Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Technical Stuff


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 3rd June 2008, 11:21   #61
BHPian
 
sajands's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 830
Thanked: 135 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
I think the Verna Diesel has a clutch lock.
Can some owner confirm?
Hey anupmathur,

That's correct all Verna's diesel's come with an clutch lock, where you need to depress the clutch in order to start the car.

Regards,
Sajan
sajands is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd June 2008, 13:19   #62
Distinguished - BHPian
 
supremeBaleno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Weekdays@Chennai, Weekends@Kerala
Posts: 5,164
Thanked: 1,638 Times
Default

Hey chetan, to each his own. You find them not worth the effort, no issues. But that does not automatically make the practices ridiculous.

There could be a 1000 such guidelines which would supposedly increase the life of your car or battery or increase FE or whatever. We obviously cannot follow each one of them. So, we just pick what makes sense to us and discard the rest. Lot of ideas get thrown here - with no compulsion for anyone to follow them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chetanhanda
switching off AC and ICE and waiting for fuel pump to stop whirring is ok, but anyways the during startup all the power is fed to the starter motor, AC, ICE and even headlights are automatically given reduced power/cut off during ignition.
If power is anyway given on priority to the starter motor, why bother about switching off AC, ICE etc ? And will hell break loose if you start the car before the fuel pump whirring stops ? Heck, how many normal car users even wait for that or are even aware of the whirring ? So, as I said, to each his own.

And when someone says FE, it does not mean that he is just concerned about the FE his car gives or his cash outgo on fuel that he is whining about. It could also mean having concern for a non-replenishable resource, which in some years would just get over and so would be good for us to use carefully and without wasting.
supremeBaleno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd June 2008, 13:37   #63
BHPian
 
PatchyBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Earth
Posts: 822
Thanked: 1,189 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bblost View Post
co-brother in law: the guy who is married to my wife' sister.
I thought it was Co-brother. No in-law bit.

Cheers,
Rajan
PatchyBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd June 2008, 14:53   #64
DKG
Senior - BHPian
 
DKG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 3,706
Thanked: 928 Times
Default

The majority of modern automobiles have light aluminium alloy blocks, pistons and heads. The tolerances of these engines are machined for optimal performance at operating temperatures. It is imperative on a modern car you reach operating temperature as quickly as you can to minimise wear. Usually even the piston bore clearances reach optimal and even spacing at operating temperature.

So to cut a long story short on modern cars when you start the car don't let it warm up by idling, that takes longer. Simply drive the car as it warms up quicker and reaches optimal tolerances quickest. That habit of letting a car warm up while idling is outdated and may actually increase cylinder wear. Also avoid high rpm when cold as your engine wears most when cold. Just drive away gently and don't bother too much about idling.
DKG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd June 2008, 15:25   #65
Team-BHP Support
 
bblost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 9,650
Thanked: 6,663 Times
Default

DKG I disagree with the no idling part.
Idling is IMO very important.
Simply because the oil would be at the lowest part of sump and it will take it some time to lubricate the engine fully.

However its very important that the idling is for not more than one minute as oil itself needs to warm up before reaching its optimum temperature.

So long story short idling is good but do not idle for more than a minute.

driving an mpfi car and the way my parking lot is located, I generally don't touch the accelarator for almost 1/2 a km.
The AC is also switched on around that spot.
bblost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd June 2008, 15:29   #66
DKG
Senior - BHPian
 
DKG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 3,706
Thanked: 928 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bblost View Post

Idling is IMO very important.
I don't recall any owner's manual provided by manufacturers recommending you idle, would you know of any reputed company suggesting it?
DKG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd June 2008, 15:57   #67
DKG
Senior - BHPian
 
DKG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 3,706
Thanked: 928 Times
Default

I can think of two occasions where idling the engine before driving would be recommended. One is in sub zero conditions, and the other when the car is being started after extended disuse (chances of the cylinder walls being dry).

Other than these two occasions I don't recall a standard idling recommendation by manufacturers.

bblost I was referring to idling till the engine temp reaches the usual halfway mark. That I felt was not required. Your one minute idle I think naturally happens as you adjust the mirrors, place the seat belt etc.

Last edited by DKG : 3rd June 2008 at 16:01.
DKG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd June 2008, 16:03   #68
Senior - BHPian
 
finneyp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 2,619
Thanked: 160 Times
Default

DKG, I agree with you on the Idling part!

Modern cars do not require any idling, once you start the car, just slowly roll the car in lower gears and then get into the regular driving mode.
finneyp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd June 2008, 16:08   #69
Team-BHP Support
 
bblost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 9,650
Thanked: 6,663 Times
Default

I am referring an idle period between 30 seconds to a minute.

Do this before starting my first trip of the day and at the end of almost every trip that was more than 10kms long.

Will try and find some car makers statement supporting idling.
Google is returning links on why idling in front of signals and stores is causing global warming.
bblost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd June 2008, 16:10   #70
Distinguished - BHPian
 
supremeBaleno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Weekdays@Chennai, Weekends@Kerala
Posts: 5,164
Thanked: 1,638 Times
Default

Agree with DKG. IMO, if idling was required/mandatory before driving off, you would find it in the manual.
And I guess it is mentioned in the manuals of some diesel cars. If so, stick to it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bblost
Google is returning links on why idling in front of signals and stores is causing global warming.
See, bblost, you are dooming the planet because of your insistence on idling.

Last edited by supremeBaleno : 3rd June 2008 at 16:12.
supremeBaleno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd July 2008, 09:24   #71
Team-BHP Support
 
Rehaan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 22,381
Thanked: 22,606 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gd1418 View Post
...
2: Since the reverse gear is the most powerful of all gears in the car, puts a lot of stress on a cold engine hence enhancing wear & tear and affecting the FE....
Actually quite the opposite GD bhai.
Reverse is usually the lowest geared gear - hence it would cause the least stress on the engine as it would be providing the most torque at the wheels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
...on a cold engine, a reverse move uses up more fuel than it would if you were going forward.
Quote:
Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
... I don't think FE will be same if you traverse a particular distance in forward and reverse - reverse would consume more fuel....
GUYS!!

In terms of Fuel Efficiency there is virtually no difference between using 1st and reverse to start the car.

It could be an endless debate of ideal gear ratio, what speed you reverse at on average, what the RPMs are in reverse vs 1st, do spur gears(reverse) create more friction than helical gears(1st etc), yada yada - but the point is - you are reversing for such a short distance it does NOT make a difference at all!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by gd1418 View Post
1: In an emergency it is easier to drive without wasting time reversing the car
Above is the ONLY good reason for not starting in reverse that i have seen in this thread so far.


Quote:
Originally Posted by chetanhanda View Post
...
1] car is in neutral or the clutch is depressed : how much of battery life will you guys increase ? hmmmm... let me guess 18 seconds added to the entire life of the battery over a period of 2 years?...
Pressing the clutch when cranking having a benefit to the battery in the long run is something i have actually seen mentioned in quite a few reasonably trustworthy places. I've read that it can increase battery life by upto a year!

Sounds suprising, but im not willing to label it a complete myth since cranking a car is the most amp-sucking and painful thing for your battery to do, especially in the cold. By pressing the clutch you are disengaging a whole lot of mass (clutch, gearbox parts etc) from having to rotate during the cranking - and hence easing part of the load on your battery while it is pushing out those cranking amps.

cya
R

Last edited by Rehaan : 3rd July 2008 at 09:26.
Rehaan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd July 2008, 11:01   #72
BHPian
 
funkydevil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Dubai, UAE
Posts: 358
Thanked: 80 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DKG View Post
The majority of modern automobiles have light aluminium alloy blocks, pistons and heads. The tolerances of these engines are machined for optimal performance at operating temperatures. It is imperative on a modern car you reach operating temperature as quickly as you can to minimise wear. Usually even the piston bore clearances reach optimal and even spacing at operating temperature.

So to cut a long story short on modern cars when you start the car don't let it warm up by idling, that takes longer. Simply drive the car as it warms up quicker and reaches optimal tolerances quickest. That habit of letting a car warm up while idling is outdated and may actually increase cylinder wear. Also avoid high rpm when cold as your engine wears most when cold. Just drive away gently and don't bother too much about idling.
Hey DKG,

What about in automatic cars? Since the NHC dosent have a temp gauge, i usually wait for the green engine cold light to go off, which does take a while. I usually wait for the light to go off, only then do i put it in drive and move. Plus the engine rpm is high when the engine is cold, despite me driving the car before the light going off. Dose this mean my engine is getting worn out faster??
funkydevil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd July 2008, 11:57   #73
BHPian
 
smokin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: delhi/gurgaon
Posts: 280
Thanked: 13 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by reignofchaos View Post
Certain cars with a clutch lock will not crank when the clutch is not depressed when starting. Very few examples of those exist in India but almost all cars in the US have a clutch lock.

well we have few cars here !! i am driving hyundai elantra and it has that feature that it will not run until you press the clutch !!




Well i have one question , i am driving hyundai santro having a tacho(aftermarket ofcourse) ,in the morning when i start the engine idle is goin to 1100-1200rpm's but if i keep it idling for a minute then it automatically comes to 850rpm !!

This is to warm up the engine i think ,well what is the consequence if i keep the engine idle for a minute ,it will just burn maximum of 10ml of fuel i suppose but ultimately it will be satisfaction of my heart !!

i think if we drive without idling then it will burn more fuel than the normal one because it's like choke to the engine which automatically increases the engine rev to get it into temperature ..



And for the issue of the reverse ,me too have to reverse the car because in front there is another car so i have to reverse it for exit !

but i start in first gear,release the clutch move an inch or so and then reverse ..
i found something interesting to tell that if i directly reverse then sometimes i hear the (katach) sound from the gear box ,but if i opt for the above mention method , i never heard that sound !!!

Well correct me if i am wrong!!
smokin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th January 2009, 17:01   #74
gpa
Senior - BHPian
 
gpa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,772
Thanked: 273 Times
Default

I'm continuing this discussion from another thread that was closed recently. The procedure I use to start my car is as follows:
  1. Engage handbrake
  2. Check to ensure that all electrical components (stereo, AC, headlights) are switched off
  3. Engage clutch
  4. Crank the engine
Engaging the clutch while cranking is proven to decrease load on the starter motor and hence increase battery life

Cheers,
gpa
gpa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th January 2009, 17:34   #75
BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Delhi
Posts: 477
Thanked: 24 Times
Default

Strictly for Petrol cars driven Daily

In Winters

FIRST START

Turn on Ignition > Wait for 3-4 secs (hear the hum of the fuel pump ) > Crank the engine > Idle for minimum of 30 secs and max of 1 min > Drive of slowly

If car stalls > repeat exact procedure

Subsequent starts > Remove the idle part.

In Summers

First Start

Turn on Ignition > Wait for 3-4 secs (hear the hum of the fuel pump ) > Crank the engine > Idle for max of 30 secs > Drive of slowly

Subsequent starts > Remove the idle part

Elito
Elito11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Skoda Octavia engine shutting off, right after start gigy Technical Stuff 11 20th November 2014 08:33
Modifications for Gypsy King - Does the sequence of modifications matter? khan_sultan Modifications & Accessories 18 6th September 2009 14:02
Which is the right Sequence Clutch-Brake Or Brake-Clutch ankura12 Technical Stuff 2 9th July 2007 10:02


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 00:45.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks