in detail what happened to his Swift then it would be wonderful; and there will be a huge interest in the thread as there are a lot of Swift owners here.