Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Technical Stuff


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 20th July 2008, 00:32   #1
Awaiting Email Confirmation
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: ERNAKULAM
Posts: 947
Thanked: 317 Times
Default After market air filters???!!!

Please read this before you mess with any part of your air filter assembly. Its a dispassionate review of after market air filters from some one who knows a thing or two about air filters.

Air Filters - Stock vs Aftermarket, and Airbox Resonance - Ducati.ms - The Ultimate Ducati Forum
drpullockaran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th July 2008, 00:50   #2
BHPian
 
abhik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 848
Thanked: 8 Times
Default

The link does not work for me!!!
abhik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th July 2008, 00:53   #3
Senior - BHPian
 
simply_sunny001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: London & Rohtak
Posts: 1,339
Thanked: 15 Times
Default

try again @ABHIK

i tried and its fine
simply_sunny001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th July 2008, 01:38   #4
BHPian
 
ankitahuja's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Gurgaon & Delhi
Posts: 887
Thanked: 46 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by abhik View Post
The link does not work for me!!!
Abhik bro it works fine.

Just read a few paragraphs, it's all for Ducati bikes, yes the same theory will be applicable for cars as well but who will validate all this?

It's someone's personal opinion on an open forum, air filters creating "resonance frequencies" might be very calculated for certain "efficiency" areas of performance, but all those who have air filters in their cars have good to say about them, at the end of it, increase in air and more fuel supply leads to better combustion and better gains eventually.

Just my 2 cents.
ankitahuja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th July 2008, 13:00   #5
Distinguished - BHPian
 
condor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Speed-brkr City
Posts: 10,738
Thanked: 4,316 Times
Default

hey Doc, quite a few threads on these filters. The debate has been going on for quite some time.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...e-effects.html (K&N Air Filter, the side effects.)
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/modifi...n-filters.html (The truth about K & N Filters)
condor is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 20th July 2008, 13:10   #6
Team-BHP Support
 
Rehaan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 22,367
Thanked: 22,585 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by simply_sunny001 View Post
try again @ABHIK

i tried and its fine
Actually the link doesnt work for me either!

I guess thats what you get when you register your domain on a tiny little island!!

cya
R
Rehaan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th July 2008, 13:43   #7
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: KL
Posts: 4,680
Thanked: 3,508 Times
Default

The link worked for me. Here's another link to the same article.

Air Filters - Ducati Up North
Sankar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st July 2008, 00:06   #8
BHPian
 
abhik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 848
Thanked: 8 Times
Default

Well the link finally worked and i really wish it did'nt because when i got my K n N i came across a hollow box located after the air-filter box which actually did not make any sense except for the fact that it was sucking air going to the throtle body and was a hindrance as per me only to realise later that this was a resonator to modulate induction noise and other functions the theory discribes on the link.
But just my 2 cents here is that a resonator is a device which modulates noise and has no other function apart from that. If i put a high-flow filter and directed air-flow to the TB without the resonator, i think i have done more good to the engine than worse. My car is NA and not a TCed one to make a lot of induction noise and for me the resonator was a hinderance which i removed to get a direct flow of air to the TB and also enjoy the hissing induction noise.
abhik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st July 2008, 00:27   #9
BHPian
 
abhik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 848
Thanked: 8 Times
Default

Besides the guy on the link talks about fins directing and accelerating air flow and also usage of a high-flow filter on "BIKES." His discussions are revolving generally around bike where we have to understand that a bikes engine operation is in the mid-range(3000-5000RPMs) even riding sedately at 60-80kmph.(These are smaller capacity bikes i am refferring to!) and the liter class and Supersport bikes also operate around the same rev range for slightly higher speeds.
At 3000-5000RPMs the TB is sucking in a lot of air and due to a bikes structure and design air flow is direct and inlet is easily designable for the same.(Air-inlet usually mounted on the fairing like a Yamaha R1, Ducati 1098, Triumph Daytona.)Thus a high-flow filter is more exposed to dust etc.
In cars(that most of us drive, not talking about supercars here!) the air inlet is hidden away and the filter(if high-flow)is located inside the bonnet fairly protected from direct dust inflow.

The discussion on the link IMHO is about high-flow air-filter apllication in a very different senario and conditions which are not directly related to application on cars.

Last edited by Rehaan : 28th July 2008 at 04:39. Reason: Merged. Please use the EDIT button to add to an existing post within 20 minutes instead of postnig another consecutive post.
abhik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st July 2008, 00:38   #10
Team-BHP Support
 
theMAG's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 7,033
Thanked: 1,470 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rehaan View Post
.. on a tiny little island!!

Before or after the volcanic eruption?
theMAG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st July 2008, 01:14   #11
BHPian
 
RedMM340's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: on the move
Posts: 459
Thanked: 23 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by drpullockaran View Post
Please read this before you mess with any part of your air filter assembly. Its a dispassionate review of after market air filters from some one who knows a thing or two about air filters.

Air Filters - Stock vs Aftermarket, and Airbox Resonance - Ducati.ms - The Ultimate Ducati Forum

This article that you are referencing has very little to do with typical passenger cars that may benefit from a modified air filter. Please do not confuse advise meant for Ducati performance bikes with all internal combustion vehicles.

Ducati is a race bike that revs to 9k + rpm and is tuned to race specs. You can be assured that its intake and exhaust are tuned for max power. What does this have to do with typical econo cars that are sold in the Indian Market? Very little.

Typical passenger cars are tuned for lean burning and minimium noise. Again this is NOT what Ducks are tuned for.

It is a totally unrealistic stretch to apply the same rules for a Ducati race bike for a Palio/Zen/Santro/etc.

Sorry if I sound a bit harsh, but the fact is that putting in an aftermarket air filter and throwing out the stock air box will help with throttle response and power.

I have even had motorcycles that I have modified to enhance air flow by using addtional inlets and K&N filters. Even these bikes do not operate in the high performance region as Ducatis.

Regards,
RedMM340 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st July 2008, 14:52   #12
BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 393
Thanked: 9 Times
Default

drpullockaran,

Thanks for providing wonderful link.Here my 2 cents.

It essentially describes the mechanism of air intake systems.Air intake system is designed with each vehicle taking into consideration many aspects like noise suppression,better optimised flow at major rpm range and so on.So basically its a calculated technical effort aiding to the better performance of vehicle.So in racing bikes if one uses another filter mechanism then it can dampen engine performance ar higher rpm.Thats their concern.

Link says we have resonator in air intake system.So we have in our cars.Whats basically it is? and how it really help our car.This air resonator basically works as a Helmholtz Resonator.

Helmholtz Resonator - DiracDelta Science & Engineering Encyclopedia

Helmholtz resonator can be designed to reduce noise as well as improve torque.In most street cars we get benefits of both.It can be designed specifically to improve mid range drivability just like free flow exhaust.

This box also eliminates road dust and debris.

The design of resonator box is made in such a way to attenuate perticuler resonance frequency range during suction stroke at perticuler rpm range.It aids suppressing induction noise as well as smoothen out induction waves.So basically we get lesser induction noise at very high rpm.

Acoustic Filter Elements - DiracDelta Science & Engineering Encyclopedia

Now our street car are optimized for street performance hence air resonator is designed accordingly.If we use free flow replacement filter of same shape & size as of OEM filter without even removing resonator box then we are increasing flow of air within such system.So we get optimized benefit of increased flow throuout rpm range for which this air intake system is designed.

If we remove resonator box and add another intake system like K & N cold air intake then intake charecteristic changes which is now more tuned towards higher rpm.We get induction noise(which many people likes) and better tuned inflow at certain rpm range and not necesaarily at entire rpm range.

In the same manner exhaust system is designed to reduce very loud exhaust sound waves through network of expansion chamber & muffler(silencer).

Abhik,

I really appriciate your eagerness to understand technicality behind every mod and discussion in a healthy manner.

Last edited by finetuning : 21st July 2008 at 14:55.
finetuning is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
After-market Air Suspension. Possible? Archish Modifications & Accessories 13 27th June 2013 06:55
K&N filters V/S Proton filters mail4ajo Modifications & Accessories 1 25th April 2006 00:34
(K&N) Cotton Gauze Air filters help/freeflow == more dirt ? zenx Modifications & Accessories 21 9th February 2006 11:34


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 23:12.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks