Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Technical Stuff


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 9th November 2014, 13:39   #151
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: NH209
Posts: 1,605
Thanked: 685 Times
Default re: Black smoke from diesel engines

Quote:
Originally Posted by adit mishra View Post
And the case of adulterated fuels is surely the most important criterion. All cars have different EGR valve settings that are predefined. Maybe the EGR valve reflow gas volume for the multijet is more when compared to the Renault.
EGR valve opens at idling or at partial loads only. It will shut at wide open throttle so it has nothing to do with black smoke(until the valve itself is malfunctioning).

IMHO, it is the driver's lack of understanding of a particular engine's characteristics that causes such black smoke.
ramzsys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th November 2014, 16:24   #152
BHPian
 
adit mishra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Bhubaneswar
Posts: 71
Thanked: 9 Times
Default re: Black smoke from diesel engines

Quote:
Originally Posted by ramzsys View Post
EGR valve opens at idling or at partial loads only. It will shut at wide open throttle so it has nothing to do with black smoke(until the valve itself is malfunctioning).

IMHO, it is the driver's lack of understanding of a particular engine's characteristics that causes such black smoke.
But ECU controls the EGR and different cars must have different ECU settings. I am not sure. Maybe some experts can share their opinions. And partial loads can be different for different engines. The secret behind driving a diesel car is to find the perfect peak torque point to shift gears. In the diesel Ritz this point is between 2000-2500 rpm. The best place to be in is the third gear. You will never find excess smoke in a car driven sedately. Plus I always get 20-22 kmpl every time in Bhubaneswar.
adit mishra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th November 2014, 19:13   #153
BHPian
 
vsoneja's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 27
Thanked: 59 Times
Default re: Black smoke from diesel engines

just my two cents.

Having driven my 2007 Fiesta EXI (D) for over 1.11 lac kilometers i noticed a marginal drop in mileage and black smoke under hard acceleration. all the services were done at the ford centers and at regular intervals. All oils timing chains etc were done at regular intervals, this included things like a rubber engine mounting etc. I intend to keep this car for some more time hence did not mind spending some money on regular repairs and general upkeep.

Two weeks back the engine started making a kush-kush-kush kind of a noice which was in synchronization with the regular engine noise. the service center diagnosed this as injector bushes gone kaput just by listening to the noise and suggested getting them replaced. same was done , did not cost much and got te regular service also done at the same time.


with that being done mileage i can say for sure the car is back to the regular mileage i was getting after the run in period ( an average of 630 kms to a tankful in city ) and have not noticed any black smoke in my rear view mirror.
vsoneja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th November 2014, 13:11   #154
BHPian
 
adit mishra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Bhubaneswar
Posts: 71
Thanked: 9 Times
Default re: Black smoke from diesel engines

Quote:
Originally Posted by vsoneja View Post
just my two cents.

Having driven my 2007 Fiesta EXI (D) for over 1.11 lac kilometers i noticed a marginal drop in mileage and black smoke under hard acceleration. all the services were done at the ford centers and at regular intervals. All oils timing chains etc were done at regular intervals, this included things like a rubber engine mounting etc. I intend to keep this car for some more time hence did not mind spending some money on regular repairs and general upkeep.

Two weeks back the engine started making a kush-kush-kush kind of a noice which was in synchronization with the regular engine noise. the service center diagnosed this as injector bushes gone kaput just by listening to the noise and suggested getting them replaced. same was done , did not cost much and got te regular service also done at the same time.


with that being done mileage i can say for sure the car is back to the regular mileage i was getting after the run in period ( an average of 630 kms to a tankful in city ) and have not noticed any black smoke in my rear view mirror.
Was that a khus-khus sound or a khich-kich type of sound. Some Fiestas make that sound. Typically is there any difference between the old Fiesta and the new Classic? On pen and paper they show same figures but the sales man told me that the old Fiesta had a bulkier and heavier engine. The engine sound is also on the higher side when compared to the Classic. The very first Fiesta Diesel had a 1.4 D carried over from the Ford Ikon.
adit mishra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th November 2014, 18:39   #155
BHPian
 
vsoneja's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 27
Thanked: 59 Times
Default re: Black smoke from diesel engines

Quote:
Originally Posted by adit mishra View Post
Was that a khus-khus sound or a khich-kich type of sound. Some Fiestas make that sound. Typically is there any difference between the old Fiesta and the new Classic? On pen and paper they show same figures but the sales man told me that the old Fiesta had a bulkier and heavier engine. The engine sound is also on the higher side when compared to the Classic. The very first Fiesta Diesel had a 1.4 D carried over from the Ford Ikon.
Well it was sound that was in sync with the normal engine noise and actually sounded like if you were to deflate a tyre in tune with the engine noise. something like leaking air/gas from a cylinder. hope you get it.

And it was very prominent and clear not something that was there in earlier. now that the bushes have been changed the mileage has also improved and the engine is back to the normal noise that it had on day one. Foom an engine point of view the engine is the same in the old fiesta and the classic and the ford ikon that carried the 1.4 EXI Diesel engine. the Figo also caries the same engine though im not sure if the mappings may have been changed a bit in the figo.
vsoneja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th November 2014, 14:33   #156
BHPian
 
adit mishra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Bhubaneswar
Posts: 71
Thanked: 9 Times
Default re: Black smoke from diesel engines

Quote:
Originally Posted by vsoneja View Post
Well it was sound that was in sync with the normal engine noise and actually sounded like if you were to deflate a tyre in tune with the engine noise. something like leaking air/gas from a cylinder. hope you get it.

And it was very prominent and clear not something that was there in earlier. now that the bushes have been changed the mileage has also improved and the engine is back to the normal noise that it had on day one. Foom an engine point of view the engine is the same in the old fiesta and the classic and the ford ikon that carried the 1.4 EXI Diesel engine. the Figo also caries the same engine though im not sure if the mappings may have been changed a bit in the figo.
I will definitely confirm if such sound exists in the Ford Fiesta - My guru(boss) has a Ford Fiesta and clocked 175000 kms in it. Gem of an Engine. Diesel 1.4D. It is good to hear that the noise is no longer there. For the ardent car lover the slightest noise will give sleepless nights
Seems like the bushes change did the job. And the noise is back to Day 1??? That implies your Engine is in flawless condition!!! Do you just follow regular oil change intervals? Or some special care like-system D??? Mineral oil or fully synthetic?
adit mishra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th December 2014, 11:22   #157
BHPian
 
vinayrathore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: DL-9C/KA-01
Posts: 497
Thanked: 287 Times
Default re: Black smoke from diesel engines

Hi guys!

Recently, my Accent Viva CRDi suffered a blown seal in the diesel pump and it started throwing diesel. Had to take the car on a flat bed to the Hyundai ASS who said they cannot repair the pump and the entire pump unit needs to be changed and quoted some 48k for the same. Also the part was to take some 4~5 weeks to reach Bangalore.

I took the car to my trusted FNG, Automech (featured in the directory) and he got the same repaired through a Bosch service center. He also clean the entire air intake plumbing including the intercooler to rule out any blockages. After I took the car, I noticed significant drop in torque at take off speeds. I even have to shift to first while passing over a speed breaker at speeds below 20KMPH. The car also started emitting thick black smoke at all speeds specially when revved hard.

I got it checked again and they scanned the ECU for errors. Found oxygen sensor not working. They suggested opening the sensor and cleaning it with petrol and putting back. This led to the error going away however, there is no improvement in the situation. If I ignore the smoke and drive it spiritedly, I do not feel any drop in power at speeds above 40kmph.

The car has done 1.7 lacs and I had changed rings at 1.4 at HMP Delhi. It was running like a breeze all this while before the leak and even did Delhi Bangalore without skipping a beat. Its the first car I bought so have an emotional connect and I do not intend to sell it. Plus over all its in excellent health.

What can be wrong? Do I need a new pump?
vinayrathore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th December 2014, 11:33   #158
Distinguished - BHPian
 
a4anurag's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 8,669
Thanked: 10,958 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinayrathore View Post
Hi guys!

Recently, my Accent Viva CRDi suffered a blown seal in the diesel pump and it started throwing diesel.
Do check the MAF and air filter.

Looking at the issue repeating post cleaning, do look at the MAF sensor in the air intake.

Do look at the injectors and clean them if necessary.

Anurag.
a4anurag is online now   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 8th December 2014, 11:57   #159
BHPian
 
vinayrathore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: DL-9C/KA-01
Posts: 497
Thanked: 287 Times
Default re: Black smoke from diesel engines

Quote:
Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
Do check the MAF and air filter.

Looking at the issue repeating post cleaning, do look at the MAF sensor in the air intake.

Do look at the injectors and clean them if necessary.

Anurag.
Hi Anurag,

Forgot to mention the injectors too were inspected during the pump repair and found to be okay. Additionally, I also did the System D treatment during this weekend. Used 20ml System D for 15ltrs of Diesel. Did this coz 2ml/ltr was what I saw suggested on our forum vs 1ml/ltr mentioned on the pack so took the middle path

No noticeable improvement seen. Air filter too was replaced recently. However, will get the MAF checked.

Last edited by vinayrathore : 8th December 2014 at 12:04.
vinayrathore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th December 2014, 12:57   #160
BHPian
 
vinayrathore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: DL-9C/KA-01
Posts: 497
Thanked: 287 Times
Default re: Black smoke from diesel engines

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinayrathore View Post
Hi Anurag,

Forgot to mention the injectors too were inspected during the pump repair and found to be okay. Additionally, I also did the System D treatment during this weekend. Used 20ml System D for 15ltrs of Diesel. Did this coz 2ml/ltr was what I saw suggested on our forum vs 1ml/ltr mentioned on the pack so took the middle path

No noticeable improvement seen. Air filter too was replaced recently. However, will get the MAF checked.
Spoke to Naveen, my FNG about MAF. According to him, MAF would throw error if not functioning well. Also spoke to Diesel Tune on Hosur road. They suspect Diesel Pump misalignment. Can that be the problem?

Update: Naveen has called one of his friend who works at Hyundai ASS and knows this stuff to refit the pump. Will be done tomorrow.

Last edited by vinayrathore : 9th December 2014 at 13:13.
vinayrathore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th December 2014, 14:14   #161
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 2,025
Thanked: 365 Times
Default re: Black smoke from diesel engines

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinayrathore View Post
Spoke to Naveen, my FNG about MAF. According to him, MAF would throw error if not functioning well. .
I am sure Naveen will be able to help out he is quite knowledgeable, however
try DIY cleaning of MAF sensor with Iso-Propyl alcohol you can buy it at
big surgical shops ( Cash pharmacy at residency store keeps it) make sure you buy Iso-propyl alcohol and not surgical spirit ( ethyl alcohol).

MAF sensor has 2 thin platinum wires and layer of oil on it gives wrong reading.
Petrol is not the right agent to clean it.
amitk26 is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 9th December 2014, 15:45   #162
BHPian
 
vinayrathore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: DL-9C/KA-01
Posts: 497
Thanked: 287 Times
Default re: Black smoke from diesel engines

Quote:
Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
I am sure Naveen will be able to help out he is quite knowledgeable, however
try DIY cleaning of MAF sensor with Iso-Propyl alcohol you can buy it at
big surgical shops ( Cash pharmacy at residency store keeps it) make sure you buy Iso-propyl alcohol and not surgical spirit ( ethyl alcohol).

MAF sensor has 2 thin platinum wires and layer of oil on it gives wrong reading.
Petrol is not the right agent to clean it.
Hi Amit,

Thanks for the inputs. Actualy I tried to locate the MAF but could not. I can see one prominent sensor just where the airflow pipe comes out of the Airfilter. Is that the one? The screws are not the standard type and I am not sure if I can open it. I however removed the cable from the socket and blow cleaned it.

Regards
Vinay
vinayrathore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th December 2014, 15:47   #163
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 2,025
Thanked: 365 Times
Default re: Black smoke from diesel engines

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinayrathore View Post
Hi Amit,

Thanks for the inputs. Actualy I tried to locate the MAF but could not. I can see one prominent sensor just where the airflow pipe comes out of the Airfilter. Is that the one? The screws are not the standard type and I am not sure if I can open it. I however removed the cable from the socket and blow cleaned it.

Regards
Vinay
Yes MAF sensor is placed at the Airflow pipe , buy Isopropyl alcohol may be Naveen can open the sensor for you.
amitk26 is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 9th December 2014, 15:52   #164
BHPian
 
vinayrathore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: DL-9C/KA-01
Posts: 497
Thanked: 287 Times
Default re: Black smoke from diesel engines

Quote:
Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
Yes MAF sensor is placed at the Airflow pipe , buy Isopropyl alcohol may be Naveen can open the sensor for you.
Sure! Will do it tomorrow once I am there. There are lots of chemist shops around that place. Should not be a problem in finding IPA.

Thanks a lot Amit!
vinayrathore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th December 2014, 17:24   #165
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 3,068
Thanked: 243 Times
Default re: Black smoke from diesel engines

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinayrathore View Post
... They suspect Diesel Pump misalignment. Can that be the problem?
...
You should also get the hoses for the turbocharger and intercooler checked for tightness and integrity. Air starvation causes black smoke.
anupmathur is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Do Diesel engines generate more Torque than Petrol engines? ex670c Technical Stuff 224 25th November 2013 12:20
Difference between old engines and new engines (petrol and diesel) srijit Technical Stuff 32 26th January 2011 10:20
black smoke from exhaust 2fast4u Technical Stuff 32 10th August 2010 13:48
(Royal Enfield) Thick black smoke when revved hard. ron_9191 Motorbikes 43 13th October 2009 13:50
Verna crdi: black smoke from exhaust live2drive Technical Stuff 32 26th November 2008 11:43


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 19:41.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks