5th Gear Slip at speeds higher than 120 - Palio 1.6 Gtx

[vinit.merchant]

Hi All,
I have just made a purchase of a Palio 1.6 GTX. Link to the photos is
41786-bought-2002-palio-1-6-gtx-premium-2.html#post894012 .

1 problem i discovered was that once 120 is crossed, the gear slips from 5th to nuetral. This happened a couple of times. This could be because the 5th gear haven't been used much, since the car was mainly driven in Mumbai. But it can also be an issue with the Gear Box. Will get this checked on weekend.

I could have never tested this while taking test drive since engaging the fifth gear in Mumbai is itself a rare possibility, forget going beyond 120.
Had called up the owner to ask whether he faced similar problems but he said the same thing that engaging 5th was not possible in Mumbai and he used it only while on his way to Lonavala. He dint face such problems.
I will further test the gear.
Today while coming to office, I engaged to 5th and it did so smoothly and did not slip thereon. Now will have to test it further on Highways beyond 120kmh after a week or so to see if problem persists. The reason being If the 5th gear smoothens with use, need to check if the slip continues after the gear gets smooth.

Has any fellow Palio User encountered such an issue? What coulds be the possible reason? If it is a Gear Box issue which needs to be replaced, it means it is a costly affair. An insight on what amount of expenses would this need?

Advice needed.

[planet_rocker]

i havent faced this issue - i guess you need to get used to engaging the 5th gear properly - hope you are getting me - i havent hit 120 in 5th...ever but i have hit 120 in 3rd and boy it was fun

well i am facing this issue which is kind of irritating http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/893655-post33.html (RPM shoots up when clutch depressed)

[vinit.merchant]

Originally Posted by planet_rocker

i havent faced this issue - i guess you need to get used to engaging the 5th gear properly - hope you are getting me - i havent hit 120 in 5th...ever but i have hit 120 in 3rd and boy it was fun

My only concern is whether this problem can be due to faulty Gear Box.
My brother said that if it is,then be prepared for atleast 30-35K on getting it rectified.

Can there be a chance of fautly gearbox when there is a slip, in 5th gear only and only at speeds higher than 110-120? Does this make sense or could there be a chance where the gear was not engaged properly? I remember I engaged it properly the second time, still it slipped.

[planet_rocker]

hmmm - why dont you wait for some time and see if it happens again - slot it in 5th @ 40kph and accelerate - see if this occurs.

[vinit.merchant]

Originally Posted by planet_rocker

hmmm - why dont you wait for some time and see if it happens again - slot it in 5th @ 40kph and accelerate - see if this occurs.

It doesn't happen. As mentioned earlier, today when I engaged 5th at speed of 50, the shift was smooth and it did not slip. This confuses me more.

Two confusing points here
1. Why is there a slip only in 5th gear and not any other if gear box is at fault.
2. Why is the slip only at high speeds and not at speeds below 100?

[hellstar]

Originally Posted by vinit.merchant

Hi All,
I have just made a purchase of a Palio 1.6 GTX. Link to the photos is
41786-bought-2002-palio-1-6-gtx-premium-2.html#post894012 .

1 problem i discovered was that once 120 is crossed, the gear slips from 5th to nuetral. This happened a couple of times. This could be because the 5th gear haven't been used much, since the car was mainly driven in Mumbai. But it can also be an issue with the Gear Box. Will get this checked on weekend.


Advice needed.

Hi vinit , for issues such as this its good to collect info from the net and places like the Team BHP but when its come to doing the work do take the car to the A.S.S as nobody can do it better than them when it comes to OEM mechanical repairs or issues.

And If by any chance the car is under warranty its makea lot of differnec of you take the car to the A.S.S ASAP

[RedMM340]

This type of slipping should not happen with a low mileage car. It can be indicative of larger problems with the gearbox.

Is the transmission otherwise smooth and noise free? A gear whine means you have a problem.

Have you checked the gearbox fluid level?

If there is any chance that this vehicle was subject to flooding, drain the gearbox and refill with fresh gear oil. (I would do this anyway even with no flood issues).

Slipping out of a gear probably means insufficient gear teeth engagement, and could be a simple adjustment of the linkage. Get the linkage greased and checked out.

Good luck,

Gaurav

[vinit.merchant]

Originally Posted by RedMM340

This type of slipping should not happen with a low mileage car. It can be indicative of larger problems with the gearbox.

Is the transmission otherwise smooth and noise free? A gear whine means you have a problem.

Have you checked the gearbox fluid level?

If there is any chance that this vehicle was subject to flooding, drain the gearbox and refill with fresh gear oil. (I would do this anyway even with no flood issues).

Slipping out of a gear probably means insufficient gear teeth engagement, and could be a simple adjustment of the linkage. Get the linkage greased and checked out.

Good luck,

Gaurav

The gear shift is otherwise very smooth. No problems whatsoever.

Yes, the car was once in water till tyre level 3 years back.


Do you think this indicates a Gear Box replacement?

[RedMM340]

No, gearbox replacement is not required.

Like I said, drain and fill with fresh gear oil. Just cost Rs. 200 for the oil, so give that a try first.

If you still have the problem, then the first thing to check is the linkage. It may just require a little adjustment to fully engage 5th gear. I would disconnect the gear linkage cable, and spray some lube like WD40 and make sure that it is free and not binding. If that does not work, have a good Fiat service center take a look at the linkage and make any adjustments to make sure that is not the problem.

Then you look inside the gearbox. But this must be done by an expert, and again it might be something relatively simple.

Don't let someone sell you a complete gearbox. At least not at this stage. If that is the advice you get from where you take the car for repairs, chances are they are trying to rip you off, and it is time to find a new service provider.

[vinit.merchant]

Originally Posted by RedMM340

No, gearbox replacement is not required.

Like I said, drain and fill with fresh gear oil. Just cost Rs. 200 for the oil, so give that a try first.

If you still have the problem, then the first thing to check is the linkage. It may just require a little adjustment to fully engage 5th gear. I would disconnect the gear linkage cable, and spray some lube like WD40 and make sure that it is free and not binding. If that does not work, have a good Fiat service center take a look at the linkage and make any adjustments to make sure that is not the problem.

Then you look inside the gearbox. But this must be done by an expert, and again it might be something relatively simple.

Don't let someone sell you a complete gearbox. At least not at this stage. If that is the advice you get from where you take the car for repairs, chances are they are trying to rip you off, and it is time to find a new service provider.

I will not be taking the car to any place other than the Tata-Fiat A.S.S. Never.

I will note down the things mentioned by you and take the car to the A.S.S. this weekend and get the things checked.

But I have heared that touching the gearbox in Fiat is in itself a costly affair, labour charges coming to 5k. Did you do anything about the Linkage in your car?

[rks]

Originally Posted by vinit.merchant

But I have heared that touching the gearbox in Fiat is in itself a costly affair, labour charges coming to 5k.

As mentioned by Gaurav, try the simple stuff first, before opening the gearbox. Other possbilities that occurred to me:

1. Did you slot into 5th fully? Sometimes you may fail to do that and the gear will slip.

2. As per your post the problem only occurred at speeds beyond 120 kmph. Were the roads a bit rough/bumpy and did you feel a lot of vibrations in your car? If you had seen the gear lever, it might have been vibrating hard. Under those conditions, the gear can sometimes slip. It has happened to my Santro a couple of times, sometimes from 5th to neurtral, someitmes from 3rd to neutral. Also check that gearbox is mounted securely.

3. If there are vibrations in your car at high speeds despite the road being smooth, you may have to analyze the reasons for that and find a solution. Then your gear slippage problem may also go away. Tyres/wheels are the first suspects here, but there could be other reasons as well.

[RedMM340]

No I never had any problems with gear slipping with my GTX gearbox. No linkage adjustments were necessary either.

But I did do a gearbox oil change as a preventive measure. I actually changed the gear oil, ran the vehicle for 500 km, and then did another gearbox oil change with full synthetic Mobil 1 gear oil.

Just one other comment that may seem a bit silly, but might be worth a look. Are you sure that you are fully engaging 5th gear? Do you push the gear lever all the way up into 5th gear? Try this: sit in your car with the engine off, and cycle back an forth from 4th to 5th gear, pushing firmly up to fully engage 5th gear. Do this 50 times or so. It might free up a sticky or rusty gear cable.

[vinit.merchant]

Originally Posted by RedMM340

No I never had any problems with gear slipping with my GTX gearbox. No linkage adjustments were necessary either.

But I did do a gearbox oil change as a preventive measure. I actually changed the gear oil, ran the vehicle for 500 km, and then did another gearbox oil change with full synthetic Mobil 1 gear oil.

Just one other comment that may seem a bit silly, but might be worth a look. Are you sure that you are fully engaging 5th gear? Do you push the gear lever all the way up into 5th gear? Try this: sit in your car with the engine off, and cycle back an forth from 4th to 5th gear, pushing firmly up to fully engage 5th gear. Do this 50 times or so. It might free up a sticky or rusty gear cable.

This can be tried immediately. Shall do it during Dinner time .

@rks, Yes, I shall now check very closely whether the 5th gear is engaged properly or no.
No, the roads were not bumpy at all, was on Expressway, from Mumbai to Pune. There is no slip for any other gear except for the 5th.

[rks]

Originally Posted by RedMM340

Try this: sit in your car with the engine off, and cycle back an forth from 4th to 5th gear, pushing firmly up to fully engage 5th gear. Do this 50 times or so. It might free up a sticky or rusty gear cable.

Well, if engine is off I would not recommend such extended gear shifting because there will be no lubrication. It is OK to practise a couple of times, though, preferably with engine on.

[rks]

Originally Posted by vinit.merchant

@rks, Yes, I shall now check very closely whether the 5th gear is engaged properly or no.
No, the roads were not bumpy at all, was on Expressway, from Mumbai to Pune. There is no slip for any other gear except for the 5th.

Your problem only occurred at 120+ kmph, and you will naturally be in 5th at those speeds. Actually the Expressway has quite a few rough patches these days and you can see the gear lever vibrating hard at higher speeds. But so far I have not had this problem on the Expressway.

One bad habit that can cause damage to the gear selector mechanism (as per my Santro manual) is that of resting your left hand on the gear lever while steering with the right. I have seen many people do this, especially cabbies. I wonder if the previous ower of your car had this habit.