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Old 11th December 2014, 12:08   #166
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Default re: Black smoke from diesel engines

Update: Had ordered ELM327 Bluetooth OBD2 adapter which got delivered yesterday morning. Works perfectly with my 2004 Viva CRDi which I was not 100% sure. Scanned for errors got none. MAF was showing ~10 g/s even when the engine was not running and 15~18 g/s on idle fluctuation wieredly to sometimes 35. In the meantime Naveen spoke to one of his friends working at a Hyundai ASS and explained the thing. Naveen then asked me to speak to him too. As per him, it could be MAF or the EGR Solenoid switch. The later would be around 15k to replace.

Researched more about EGR issues and found this thread: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...diy-style.html

This was the exact issue I was facing only in my case, the torque below 1500 rpm too was a problem. Tried blocking the tube V1 as explained by RedMM340 on post 44 on page 3 and Voila!! The car came almost back to normal. Drove it for couple of Kms then took it to Naveen just to check.

Naveen again opened the MAF sensor and since I could not find IPA, he cleaned it with diluted thinner. After cleaning, the readings on shut engine came to 6.88 g/s and it shows increased to 25~30 g/s on idle. Hope this is normal. Also Naveen will try to search for a spare EGR valve as he says we need to be 100% sure before going for it. He also tried talking to his Hyundai Friend who did not pick up phone to check if its fine to drive with that valve shut.

I also tanked up again and filled 3ml System D per liter of Diesel.

Have to make a 500 km round trip to Chitradurg tomorrow. Fingers crossed.
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Old 11th December 2014, 13:51   #167
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Default re: Black smoke from diesel engines

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Originally Posted by vinayrathore View Post
Also Naveen will try to search for a spare EGR valve as he says we need to be 100% sure before going for it. He also tried talking to his Hyundai Friend who did not pick up phone to check if its fine to drive with that valve shut.
Good to see the root cause for the problem appearing.

Driving with a blocked EGR valve is going to harm the environment and not the car.

IPA can be found at any medical stores.

Anurag.
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Old 11th December 2014, 20:16   #168
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Default re: Black smoke from diesel engines

Coming back to IPA not every medical store sells it in Bangalore.
Look for stores marked as "Surgical store" , Nearest option I know in Koramangala is Navdurga surgicals on 100 feet road , near to Ooty Chocolates on 12th main.

As I see from your post MAF shows marked improvement after cleaning with thinner, Did you try driving without blocking EGR and just with clean MAF ?

Also you need to reset the ECU after MAF cleaning , Just remove negative terminal of battery for few minutes.
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Old 11th December 2014, 20:41   #169
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Default re: Black smoke from diesel engines

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Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
Coming back to IPA not every medical store sells it in Bangalore.
Look for stores marked as "Surgical store" , Nearest option I know in Koramangala is Navdurga surgicals on 100 feet road , near to Ooty Chocolates on 12th main.

As I see from your post MAF shows marked improvement after cleaning with thinner, Did you try driving without blocking EGR and just with clean MAF ?

Also you need to reset the ECU after MAF cleaning , Just remove negative terminal of battery for few minutes.
Any specific point for the need to reset the ECU after the cleaning of the EGR and MAF?

Anurag.
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Old 12th December 2014, 00:15   #170
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Default re: Black smoke from diesel engines

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Any specific point for the need to reset the ECU after the cleaning of the EGR and MAF?

Anurag.
Well just a hearsay the ECU should be reset after air filter change and MAF cleaning apparently it "learns" with new O2 values. However I have no concrete evidence to support this.
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Old 12th December 2014, 00:26   #171
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Default re: Black smoke from diesel engines

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Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
Well just a hearsay the ECU should be reset after air filter change and MAF cleaning apparently it "learns" with new O2 values. However I have no concrete evidence to support this.
Even I have been thinking on these lines but many technicians / friends whom I have spoken to have said there no such difference in performance if the ECU is reset after any job on the engine unless there is an issue with the ECU itself.

Quote:
Myth

There is quite a bit of mythology revolving around resetting the ECU. Many people mistakenly believe that they need to reset the ECU after installing major engine modifications. Others believe resetting will resolve engine problems. Neither are correct.
Not sure how reliable the source is but somewhere it does make sense so pasting the information here. Please prove me wrong in case there is any fault.

SOURCE: http://www.technomotive.com/theory/myth/ecureset.htm

Anurag.
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Old 13th December 2014, 15:28   #172
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Default re: Black smoke from diesel engines

So I took the car on a 500 kms round trip to Chitradurga yesterday. Started at 9am from home at Koramangala and encountered traffic. The car behaved great in slow traffic with low end torque back to normal. As soon as I got past the city to the open highway, it was easy and smooth till 100~110. However, whenever I tried to push the car above that, it would just not do the old 'tap for power' I used to enjoy the most above 100 kmph. All the way till Chitradurga, I was driving with this big worry about something major having gone wrong with the engine. Horrific thoughts about an engine rebuild all throughout.

While coming back just as we started, I realized the power loss I was experiencing was actually engine gone into limp mode. It was just not going past 2500 RPM. I would go till 100 normally and just as I was pushing it further, it would barely touch 120 and then a sudden feeling of power loss and it would come back to 100~110 which translates exactly to 2500 RPM in 5th gear. If I disengage the clutch, it still would not rev past 2500 but if I let it to idle for few secs and then rev, it would rev freely till redline. Just as I was doing all these experiments, amidst all the horror stories going in my mind, I thought could it be because of the shut EGR valve? I immediately stopped and opened it. And oh boy oh!! I was back to the 'tap to power' mode. No limping nothing. Actually I could keep up with a 5 series beemer for about 50 kms (Before I stopped for coffee at a Kamat ) whom I had made my pilot car as I normally do on the highways. Just love this car. Almost 10 years and 170k kms, it still doesn't stop surprising me.

So, its official, I need a new EGR valve. But smoke is still a worry. It is less but still prominently present at all RPMs and engine load conditions. What else can I try?

Thanks Amit and Anurag for the precious inputs.
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Old 13th December 2014, 15:42   #173
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Default re: Black smoke from diesel engines

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinayrathore View Post
So, its official, I need a new EGR valve. But smoke is still a worry. It is less but still prominently present at all RPMs and engine load conditions. What else can I try?

Thanks Amit and Anurag for the precious inputs.
EGR Valve has been blocked so it is not working correctly, hence the smoke.

In addition to the new EGR Valve, get a car once checked on OBD and reset any errors stored in the ECU.

As you have already cleaned/checked the injectors and the air filter nothing much is left to do.

Anurag.
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Old 13th December 2014, 16:23   #174
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Default re: Black smoke from diesel engines

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Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
EGR Valve has been blocked so it is not working correctly, hence the smoke.

In addition to the new EGR Valve, get a car once checked on OBD and reset any errors stored in the ECU.

As you have already cleaned/checked the injectors and the air filter nothing much is left to do.

Anurag.
Hi Anurag,

EGR Valve has to be either open or closed and I have tried driving in both the conditions. Am I missing something on this?

Also I scanned the car using my ELM327 but did not see any error so far.

Regards
Vinay
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Old 13th December 2014, 18:47   #175
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Hi Anurag,

EGR Valve has to be either open or closed and I have tried driving in both the conditions. Am I missing something on this?
EGR valve functioning depends on throttle input so that does determine how much open/close should the valve be.

Anurag.
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Old 13th December 2014, 20:43   #176
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Oh! I thought it is binary in function. Lets wait for the valve.

Thanks a lot for the help!
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Old 13th December 2014, 21:00   #177
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Default re: Black smoke from diesel engines

That is why in Damam city of saudi Arabia Diesel vehicles are banned. Even Bus public transport is on petrol.
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Old 15th December 2014, 17:20   #178
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Default re: Black smoke from diesel engines

In the meantime, been reading a lot of stuff regarding EGR issues and this particular article scares me a bit.

http://www.dogandlemon.com/articles/...l-egr-problems

Do I also really need to check the EGR main valve for problems? Or since we have seen that we are able to open and close it using the vacuum tube, there's nothing to worry?

I remember I M&M ASS had changed complete EGR system on my 4 month old Xylo back in 2009 thankfully under warranty.
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Old 15th December 2014, 19:03   #179
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Default re: Black smoke from diesel engines

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinayrathore View Post
In the meantime, been reading a lot of stuff regarding EGR issues and this particular article scares me a bit.

http://www.dogandlemon.com/articles/...l-egr-problems
Yeah right.

What a path-breaking article this must be.

Just a few examples:
Quote:
EGR valve is supposed to open to allow the carbon dioxide in the exhaust to cool the combustion chamber
Quote:
...really nasty problems occur when the EGR valve jams closed: without the cooling effect of the exhaust gases, the engine starts to overheat.
Quote:
when the engine overheats, more lubricating oil can enter the combustion chamber and the engine can start running on lubricating oil even if the diesel fuel supply is cut off
I wonder if someone can explain how such things happen. When did hot exhaust gases, including hot carbon dioxide, cool anything, especially combustion chambers? And what are the chances that lubricating oil enters the combustion chamber when the engine overheats - and keeps running the engine on lubricating oil supply?
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Old 15th December 2014, 19:35   #180
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Default re: Black smoke from diesel engines

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinayrathore View Post
In the meantime, been reading a lot of stuff regarding EGR issues and this particular article scares me a bit.

Do I also really need to check the EGR main valve for problems? Or since we have seen that we are able to open and close it using the vacuum tube, there's nothing to worry?
Checking the EGR valve will not harm the engine/car. Right?!

Get it checked and be at peace buddy. Please read articles from a better source. Reading articles like this will get you in tension unnecessarily.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
What a path-breaking article this must be.

I wonder if someone can explain how such things happen.
Can we give the writer of that article an Award?

Anurag.

Last edited by a4anurag : 15th December 2014 at 19:41.
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