Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Technical Stuff


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 31st May 2010, 10:09   #181
Senior - BHPian
 
sumeethaldankar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 2,618
Thanked: 966 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
What the dealer seems to have done is a load test that cleared the battery and your alternator/charging circuit. If the battery was bad it wouldnt have cranked the engine at the second attempt.

Here's a common thing - some starters do not disengage from the flywheel when the car starts and the starter continues to turn at revs far beyond what it's designed for. The starter may be overheating coz of this. Get it checked, carbon brushes and all.

BTW, another suspect is the starter relay.

Let us know how it goes.

Cheers!
I had the alternator rebuild in 2006 and i am really hoping that is not the issue but i will get it checked out from the garage where i had got it done.However i also think could it be due to loose fan belt after all the same was changed in 2007 and there is a faint chin chin sound coming , will have that inspected as well.
sumeethaldankar is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 31st May 2010, 13:21   #182
Senior - BHPian
 
Raccoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Poona
Posts: 1,832
Thanked: 105 Times
Default

Why don't you take a service battery from the dealer for a day and see how it goes? If your dealer does not have it, you can always go to any other battery dealer... most dealers rent out service batts for about 75 - 100 per day. Just make sure it good and fully charged.

Load test does not necessarily absolve the battery 100%.
Raccoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th June 2010, 20:55   #183
Senior - BHPian
 
sumeethaldankar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 2,618
Thanked: 966 Times
Default

Unfortunaltely the garage owner from whom i got the alternator rebuilt is shut as he is out of town so will have to wait till next week till he arrives.Meanwhile i am still having starter getting stuck problems every alternate crank or so.

Does the battery amperage has to match with the alternator output or so.Eg If the alternator is of a bigger type will it need more juice from the battery.My prev a/c delco did not had any problems with the same alternator.Also the alternator is not a standard maruti but is slightly bigger in size with some parts from the esteem's as mentioned by my mechanic when he had fitted it more than 4 years ago.It also needs a slighly bigger fan belt for the pulley as the standard for the 800 gets loosened soon. My current battery is exide max.
sumeethaldankar is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 5th June 2010, 23:28   #184
Senior - BHPian
 
R2D2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Punya Nagari
Posts: 1,740
Thanked: 893 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sumeethaldankar View Post
Unfortunaltely the garage owner from whom i got the alternator rebuilt is shut as he is out of town so will have to wait till next week till he arrives.Meanwhile i am still having starter getting stuck problems every alternate crank or so.

Does the battery amperage has to match with the alternator output or so.Eg If the alternator is of a bigger type will it need more juice from the battery.My prev a/c delco did not had any problems with the same alternator.Also the alternator is not a standard maruti but is slightly bigger in size with some parts from the esteem's as mentioned by my mechanic when he had fitted it more than 4 years ago.It also needs a slighly bigger fan belt for the pulley as the standard for the 800 gets loosened soon. My current battery is exide max.
Sumeet, I dont think there's something wrong with the alt. If there was it wouldnt be charging the battery and over a period of time, your starter wouldn't crank the engine no matter how many times you turned the key.

Get the alt, starter and belt checked when you visit your electrical shop. And no, there's no such thing as 'matching' of battery + alternator. To give you an example, I have frequently use a 1.25A charger to 'top up' my car's 45AH battery. A M800's alt should be around 35A or so.

To maximise battery life what is key is how long the alt or charger takes to charge the battery. Car engines are not kept on continously for extended period every time so it becomes important for the alt to charge the battery to 100% state of charge ASAP to prevent sulphation and loss of capacity.

A battery is used as a reserve. In fact alts, the primary source of electricity in a vehicle, are sized according to total electrical load/consumption of the car when all circuits including accessories are switched on. It would include a portion of the alt's capacity being used for charging the batt and plus a margin to cater to peaks in demand. Remember, the sum of electric power for a load is first provided by the alt and, if it exceeds the alt's capacity, by the battery...not the other way round as many people believe.

Cheers!
R2D2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th June 2010, 19:35   #185
Senior - BHPian
 
sumeethaldankar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 2,618
Thanked: 966 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
Get the alt, starter and belt checked when you visit your electrical shop.
Pardon my ignorance,but are the alternator and starter motor 2 different components or the one and the same?
sumeethaldankar is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 6th June 2010, 19:55   #186
Senior - BHPian
 
R2D2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Punya Nagari
Posts: 1,740
Thanked: 893 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sumeethaldankar View Post
Pardon my ignorance,but are the alternator and starter motor 2 different components or the one and the same?
They are 2 different components - the alternator generates electricity whilst working and provides electrical power to the entire car and charges the battery (AKA lead acid accumulator i.e. a storage device). The starter, as its name suggests, cranks/starts the engine.
R2D2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th June 2010, 20:25   #187
Senior - BHPian
 
R2D2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Punya Nagari
Posts: 1,740
Thanked: 893 Times
Default Exide Battery - TLC

Was travelling out of town for about 3 weeks hence removed the OEM Exide battery from the car and connected to an automatic 'microprocessor' controlled charger. The charger maintains the battery at 100% state of charge. Bit of tender loving care should go some way in extending its life. :-)

Cheers!
R2D2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th June 2010, 20:54   #188
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Kollam, Kerala
Posts: 368
Thanked: 2 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
Was travelling out of town for about 3 weeks hence removed the OEM Exide battery from the car and connected to an automatic 'microprocessor' controlled charger. The charger maintains the battery at 100% state of charge. Bit of tender loving care should go some way in extending its life. :-)

Cheers!
What are the brand options available in the case of battery charger?
janitha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th June 2010, 21:06   #189
Senior - BHPian
 
R2D2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Punya Nagari
Posts: 1,740
Thanked: 893 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by janitha View Post
What are the brand options available in the case of battery charger?
Hi..this charger is the Battery Tender international (1.25A). It is made by Deltran Corp.

Rgds,
R2D2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th June 2010, 21:58   #190
Senior - BHPian
 
sumeethaldankar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 2,618
Thanked: 966 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
They are 2 different components - the alternator generates electricity whilst working and provides electrical power to the entire car and charges the battery (AKA lead acid accumulator i.e. a storage device). The starter, as its name suggests, cranks/starts the engine.
ok that clears up much of my confusion , so i guess maybe the battery or the alternator may not be a fault.I will have to get the starter motor fixed , which means more money drained out my wallet again. But i guess a 13 year old car will have it's problems.

Last edited by sumeethaldankar : 6th June 2010 at 22:01.
sumeethaldankar is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 6th June 2010, 23:04   #191
Senior - BHPian
 
R2D2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Punya Nagari
Posts: 1,740
Thanked: 893 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sumeethaldankar View Post
ok that clears up much of my confusion , so i guess maybe the battery or the alternator may not be a fault.I will have to get the starter motor fixed , which means more money drained out my wallet again. But i guess a 13 year old car will have it's problems.
You're right, a 13 year old car will certainly have its problems. I recommend you get the starter checked first along with the starter relay. You can also check the alternator, battery and timing belt tension at the same time.

From what you've said so far looks like this is the 1st time the starter is giving problems. 13 years of service IS a long time for any component whether electrical or mechanical.

Cheers!
R2D2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th June 2010, 13:05   #192
Senior - BHPian
 
sumeethaldankar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 2,618
Thanked: 966 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
You're right, a 13 year old car will certainly have its problems. I recommend you get the starter checked first along with the starter relay. You can also check the alternator, battery and timing belt tension at the same time.

From what you've said so far looks like this is the 1st time the starter is giving problems. 13 years of service IS a long time for any component whether electrical or mechanical.

Cheers!
Yup this is the first time in 13 years that the starter motor has given problem ,never had issues with the same before.Guess it was due for some attention after all those years.I had the timing belt replaced last year so i hope there is no problem with that.Will definitley get the starter motor checked this saturday.
thanks
sumeethaldankar is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 7th June 2010, 14:22   #193
Distinguished - BHPian
 
sgiitk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Kanpur
Posts: 7,089
Thanked: 3,648 Times
Default

The number of batteries changed when the real culprit was the starter must be legend. A quick test - crank the engine for 30 seconds, while monitoring the voltage. It should drop to ~6V and then quickly recover to 9+ and in a couple of minutes become 11+. If so then the battery is Ok.

Loose belt is another. I myself changed the battery in my old Escory Mk I in 1973/4. Only when the new one also went flat did I check and find the loose belt.
sgiitk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2010, 13:35   #194
Senior - BHPian
 
R2D2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Punya Nagari
Posts: 1,740
Thanked: 893 Times
Default OEM Exide Yellow Flag raised

Quote:
Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
Was travelling out of town for about 3 weeks hence removed the OEM Exide battery from the car and connected to an automatic 'microprocessor' controlled charger. The charger maintains the battery at 100% state of charge. Bit of tender loving care should go some way in extending its life. :-)

Cheers!
Confirmation that my 20-21 month old Exide OEM batt (mfred Aug '08) may have been built to a price.

Came home from my outstation journey for a few days and it remained fully charged courtesy the charger. I used the car for completing local errands that my better half had in store for me once I returned. The car wasnt used for 2 days and this morning the starter was turning over noticeably slower. After measuring the alt charging voltage (at idle) using a DVM and a few hours later an OCV test, I was suspicious. I took it to the near by Exide dealer this morning who did a SpGr test and confirmed that the battery is partially discharged. Yikes!

He volunteered to recharge and observe/test it over the next few days whilst I travel out of town again. Its fate will be known on Monday.

Here's hoping.

Rgds,
R2D2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th June 2010, 20:18   #195
Senior - BHPian
 
R2D2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Punya Nagari
Posts: 1,740
Thanked: 893 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
He volunteered to recharge and observe/test it over the next few days whilst I travel out of town again. Its fate will be known on Monday.
Right, the dealer tells me that it kind of cleared the load test immediately after charging. He said I could 'try to use it'. But it's not retaining a charge over a period of time (days).

Well, I am not someone who can use a battery that is on death row. So it is sayonara to my OEM batt that lasted for 1 year 8 months. Way to go Exide!

My dealer tells me that Exide offers only the Matrix in 45AH capacity range. This is a sealed battery which you cannot monitor other than via its OCV. Should it run low on water you cannot top it up, which in turn does not make me feel confident. It is possibly time to say bye bye Exide.

Considering either Tata Green and Amaron as replacements. There's not much of a difference in price. I will purchase the battery in the next few days.

Cheers!

Last edited by R2D2 : 20th June 2010 at 20:20.
R2D2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bat Mobile - Exide on road Service amtak Technical Stuff 65 23rd April 2017 22:50
Free Jump starts & Battery help - Exide Batmobile, Mumbai (and other cities) GTO Mumbai 36 28th April 2016 23:50
Battery goin dead... again and again... COUGAR 4x4 Vehicles 21 1st August 2009 18:27
A minor but irritating issue after getting a new Exide battery finneyp Technical Stuff 11 13th February 2009 12:48
FS: EXIDE 32Ah Battery shrivz Shifting gears 3 24th July 2008 20:27


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 11:57.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks