Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Technical Stuff


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 27th September 2009, 20:32   #121
Senior - BHPian
 
Raccoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Poona
Posts: 1,832
Thanked: 103 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MuzzledMoose View Post
Hi Guys,
I just had a problem with the Battery and replaced it on my Logan. The OE battery is exide from Renault. Exide guys say that the OE battery will not last more than 2 years (Freedom brand Maintenance Free). Also i find the voltage from the charging terminals is about 12.8 volts only when the battery is connected. If i raise the engine it goes to about 13V. Is really the Battery is culprit or Regulator/Alternator is culprit (there is no indication of anything faulty in the console)
The OE battery is just 22 months old
Didn't you try to get your OE battery charged using a battery charger? The battery guys will tell you anything to sell one more battery. While OE batteries may not last too long, its not a given that they have to fail in 2 years. In all likely hood, the battery was ok, and the problem is with your charging system. Get it fixed asap, like R2D2 said, else your new battery is a goner.

Which is your replacement battery btw? Another Exide??
Raccoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th September 2009, 22:18   #122
BHPian
 
MuzzledMoose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: THRISSUR
Posts: 185
Thanked: 18 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
OE batteries are notoriously flaky when it comes to service life. But that's not surprising considering car mfrs pay bottom of the barrel prices for OEM batts. You get what you pay for.

That aside, 12.8 at idle and 13v at higher speeds is low. Voltage at the terminal should read between 13.8 and 14.2 volts at engine idle speeds (~800 RPM). Higher revs (~2000-2500 RPM) should produce about 14.4v.

I'd get the alternator's regulator checked ASAP if I were you. You say you replaced the battery, the new one will also be undercharged and wont last very long. Didnt your dealer check the charging system whilst fitting the new battery? They normally do.

Rgds,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raccoon View Post
Didn't you try to get your OE battery charged using a battery charger? The battery guys will tell you anything to sell one more battery. While OE batteries may not last too long, its not a given that they have to fail in 2 years. In all likely hood, the battery was ok, and the problem is with your charging system. Get it fixed asap, like R2D2 said, else your new battery is a goner.

Which is your replacement battery btw? Another Exide??
Yup. The new battery is an Exide Matrix. Reason for this is that nobody other than Exide picked my call for a service and i had an urgent requirement. I will get the alternator regulator checked ASAP. New battery is just fitted only. The OE exide itself the charge status indicator was not working and its a sealed maintenance free battery. The reason why i was keen to replace it was to avoid any further issues since i was planning for a long drive sometimes next week. The feedback for OE batteries these days especially the maint free stuff are not good
MuzzledMoose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th September 2009, 22:40   #123
Senior - BHPian
 
R2D2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Punya Nagari
Posts: 1,469
Thanked: 509 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MuzzledMoose View Post
Yup. The new battery is an Exide Matrix. Reason for this is that nobody other than Exide picked my call for a service and i had an urgent requirement. I will get the alternator regulator checked ASAP. New battery is just fitted only. The OE exide itself the charge status indicator was not working and its a sealed maintenance free battery. The reason why i was keen to replace it was to avoid any further issues since i was planning for a long drive sometimes next week. The feedback for OE batteries these days especially the maint free stuff are not good
I think you did the smart thing by replacing an iffy battery. Will probably save you some grief later on during your long distance trip.

The Exide Matrix has lead calcium chemistry on both +ve and -ve plates which, at least in theory, should make it lose very little water and last long. I think Exide offers a 4 or 5 year warranty on it.

Just remember the Matrix is fully sealed and if by chance the battery is overcharged and loses water then you are going to head for a lot of issues. In case of a sealed batt, over charging is a death sentence because high voltages actually cause the battery to lose water and in case of the Matrix, you cannot top off the batt with distilled water. It is imperative that you keep your car's charging system in good working condition.

Wishing you good luck on your travels! Do post your experiences & pics in the Travelogue section of TBHP.

Cheers!
R2D2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th September 2009, 00:36   #124
Senior - BHPian
 
Raccoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Poona
Posts: 1,832
Thanked: 103 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MuzzledMoose View Post
Yup. The new battery is an Exide Matrix. Reason for this is that nobody other than Exide picked my call for a service and i had an urgent requirement. I will get the alternator regulator checked ASAP. New battery is just fitted only. The OE exide itself the charge status indicator was not working and its a sealed maintenance free battery. The reason why i was keen to replace it was to avoid any further issues since i was planning for a long drive sometimes next week. The feedback for OE batteries these days especially the maint free stuff are not good
That is strange! Here, both Amaron and Base Terminal/Panasonic were more than eager to home deliver their product to me, within the hour! If you cant get a dealer to do it, you can call the company...

Your OE Exide was a sealed battery? Thats news to me!! Generally sealed batteries cost more, so I don't see how/why they will make sealed batteries for OEMs. Are you sure the filler caps were not concealed underneath a top cover?

Whats the price and rating for the Matrix, btw?
Raccoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th September 2009, 11:39   #125
BHPian
 
MuzzledMoose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: THRISSUR
Posts: 185
Thanked: 18 Times
Default

The new battery costed me 7636. The old battery was bartered for 636 and finally I paid 7K. The main concern for me that the old battery charge indicator was not working
MuzzledMoose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th September 2009, 11:43   #126
BHPian
 
MuzzledMoose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: THRISSUR
Posts: 185
Thanked: 18 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
I think you did the smart thing by replacing an iffy battery. Will probably save you some grief later on during your long distance trip.

The Exide Matrix has lead calcium chemistry on both +ve and -ve plates which, at least in theory, should make it lose very little water and last long. I think Exide offers a 4 or 5 year warranty on it.

Just remember the Matrix is fully sealed and if by chance the battery is overcharged and loses water then you are going to head for a lot of issues. In case of a sealed batt, over charging is a death sentence because high voltages actually cause the battery to lose water and in case of the Matrix, you cannot top off the batt with distilled water. It is imperative that you keep your car's charging system in good working condition.

Wishing you good luck on your travels! Do post your experiences & pics in the Travelogue section of TBHP.

Cheers!
But i believe exide matrix should have some mechanism inside to avoid overcharging!!!
MuzzledMoose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th September 2009, 11:49   #127
Senior - BHPian
 
R2D2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Punya Nagari
Posts: 1,469
Thanked: 509 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MuzzledMoose View Post
But i believe exide matrix should have some mechanism inside to avoid overcharging!!!
Unfortunately no battery has any mechanism that prevents overcharging. Batt mfrs can make the plates resistant to abuse in terms of slight over charge, vibrations, heat etc. But that doesnt mean they become tolerant of any level of abuse.

Also, the Exide OEM battery, called 'Freedom', which has a white container with red top, is a low maintenance battery and is NOT maintenance free. It requires topping up every 6-12 months depending on temperature, charging system and type of use. It also does not have a magic eye to detect drops in electrolyte levels or specific gravity primarily due to cost. The Magic Eye is reserved for after market models such as the Exide Matrix or ATB.

Rgds,
R2D2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th September 2009, 11:55   #128
Senior - BHPian
 
Raccoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Poona
Posts: 1,832
Thanked: 103 Times
Default

The indicator magic eye on the batt is anyway good only for checking the state of one cell. Not terribly useful...

Last edited by Raccoon : 28th September 2009 at 11:57.
Raccoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th September 2009, 12:02   #129
BHPian
 
MuzzledMoose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: THRISSUR
Posts: 185
Thanked: 18 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
Unfortunately no battery has any mechanism that prevents overcharging. Batt mfrs can make the plates resistant to abuse in terms of slight over charge, vibrations, heat etc. But that doesnt mean they become tolerant of any level of abuse.

Also, the Exide OEM battery, called 'Freedom', which has a white container with red top, is a low maintenance battery and is NOT maintenance free. It requires topping up every 6-12 months depending on temperature, charging system and type of use. It also does not have a magic eye to detect drops in electrolyte levels or specific gravity primarily due to cost. The Magic Eye is reserved for after market models such as the Exide Matrix or ATB.

Rgds,
In my logan i had a white bottom with black top exide freedom. it had the magic eye although it never worked. And i was sure that there was no way to fill water or acid as it was completely sealed. Maybe after removing the company seals one could have found it but i was not interested to tamper the battery seal.
Either way its a very cheap idea to give batteries that last only for a couple of years when they are OEM. And the warranty on Exide matrix is pro-rata meaning 30 months replacement and after that you will get discount on a new battery from 31st to 60th month. The discounts will decrease as the months climb. Kind of marketing gimmick.
MuzzledMoose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th September 2009, 12:04   #130
Senior - BHPian
 
mithun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Cochin
Posts: 1,923
Thanked: 44 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raccoon View Post
That is strange! Here, both Amaron and Base Terminal/Panasonic were more than eager to home deliver their product to me, within the hour! If you cant get a dealer to do it, you can call the company...

Your OE Exide was a sealed battery? Thats news to me!! Generally sealed batteries cost more, so I don't see how/why they will make sealed batteries for OEMs. Are you sure the filler caps were not concealed underneath a top cover?

Whats the price and rating for the Matrix, btw?
Exide Matrix that I bought as a replacement for stock Alto battery costed about Rs.4000 8 months ago. It comes with a 60 months(36 + 24) prorata warranty.

Forgot the rating though !
mithun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th September 2009, 12:18   #131
BHPian
 
MuzzledMoose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: THRISSUR
Posts: 185
Thanked: 18 Times
Default

Mine is a 12V 60AH battery. Forgot the model number though.
MuzzledMoose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th September 2009, 15:18   #132
Senior - BHPian
 
Raccoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Poona
Posts: 1,832
Thanked: 103 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MuzzledMoose View Post
The discounts will decrease as the months climb. Kind of marketing gimmick.
Ya, to try and keep you as a captive customer. Do you recall whats the minimum pro rata discount applicable in the last month(s)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mithun View Post
Exide Matrix that I bought as a replacement for stock Alto battery costed about Rs.4000 8 months ago. It comes with a 60 months(36 + 24) prorata warranty.

Forgot the rating though !
Wow, Exides are pricy! The Amaron range would be significantly cheaper. Regarding the point R2D2 made - even thought the GO and above models are supposed to not require any topping up during their lifetime, in normal use, they do have filler caps so you can add water if the need ever arises, due to any abnormal conditions.
Raccoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th September 2009, 19:24   #133
Senior - BHPian
 
gigy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: mumbai
Posts: 1,321
Thanked: 40 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MuzzledMoose View Post
Yup. The new battery is an Exide Matrix. Reason for this is that nobody other than Exide picked my call for a service and i had an urgent requirement. I will get the alternator regulator checked ASAP. New battery is just fitted only. The OE exide itself the charge status indicator was not working and its a sealed maintenance free battery. The reason why i was keen to replace it was to avoid any further issues since i was planning for a long drive sometimes next week. The feedback for OE batteries these days especially the maint free stuff are not good
I think you should check the alternator output before going on a long trip.
gigy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th September 2009, 20:04   #134
Senior - BHPian
 
R2D2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Punya Nagari
Posts: 1,469
Thanked: 509 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mithun View Post
Exide Matrix that I bought as a replacement for stock Alto battery costed about Rs.4000 8 months ago. It comes with a 60 months(36 + 24) prorata warranty.

Forgot the rating though !
You'd have purchased an MA35L battery...it's a 35AH capacity batt.

Rgds,
R2D2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th September 2009, 20:10   #135
Senior - BHPian
 
R2D2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Punya Nagari
Posts: 1,469
Thanked: 509 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raccoon View Post
Wow, Exides are pricy!
Actually only the Matrix is a bit pricey. That's coz it's the only batt other than the Tata Green using Calcium doped +ve and -ve plates. Other low maintenance batts have calcium only on +ve OR -ve but not both. The only other mfr to offer this type of batt is Tata Green. They call them green batts coz they're supposed to last about 1 lakh Kms which would translate about 5-10 years of use for a majority of car owners which in turn saves the environment by reducing the frequency of batt replacements.

Rgds,
R2D2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Free Jump starts & Battery help - Exide Batmobile, Mumbai (and other cities) GTO Mumbai 36 28th April 2016 23:50
Bat Mobile - Exide on road Service amtak Technical Stuff 64 13th October 2014 10:01
Battery goin dead... again and again... COUGAR 4x4 Vehicles 21 1st August 2009 18:27
A minor but irritating issue after getting a new Exide battery finneyp Technical Stuff 11 13th February 2009 12:48
FS: EXIDE 32Ah Battery shrivz Shifting gears 3 24th July 2008 20:27


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 02:39.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks