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Old 8th July 2008, 21:08   #31
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Abhik,
there is another thread with an Alto having the same issues.
Its gotta do with the extra air flow does not have sufficient fuel..
IMHO I still have to confirm that am not a 100% sure about it.
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Old 8th July 2008, 21:19   #32
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Originally Posted by abhik View Post
Thanks mate but i am clear on TC and SC concepts though i wont surely mind the invite!!
But what i was refferring to was the use of a high-flow filter increasing or decreasing low-end or top-end as what i experienced after the fitment of the KnN was slight increase in low-end torque and a slight loss of top-end. What i expected was increase in performance through out the rev range but max performance is only around 3000-4000RPMs.
Hi Abhik,

You are really over-complicating this whole issue.

Just drop in a nice big filter.
It won't make any noticeable difference at low speed (unless you have a good imagination).
Will make a slight difference at high rpm, like 3000+, and a little more noticeable at 4000+ (assuming your exhaust is not limiting the flow).

In general, an ECU tune or re-map is just not so fine to be tuned for a cotton gauze filter vs. standard paper. But if you combine the low restriction filter with a low restriction exhaust, then there is a slight amount of ECU tuning that can be beneficial. And even in this case, most modern ECU will learn or adapt the tune anyway.
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Old 8th July 2008, 21:30   #33
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Originally Posted by RedMM340 View Post
And even in this case, most modern ECU will learn or adapt the tune anyway.
Which means you should not expect a performance increase *immediately* after changing your air filter. Probably an ECU reset is recommended in this situation and you may need to run the car for a tankful or two to give the ECU time to make the adjustment.
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Old 8th July 2008, 21:33   #34
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Originally Posted by RedMM340 View Post
Hi Abhik,

You are really over-complicating this whole issue.

Just drop in a nice big filter.
It won't make any noticeable difference at low speed (unless you have a good imagination).
Will make a slight difference at high rpm, like 3000+, and a little more noticeable at 4000+ (assuming your exhaust is not limiting the flow).

In general, an ECU tune or re-map is just not so fine to be tuned for a cotton gauze filter vs. standard paper. But if you combine the low restriction filter with a low restriction exhaust, then there is a slight amount of ECU tuning that can be beneficial. And even in this case, most modern ECU will learn or adapt the tune anyway.
I guessed the same thing and will be soon upgrading to a custom designed headers and a complete FFE and i guess that should work out.
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Old 8th July 2008, 21:35   #35
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Which means you should not expect a performance increase *immediately* after changing your air filter. Probably an ECU reset is recommended in this situation and you may need to run the car for a tankful or two to give the ECU time to make the adjustment.
The ECU will only take 10km odd to re-learn the new feeds and adjust to the new AFR and give an output.
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Old 8th July 2008, 21:43   #36
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Originally Posted by iceman91 View Post
Abhik,
there is another thread with an Alto having the same issues.
Its gotta do with the extra air flow does not have sufficient fuel..
IMHO I still have to confirm that am not a 100% sure about it.
Did follow that thread and i was guessing the same thing, more air-less fuel he either has'nt reset the ECU or he mentioned about checking the performance on an incline and decline so i am presuming he lives in a hilly area where air might be thinner and also the Alto with an 800cc engine isnt capable much on an incline.
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Old 8th July 2008, 22:12   #37
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Originally Posted by iceman91
Off-road conditions require added filter area. A filter should be sized 1-1/2 to 2 times larger than normal for any conditions that could be considered severe. .....
For long distance off-road events, two double-size remote mounted filters would be best.


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Originally Posted by khan_sultan View Post
Iceman, Why would that be? Is it because this setup will increase the 'low end torque' or what?

It would be because off road dusty conditions would clog the normal sized filter sooner. So the filter with a larger surface area would run more distance without needing a clean up job.

Useful in events like Baja...

Last edited by Sankar : 8th July 2008 at 22:14.
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Old 8th July 2008, 23:03   #38
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Originally Posted by abhik View Post
The ECU will only take 10km odd to re-learn the new feeds and adjust to the new AFR and give an output.
Not sure about this. I have read on the web that ECU can take 100+ miles (of fairly aggressive driving) to relearn everything after being reset. If you drive sedately for 10 kms in the city, what will the ECU learn?
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Old 8th July 2008, 23:34   #39
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When my stock K&N went in my swift i physically [with my hand at the input] felt an instant increase in the force of air going into my car - whilst my car was idling. An hour later when i drove it all i had to do was a 1st & 2nd gear pull to realize that low end torque had increased and the high rpms were smoother.

Also with regards to "ECU learning " as soon as you clean an air filter and put it back in , the cars instantly smoother and faster. So at least in the swift petrol the extra air is felt immediately , dont know about alto s though.

PS : Have to say i feel a definite difference in performance with high performance spark plugs in my car vs stock maruti plugs , although GTO insists it makes no difference at all , SO yes different folks different strokes type thing.
But i feel it immediately in both cases.
Wink
cheers people

Last edited by cyneverdie : 8th July 2008 at 23:36.
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Old 8th July 2008, 23:38   #40
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Not sure about this. I have read on the web that ECU can take 100+ miles (of fairly aggressive driving) to relearn everything after being reset. If you drive sedately for 10 kms in the city, what will the ECU learn?
An ECU does not have to re-learn everything from scratch, whatever the new values
are, it will calculate accordingly the values required through out the rev-range, apart from this the ECU
only has a set number of values within which it operates and so a set number of maps for different requirements
and if it cannot find a suitable combination of values to set within the values available then it will throw back
a malfuntion signal indicated by the coming on of the Check Engine light.
As mentioned in the Owner's manual of Ford, it says that after the ECU is reset after disconnecting the -ve terminal
of the battery and re-connecting it after 10mins, The ECU will take 8-10kms approx. to re-learn during which the car
might behave unusually, but this is normal.
What you are saying might be in context of a remap where one might have to drive the car for long to get the desired
map settings.
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