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Old 4th June 2008, 11:44   #31
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Originally Posted by rajivanoj View Post
Am having lancer diesel, i have changed oil in nearby garage with 15/40 pennzoil which costs about Rs.675/- . but once i went to lancer authorised showroom , their service display board says have to change oil for 10000kms (i think its for new vehicle) .

But am confused that whether to change oil at 5000 kms or 10000kms? if 10000kms, then which oil should be used and what is its cost?

Dont change at 5000 kms or 10000kms. Run the vehicle as it is, one fine day the engine will burn out & when you shall erbuild you will have to change the oil.

Dont mean to offend anyone. All said and done there is a general & obvious rule

5000 kms in case of mineral or regular oil

10000 kms in case of fully synthetic oils

1000-1500 kms incase of engine rebuild

also you could go for a oil change @ 4-4.5 K if the car is driven extensively at high rpms.

Oil filter change with every oil change.
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Old 4th June 2008, 12:45   #32
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I see various figures suggested on this thread for oil change interval - 5000kms, 6000kms, 7500kms etc, with the majority rooting for an oil&filter change every 5000kms. And this is irrespective of the manufacturer's recommended interval.

So, what is the basis for this 5000km figure ? Is it just a ball-park figure or is it based
on some research/studies which indicate that this is the best interval ? Or is this figure suggested because most manufacturers initially (pre-MPFI era) used to recommend 5K km oil changes ?

P.S. : I checked the oil in our Swift after a run of 6500kms (oil was changed at 1000km and now odo at 7500kms) and it looks pretty good visually. Comparitively, the oil in my bike (HH CD100) would turn all black in just 3000kms.
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Old 4th June 2008, 12:59   #33
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I see various figures suggested on this thread for oil change interval - 5000kms, 6000kms, 7500kms etc, with the majority rooting for an oil&filter change every 5000kms. And this is irrespective of the manufacturer's recommended interval.

So, what is the basis for this 5000km figure ? Is it just a ball-park figure or is it based
on some research/studies which indicate that this is the best interval ? Or is this figure suggested because most manufacturers initially (pre-MPFI era) used to recommend 5K km oil changes ?

P.S. : I checked the oil in our Swift after a run of 6500kms (oil was changed at 1000km and now odo at 7500kms) and it looks pretty good visually. Comparitively, the oil in my bike (HH CD100) would turn all black in just 3000kms.
i guess the 5k kms oil change is indeed a ball-park figure.
whether its 5k or upto a 10k change the best shot would be to check the dipstick to note the visocsity, color and decide. the oil finally looses it properties accoridng to your driving style, terrain and overheated engine.

Last edited by Jr Godzilla : 4th June 2008 at 13:00.
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Old 4th June 2008, 13:04   #34
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The colour of the oil has nothing to do with its lubricating properties. As long as its viscosity and lubricity is fine no need for any change and some ppl can tell that by touching it.

Follow the manufacturer's quoted change interval and all will be fine. Rest all is perception.

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P.S. : I checked the oil in our Swift after a run of 6500kms (oil was changed at 1000km and now odo at 7500kms) and it looks pretty good visually. Comparitively, the oil in my bike (HH CD100) would turn all black in just 3000kms.
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Old 4th June 2008, 13:35   #35
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@dadu, I agree that color has nothing to do - was just mentioning the visual difference, because we do not have the means to check the viscosity to check if it it is still good for use or not.

Also, compared to the 7500kms run by the Swift, my bike has done close to a lakh kms - so not a fair comparo too.

And yes, I agree that it is best to follow the manufacturer's recommendation.
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Old 4th June 2008, 13:40   #36
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Originally Posted by dadu View Post
The colour of the oil has nothing to do with its lubricating properties. As long as its viscosity and lubricity is fine no need for any change and some ppl can tell that by touching it.

Follow the manufacturer's quoted change interval and all will be fine. Rest all is perception.
(petrol engines)
i disagree on the color part as i have noted the change in color of oil which is golden brown when new,
couple of months with some kms on its more of a brownish color
and on one occassion when i changed after 7 mths 3 days it was jet black.

the color of engine oil to some extent is in conjunction with its viscosity. my opinion, i may be wrong.

Last edited by Jr Godzilla : 4th June 2008 at 13:42.
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Old 4th June 2008, 14:03   #37
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You can never change your engine oil too frequently. The more you do it, the longer the engine will last. The whole debate about exactly when you change your oil is somewhat of a grey area. Manufacturers tell you every 10,000 miles or so. Your mate with a classic car tells you every 3,000 miles. Ole' Bob with the bad breath who drives a truck tells you he's never once changed the oil in his car. Fact is, large quantities of water are produced by the normal combustion process and, depending on engine wear, some of it gets into the crank case. If you have a good crank case breathing system it gets removed from there PDQ, but even so, in cold weather a lot of condensation will take place. This is bad enough in itself, since water is not noted for its lubrication qualities in an engine, but even worse, that water dissolves any nitrates formed during the combustion process. If my memory of chemistry serves me right, that leaves you with a mixture of Nitric (HNO3) and Nitrous (HNO2) acid circulating round your engine! So not only do you suffer a high rate of wear at start-up and when the engine is cold, you suffer a high rate of subsequent corrosion during normal running or even when stationary.
The point I'm trying to make is that the optimum time for changing oil ought to be related to a number of factors, of which distance travelled is probably one of the least important in most cases. Here is my selection in rough order of importance:

1. Number of cold starts (more condensation in a cold engine)
2. Ambient temperature (how long before warm enough to stop serious condensation)
3. Effectiveness of crank case scavenging (more of that anon)
4. State of wear of the engine (piston blow-by multiplies the problem)
5. Accuracy of carburation during warm-up period (extra gook produced)
6. Distance travelled (well, lets get that one out of the way)

If you were clever (or anal) enough, you could probably come up with a really clever formula incorporating all those factors. However, I would give 1, 2, and 3 equal top weighting. Items 1 to 3 have to be taken together since a given number of "cold" starts in the Dakar in summer is not the same as an equal number conducted in Fargo in January. The effect in either case will be modified by how much gas gets past the pistons. What we are really after is the severity and duration of the initial condensation period. All other things being equal, that will give you how much condensate will be produced and I would suggest that more than anything else determines when the oil should be dumped.
Dammit Chris, get to the point already!

Hang on a tic - if you really want the answer, there's a couple more factors you need to take account of: Crank-case scavenging (that's the clever term for sucking the nasty fumes back out of the crank-case) - or lack of it - is a crucial multiplying factor affecting all the other items listed above. As an example, the worst I've heard of was a Ford Fiesta of the mid 70s or so. It's crank-case fume extraction was via a tiny orifice directly into the inlet manifold which obviously could not handle any significant volume of crank-case fumes without upsetting the carburation. The car in question had been used almost exclusively for 5 mile journeys to/from work, shopping etc, and it had always been serviced "by the book". [averagecar]Despite (or because of) this, the engine was totally buggered at 40,000 miles. Alternatively you might get a car that by virtue of excellent crank case fume scavenging could tolerate many more cold starts than one without.

Taking all these into consideration, my philosophy would be to totally ignore the distance and change the oil three times a year - about November, February and May. Move these dates a bit according to the severity of the winter. An average family car will do around 14,000 miles per year and about 2/3 of that will fall in the May - November period. At the end of that period, the car will have just about touched on the recommended oil change distance - but all done at reasonable temperatures and including long distance runs during vacations and good weather. During the Nov - Feb. period it may accumulate only 2 or 3 thousand miles, all low temperature starts and mostly short runs. The Feb. to May period is likely to be about the same.
About 10 or 15 years ago, an article in the ANWB journal (ANWB is the Dutch equivalent of the AA - or the AAA in the American case) reached more or less the same conclusion that distance was not very important. In their case they applied this to their road service fleet, which typically once started in the morning never got cold. In effect, they hardly ever changed the oil! I seem to remember 30,000 miles between oil changes being quoted. I also seem to remember that they had some kind of water or acid indicator attached to the end of the dipstick and went by that rather than distance.
That's a politician's answer - you've dodged the entire issue!
[5000]

Have I? I don't know how far you drive in a year, where you live, the style of your driving or anything else so I can't tell you what's right for your car. Personally, I changed the oil and filter in my 1985 Audi Coupe every 5,000 miles. It had done over 150,000 miles when I sold it, wasn't leaking and didn't consume any oil. If you must have a figure from me, then 5,000 is it.
Source:Car maintenance bibles: Everything you need to know about engine and motor oil
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Old 4th June 2008, 14:16   #38
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@nitrous: That was a good read.

So my changing the engine oil at 9k kms was a close enough figure given that this article mentions oil change at 8k kms.
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Old 4th June 2008, 14:50   #39
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Thanks, nitrous.
It mentions 5000 miles, which would be like 8000 kms. So now we have another number.

The article is I guess, from the N.American point of view. Would it need adjustments to factor in the difference in driving/usage/weather conditions in India ?
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Old 4th June 2008, 16:26   #40
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Color of oil is dependant on the engine design, for instance, even on the day I drain the oil on my HINO engine, its almost brand new in color as that engine makes very little soot, OTOH, on the OM616 turbo which is a traditional soot champ, it turns black in a day, that doesn't mean oil is bad or has gone bad, its means the oil is doing an excellent job of suspending the soot and it will leave the engine once its drained instead of staying inside the engine.
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Old 4th June 2008, 16:37   #41
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while we are at it. a quick question. i'm getting my new tata safari 2.2 dicor in a few days time. was wondering if shifting to synthetic oil was a good move or should i just stick to the regular oils. if synthetic, then were in mumbai can i get it done and how much would it cost.
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Old 4th June 2008, 16:41   #42
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Here's what Castrol has to say on the interval

Quote:
How often should I change the oil?
This depends on a car's service schedule. Your owner's manual will have "normal" and "severe" recommendations. Severe driving conditions include driving in stop-and-go traffic or excessive idling, making frequent short trips (less than 5 miles per trip), driving in extreme temperatures (over 90 F or below freezing), and towing and hauling. The average driver probably considers his or her driving conditions normal, but the truth is that most of us drive under severe conditions far more often than we realize and should time our oil changes accordingly
And AMSOIL on the colour of oil

Quote:
It is a common misconception that an oil's color is an indication of how dirty it is. This is absolutely NOT TRUE. The color of an oil does not have any bearing on its lubrication ability. Most oil and especially diesel engine oil will turn black in the first few hours of operation due to contaminates generated by the combustion process and soot particles. The ONLY way to accurately determine an oil's lubricating value or contamination level is through (spectrographic) oil analysis.
Will add to our knowledge
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Old 4th June 2008, 19:15   #43
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Hi kavesh,

> Oil filter change with every oil change.

This was taken for granted all along in my driving lufe.

But Honda India differs. For my City, the oil change is every 5000kms, but the oil filter change is every 10000kms. The time interval is 5000kms or 6 months.

In my Marina LS TDi, once the oil change was after 10000kms (mineral oil, routine interval is 7500kms). Before it went for the service, I checked the oil. It was black, but smooth when felt between the fingers. It was not thick or grainy at all. The distance was covered in eight and a half months. The oil was just 1 mm lower than the max mark.
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Old 4th June 2008, 20:48   #44
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Originally Posted by smally View Post
while we are at it. a quick question. i'm getting my new tata safari 2.2 dicor in a few days time. was wondering if shifting to synthetic oil was a good move or should i just stick to the regular oils. if synthetic, then were in mumbai can i get it done and how much would it cost.
Bear in mind, it has to be a CI-4 rated diesel rated synthetic and the only one available to my knowledge is the pricy Delvac-I from Mobil at Rs.950 per liter. Save your pocket and use either one of the two HDEO- Delo 400 or Delvac MX and your engine will thank you in the long run.
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Old 4th June 2008, 20:50   #45
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Hi kavesh,

> Oil filter change with every oil change.

This was taken for granted all along in my driving lufe.

But Honda India differs. For my City, the oil change is every 5000kms, but the oil filter change is every 10000kms. The time interval is 5000kms or 6 months.

In my Marina LS TDi, once the oil change was after 10000kms (mineral oil, routine interval is 7500kms). Before it went for the service, I checked the oil. It was black, but smooth when felt between the fingers. It was not thick or grainy at all. The distance was covered in eight and a half months. The oil was just 1 mm lower than the max mark.

On my 95 Accord V6, I have always changed oil and filter at 5000 miles with Mobil-I, 500,000+ miles and the engine is still going strong. Do yourself a favor, bypass Honda India's advice and change the cheap filter at 5000Km as well, after all a filter costs way less than a new Honda engine
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