Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Technical Stuff


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12th August 2009, 23:30   #181
Distinguished - BHPian
 
condor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Speed-brkr City
Posts: 9,817
Thanked: 2,931 Times
Default

@r2D2, Exide is actually recommened, alongside Amaron's.

I sometimes wonder if the manufacturers provide a reallly good OE unit, to try & capture the replacement market also. My truck's got SF as the OE unit. The way it has lasted, I can likely go for another SF. But will this new SF last just as good ?

So if a person did go for a new battery after that initial (approx) 4 yr usage of the OE battery, he would most likely have sold the car well before that replacement battery died. So he cant say with certainity about the quality of the replacement battery.

Case in point : Rudra just mentioned his OE Amaron lasted 5.5 yrs, and he is taking another Amaron. But for me, the replacement battery in our Indigo was a Amaron. It didnt last even 2 yrs ..
condor is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 13th August 2009, 00:12   #182
Senior - BHPian
 
Raccoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Poona
Posts: 1,832
Thanked: 103 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by condor View Post

The way things go, I think we should have a poll of how long did the replacement battery last. OE batteries always seem to last longest.
Huh?! Aren't the OEMs the one that don't last? At least thats been my!experience; and of many others on team-bhp! Manufactruers also have the incentive to supply lower quality to OEMs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by condor View Post
@r2D2, Exide is actually recommened, alongside Amaron's.

I sometimes wonder if the manufacturers provide a reallly good OE unit, to try & capture the replacement market also. My truck's got SF as the OE unit. The way it has lasted, I can likely go for another SF. But will this new SF last just as good ?

Case in point : Rudra just mentioned his OE Amaron lasted 5.5 yrs, and he is taking another Amaron. But for me, the replacement battery in our Indigo was a Amaron. It didnt last even 2 yrs ..
Going by the posts on Tbhp, very few people have experienced longer living Exides. Amaron definitely seems to be the favourite.

As for SF, the new ones MAY not be as good as SF is now part of Exide! Still, personally, if forced to choose between SF and Exide, I'd go for SF.

About the short life of your Amaron, a LOT depends on your pattern of usage and the charging system and load conditions in your vehicle. Are you sure you have checked these factors before blaming the battery alone?
Raccoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th August 2009, 02:23   #183
BHPian
 
SilentEngine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Mangalore-Bangalore
Posts: 896
Thanked: 85 Times
Default

My M800 battery lasted for 5 years, just replaced with Amaron last week.
SilentEngine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th August 2009, 10:15   #184
BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: NOIDA
Posts: 201
Thanked: 30 Times
Default

One of my car battery lasted for 5.6 years replaced the same with Amron.
anupam00 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 13th August 2009, 10:30   #185
gpa
Senior - BHPian
 
gpa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,724
Thanked: 204 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by greenh0rn View Post
Touch wood- my Santro's OEM battery still goes strong after 4 and a half years. Dunno what to credit for this!
+1 to this. My Santro is 4 and half years old as well and the battery is still going strong. Its an OEM Exide.

Which one is yours?

Cheers,
gpa
gpa is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 13th August 2009, 10:30   #186
Distinguished - BHPian
 
condor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Speed-brkr City
Posts: 9,817
Thanked: 2,931 Times
Default

Quote:
Raccoon : Huh?! Aren't the OEMs the one that don't last? At least thats been my!experience; and of many others on team-bhp! Manufactruers also have the incentive to supply lower quality to OEMs.
Considering that warranty for the OE battery is still with the Battery manufacturer, it will only hurt the battery manufacturer if he supplies sub-standard batteries to the car manufacturer.

See, the customer does not have a choice in the selection of the OE battery. He can only choose his replacement. That's why it makes more sense for the battery manufacturer to give a good OE set, to try & attract the replacement market.
Quote:
Raccoon : About the short life of your Amaron .. Are you sure you have checked these factors before blaming the battery alone?
Done .. before the comments. My OE SF battery is the one that has been subjected to bad usage.
condor is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 13th August 2009, 11:20   #187
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 3,066
Thanked: 242 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by condor View Post
Considering that warranty for the OE battery is still with the Battery manufacturer, it will only hurt the battery manufacturer if he supplies sub-standard batteries to the car manufacturer.
Makes eminent sense!
I'm with Exide because I never had a problem with the OEM Exides that came with the cars!
anupmathur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th August 2009, 11:36   #188
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 392
Thanked: 39 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gpa View Post
+1 to this. My Santro is 4 and half years old as well and the battery is still going strong. Its an OEM Exide.

Which one is yours?
Definitely an Exide! Even I am surprised at the long battery life- but yeah my car does see quite a gentle use with not many starts in a day (I'd say close to 2 on average)!
greenh0rn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th August 2009, 11:47   #189
gpa
Senior - BHPian
 
gpa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,724
Thanked: 204 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by greenh0rn View Post
Definitely an Exide! Even I am surprised at the long battery life- but yeah my car does see quite a gentle use with not many starts in a day (I'd say close to 2 on average)!
That's just great! My car has seen some extensive usage with many starts a day, power windows and ICE being on for hours. It has gotten weaker over the past 6 months and I plan to change it before the winter just to be on the safer side.

Cheers,
gpa
gpa is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 13th August 2009, 13:13   #190
BHPian
 
Rodie09's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Pune
Posts: 74
Thanked: 66 Times
Thumbs up Excellent OEM

My Santro's OEM lasted almost 5 Yrs. Came with the car in Jul 2004 and passed away in May 2009 with 47 K km on ODO.

It was an Exide.

Replaced with an amaron now, as general opinion on forum is Exides are nomore what they used to be and Amarons are VFM. Liked the packaging indeed, also elictricals and starter work a tad better, but that could just be psychological. Longevity ....only time will tell.
Rodie09 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th August 2009, 00:55   #191
Senior - BHPian
 
Raccoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Poona
Posts: 1,832
Thanked: 103 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by condor View Post
Considering that warranty for the OE battery is still with the Battery manufacturer, it will only hurt the battery manufacturer if he supplies sub-standard batteries to the car manufacturer.

See, the customer does not have a choice in the selection of the OE battery. He can only choose his replacement. That's why it makes more sense for the battery manufacturer to give a good OE set, to try & attract the replacement market.
Done .. before the comments. My OE SF battery is the one that has been subjected to bad usage.
On the other hand look at it this way - OEM batteries are bought in bulk by the vehicle manufacturer. So price, down to the last Rupee would be a consideration. Its likely that the lowest bidder might win. Normally, average customers won't blame the car maker too much in case just the battery fails.

Other fact is that OEM batteries carry the lowest warranties - 6 months to 1 year max! Is this supposed to say something about quality?!?!?!? In fact, if you ask me, this is one of the MOST important factors for judging battery quality. Has anyone ever heard of a 60 month warranty for a OEM battery?

Battery parameters like CCA, CS, etc. will hardly matter for OEM batteries. Discerning customers may look at these figures in the replacement market. Its a different thing that companies like Exide don't even see it fit to mention these facts even for replacement batteries (what are they hiding anyway...?).

Lastly take the case of the average automobile owner. Say his OEM Exide fails just after the warranty (many/most do, it seems). He dosen't have a lot of ideas about other available brands. Exide is the most prominent brand and also the most easily available. That makes him think that this must also mean that its the best quality brand... and others are probably not even as good as these. If you are stuck with a dead battery, getting an Exide is the easiest job - there is a shop in every locality! Availability of other brands is not half as easy. So his OEM battery fails, and he will most likely end up buying another Exide from the nearest shop. So if a company like Exide makes very long lasting OEM batteries, their earning in the much more lucrative replacement segment is sure to suffer.
Raccoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th August 2009, 10:58   #192
Senior - BHPian
 
vigsom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: AUH<->MAA
Posts: 1,622
Thanked: 469 Times
Default

Versa DX(with 4 ch amp,90/100 llights) - OEM Exide 5years and 9 months and still going strong

My experience with my Esteem was different - two Exides MF conked off in two years each.The third one,an Amaron, lasted four years
vigsom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th August 2009, 11:58   #193
Distinguished - BHPian
 
condor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Speed-brkr City
Posts: 9,817
Thanked: 2,931 Times
Default

Quote:
Raccoon On the other hand look at it this way - OEM batteries are bought in bulk by the vehicle manufacturer. So price, down to the last Rupee would be a consideration. Its likely that the lowest bidder might win. Normally, average customers won't blame the car maker too much in case just the battery fails.
Irrespective of how much the battery was supplied at, the wty for the battery is still with the batter maker.

The lower price is not a deterrent to the battery manufacturer since that is his assured revenue & sales stream. Better than having to advertize & maintain + support a huge chain of dealers.

Quote:
Raccoon : Other fact is that OEM batteries carry the lowest warranties - 6 months to 1 year max!
Base wty of the OE Battery will most times match base wty of the vehicle.
Quote:
Raccoon : Is this supposed to say something about quality?!?!?!? In fact, if you ask me, this is one of the MOST important factors for judging battery quality. Has anyone ever heard of a 60 month warranty for a OEM battery?
Which way should I look at it ? +ve or -ve ?

Quote:
Raccoon : Battery parameters like CCA, CS, etc. will hardly matter for OEM batteries. Discerning customers may look at these figures in the replacement market.
Is taken care of by the car manufacturer. The customer/end user will not go into the details of what spec parts the manufacturer uses - at that point the customer/end user is looking at the over package, in a overall reliability /performance / quality perspective.

Eg: the tyres. Skinny tyres from the car manufacturer are still accepted & used. It's only the discerning customer who goes for the upgrade.

Suffice to say the above point not substantial enough for this discussion.

Quote:
Raccoon : Its a different thing that companies like Exide don't even see it fit to mention these facts even for replacement batteries (what are they hiding anyway...?).
even Amaron doesnt.

Quote:
Raccoon : Lastly take the case of the average automobile owner. Say his OEM Exide fails just after the warranty (many/most do, it seems). He dosen't have a lot of ideas about other available brands. Exide is the most prominent brand and also the most easily available. That makes him think that this must also mean that its the best quality brand... and others are probably not even as good as these. If you are stuck with a dead battery, getting an Exide is the easiest job - there is a shop in every locality! Availability of other brands is not half as easy. So his OEM battery fails, and he will most likely end up buying another Exide from the nearest shop. So if a company like Exide makes very long lasting OEM batteries, their earning in the much more lucrative replacement segment is sure to suffer.
I see more Amaron shops around. Or Panasonic.

If OE part was not good enough, no guarantee the replacement will be any better.

Atleast with the OE unit, the car manufacturer will also put in pressure on the battery manufacturer to give good units. Warranty for most parts will be assumed for by the car manufacturer. It's only tyres, batteries, bulbs etc - basically 'consumables" that the car manufacturer will segregate. Else we would have been asked to go Fenner for every belt, Minda for many other parts, and so on. It's in the best intrests of both - the car manufacturer & the battery manufacturer to provide a decently lasting OE equipment.
condor is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 15th August 2009, 16:25   #194
Senior - BHPian
 
Raccoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Poona
Posts: 1,832
Thanked: 103 Times
Default

Responses given in bold text :

Quote:
Originally Posted by condor View Post
Irrespective of how much the battery was supplied at, the wty for the battery is still with the batter maker.

The lower price is not a deterrent to the battery manufacturer since that is his assured revenue & sales stream. Better than having to advertize & maintain + support a huge chain of dealers.

Can't understand this statement. What I'm saying is that an auto maker will most likely buy batts from the lowest bidder! And the lowest bidder can and does skimp on quality. The lower warranty offered on the OEM battery is an indication of that!

Base wty of the OE Battery will most times match base wty of the vehicle.Which way should I look at it ? +ve or -ve ?

I don't think so?? Battery warranty usually runs for a different duration from the vehicle warranty. Heck, even engines can have seperate warranties. Anybody else here can confirm whats the case with different manufacturers?

Is taken care of by the car manufacturer. The customer/end user will not go into the details of what spec parts the manufacturer uses - at that point the customer/end user is looking at the over package, in a overall reliability /performance / quality perspective.

It is true that most vehicle buyers will not have a look at the battery specs. In fact one does not have a choice anyway... so its not even relevant. And thats EXACTLY why they can supply the most low end, low cost battery with minimal warranty.

even Amaron doesnt.

Amaron definitely DOES mention these parameters. Please have a better look next time. Exide does not. Don't know about other manufacturers.

I see more Amaron shops around. Or Panasonic.

Don't know about your city, but here in Poona, it definitely is not so. Exide is everywhere. Amaron you would need to take some trouble to search. Panasonic/Base Terminal... has ONLY one dealer in the whole city! I don't think it can be too different in any city in India. Perhaps others can corroborate?

If OE part was not good enough, no guarantee the replacement will be any better.

The fact that replacement batteries almost always carry higher warranties is an indication that they are better.

Atleast with the OE unit, the car manufacturer will also put in pressure on the battery manufacturer to give good units. Warranty for most parts will be assumed for by the car manufacturer. It's only tyres, batteries, bulbs etc - basically 'consumables" that the car manufacturer will segregate. Else we would have been asked to go Fenner for every belt, Minda for many other parts, and so on. It's in the best intrests of both - the car manufacturer & the battery manufacturer to provide a decently lasting OE equipment.

Again, your statement is self contradictory. Battery warranty is apparently handled by the battery manufacturer, right? So the auto maker looses nothing by not supplying good OEM batteries. The assumption that the car manufacturer will put pressure on the battery manufacturer for better quality does not hold up to reason. On the other hand it is more than likey that they will put pressure on them to reduce prices only.

Last edited by Raccoon : 15th August 2009 at 16:27.
Raccoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th August 2009, 00:00   #195
Distinguished - BHPian
 
condor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Speed-brkr City
Posts: 9,817
Thanked: 2,931 Times
Default

@Racoon, let's forget it.
condor is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Your new cars suspension: How long should it last on our roads? Rtech The Indian Car Scene 102 15th November 2015 07:23
How long will a battery last without being used ? mithun Technical Stuff 12 2nd October 2015 14:44
Did this last weekend - Chennai-Trichy-Dindigul-Kodaikanal-Madurai-Trichy-Chennai srikanthpotluri Route / Travel Queries 2 2nd November 2011 02:20
When did you last get stuck and what were the learnings Baburajs 4x4 Technical 48 1st May 2009 12:01
Did your dealership tell you about ABS and Airbags during delivery of your car? amit The Indian Car Scene 24 10th February 2008 12:44


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 17:50.

Copyright 2000 - 2016, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks