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Old 2nd December 2009, 13:11   #1531
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suman View Post
Could be from the Front Anti Roll bar bushes
+1. Get the greasing done properly of all the visible joints under the body. Minor thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gowda79 View Post
Get your steering wheel aligned properly...
Kick those TASS guys ...
+1. Also check the tyre pressure is identical in both tyres. Mine goes like a rocket.
-BJ
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Old 2nd December 2009, 13:24   #1532
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suman View Post
Could be from the Front Anti Roll bar bushes
Yes it is. Mine had a similar problem with barely 1000kms on the odo. Finally around 14000kms the bushes were replaced.
Tata Ke ghar me der hai, andher nahin
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Old 4th December 2009, 18:38   #1533
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Just an update, the Safari 2.2 no longer have a vaccum cylinder (black cylinder behind the front right wheel), dont know if they have a better booster or vaccum ball in the engine bay.

Just noticed this on the fresh batch of Safari's parked in the showroom.
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Old 4th December 2009, 19:03   #1534
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Now this is a revelation! Where did it go, or did they figure out how easy it is to hit the booster in ruts etc.,and moved it to a more sane location!
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Old 4th December 2009, 19:45   #1535
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Niggles seem to be back again. Truck seems hesitant to move in 1st gear from stationary often (not always). [Especially never when I take it to TASS]

Vehicle moves with a lot of jerks then stabilises once its picked up some speed 5kmph or so. Any leads please guys??. Last time TASS told me something about Turbo hose being mis-aligned and corrected the same.
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Old 4th December 2009, 20:03   #1536
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dadu View Post
Just an update, the Safari 2.2 no longer have a vaccum cylinder (black cylinder behind the front right wheel), dont know if they have a better booster or vaccum ball in the engine bay.

Just noticed this on the fresh batch of Safari's parked in the showroom.
I thought it was already known thing.
There is a small ball like vaccum holder in the engine bay on my safari.


Quote:
Originally Posted by maheshmenon View Post
Niggles seem to be back again. Truck seems hesitant to move in 1st gear from stationary often (not always). [Especially never when I take it to TASS]

Vehicle moves with a lot of jerks then stabilises once its picked up some speed 5kmph or so. Any leads please guys??. Last time TASS told me something about Turbo hose being mis-aligned and corrected the same.
How would misaligned turbo hoses cause this ? It seems more like a blocked fuel filter to me

Last edited by Rahulk76 : 4th December 2009 at 20:05.
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Old 4th December 2009, 20:41   #1537
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Originally Posted by Rahulk76 View Post
How would misaligned turbo hoses cause this ? It seems more like a blocked fuel filter to me
won't the fuel Filter bypass trigger a "SVC" light???

also the problem should persist through out the range than the initial movt only. Beats me
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Old 4th December 2009, 21:21   #1538
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dadu View Post
Just an update, the Safari 2.2 no longer have a vaccum cylinder (black cylinder behind the front right wheel), dont know if they have a better booster or vaccum ball in the engine bay.

Just noticed this on the fresh batch of Safari's parked in the showroom.
Are we sure that the big black cylinder is for vaccuum (brake??). The vaccuum brake booster is just in front of the driver beyond the firewall. If this was for the vaccuum, then my sierra should have had it also.

What I understood is that it was 1st introduced in the 3L (not in the 1st batches but subsequently) to reduce the smoke etc from the exhaust system. 3L had a problem of belching of black smoke in the initial lots and hence this mod.
Gurus can correct me if I am wrong.

@Maheshmenon: what is a misaligned (turbo) hose

Last edited by kingshukt : 4th December 2009 at 21:25.
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Old 5th December 2009, 00:01   #1539
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maheshmenon View Post
won't the fuel Filter bypass trigger a "SVC" light??? also the problem should persist through out the range than the initial movt only. Beats me
I tend to agree with rahulk76. A blocked fuel filter is more like it - especially since the vehicles picks up rhythm after 5 kmph or so by when the fuel 'surge' would have fed fuel to the engine. Anyway, this is just a speculation. Gurus can comment further.

rahulk76 - you did have a similar issue I believe which was rectified by replacing/upgrading the EGR valve, right?
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Old 5th December 2009, 09:07   #1540
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rahulk76 View Post
I thought it was already known thing.
There is a small ball like vaccum holder in the engine bay on my safari.
The vaccum accumulator is present in all safari's(the ball), it seems that they have removed the vaccum tank and done some modification to the accumulator to compensate.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rahulk76 View Post
How would misaligned turbo hoses cause this ? It seems more like a blocked fuel filter to me
The air would leak and pressure would drop but then the vehicle would move to limp mode and will maintain the same speed irrespective of the gears.

Quote:
Originally Posted by maheshmenon View Post
won't the fuel Filter bypass trigger a "SVC" light???

also the problem should persist through out the range than the initial movt only. Beats me
See above, its either the fuel or air filter, do you get some kind of smoke also with this behaviour, could be vaccum pipes if you do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingshukt View Post
Are we sure that the big black cylinder is for vaccuum (brake??). The vaccuum brake booster is just in front of the driver beyond the firewall. If this was for the vaccuum, then my sierra should have had it also.

What I understood is that it was 1st introduced in the 3L (not in the 1st batches but subsequently) to reduce the smoke etc from the exhaust system. 3L had a problem of belching of black smoke in the initial lots and hence this mod.
Gurus can correct me if I am wrong.

@Maheshmenon: what is a misaligned (turbo) hose
There were instances of the hose sliiping out of place reported here, so thats what mahesh is talking about.

This is how the vaccum schematic looks for Safari.

Name:  Vaccum.jpg
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But this will change with the vaccum tank disappearing now.
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Old 5th December 2009, 09:53   #1541
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dadu View Post
The vaccum accumulator is present in all safari's(the ball), it seems that they have removed the vaccum tank and done some modification to the accumulator to compensate.
.
.
This is how the vaccum schematic looks for Safari.
.
.
But this will change with the vaccum tank disappearing now.
The schematic seems to be logical but (as usual) I have some doubts / queries...
1. Where did you get the schematic diagram from ?
2. The Vaccuum tank is too flimsy. Vaccuum tanks have to be rigidly built (something like a CNG tank)
3. Safari has only a vaccuum asssisted (or power brakes) brakes. In layman's terms, the pressure on the braking system in insufficient considering only the hydraulic system (brake fluid). Therefore Vaccum boost (atmospheric air pressure) is given behind the brakefluid to exponentially increase the pressure on the brake shoe / brake caliper to assist in bringing a high power / heavy vehicle to a stop.
Without the vaccuum assist the braking system would be hard pressed to stop the safari.
(The vaccuum is produced by a vaccuum pump attached to the alternator)

Some links for furthur inputs on vaccuum Assist:
1. Linky-vaccuum assist
2. HowStuffWorks "How Power Brakes Work"

This is a link for vaccuum brake: vaccum Brakes

This is the Link for Air brakes a-la the commercial segment : HowStuffWorks "How Air Brakes Work"

The experts on this forum are also requested to please correct me/ rubbish my information .

Last edited by kingshukt : 5th December 2009 at 10:03.
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Old 5th December 2009, 10:08   #1542
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingshukt View Post
The schematic seems to be logical but (as usual) I have some doubts / queries...
1. Where did you get the schematic diagram from ?
2. The Vaccuum tank is too flimsy. Vaccuum tanks have to rigidly built (something like a CNG tank)
3. Safari has only a vaccuum asssisted (or power brakes) brakes. In layman's terms, the pressure on the braking system in insufficient considering only the hydraulic system (brake fluid). Therefore Vaccum boost (atmospheric air peressure) is given behind the brakefluid to exponentially increase the pressure on the brake shoe / brake caliper to assist in bringing a high power / heavy vehicle to a stop.
Without the vaccuum assist the braking system would be hard pressed to stop the safari.

This site should also provide some input: Linky-vaccuum assist.

This is a link for vaccuum brake: vaccum Brakes

This is the Link for Air brakes a-la the commercial segment : HowStuffWorks "How Air Brakes Work"

The experts on this forum are also requested to please correct me/ rubbish my information .
1. This is the official TATA Safari 2.2l vaccum schematic, authentic.
2. Agreed it looks flimsy but is sealed enough for vaccum boost.
3. Agreed

As per the official statement "the vaccum tank in safari helps in avoiding vaccum starvation by brake booster during repeated braking under city driving conditions" (simplified english by me for the understanding), therefore with the upgraded ones now they must have added volumes to the accumulator, negating the requirement of the tank during city driving.

No information is rubbish, just helps differentiating between correct information and the incorrect ones.
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Old 5th December 2009, 10:22   #1543
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dadu View Post
As per the official statement "the vaccum tank in safari helps in avoiding vaccum starvation by brake booster during repeated braking under city driving conditions" (simplified english by me for the understanding), therefore with the upgraded ones now they must have added volumes to the accumulator, negating the requirement of the tank during city driving.
With the vaccuum pump running continuously, starvation of brake booster is a very remote possibility. Also as given in the links that I had posted in my previous post, there is no mention of Vaccuum tank (BTW how do you store vaccum ? )

However I am trying to reconfirm from TM (innocently) as to what the black cylindrical container is ?

Will inform again when my source reverts back.

Meanwhile Rahulk76 is visiting TASS on 10.12.09 for the car checkup prior to his north trip. He will also ask TASS about the same.
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Old 5th December 2009, 10:38   #1544
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingshukt View Post
With the vaccuum pump running continuously, starvation of brake booster is a very remote possibility. Also as given in the links that I had posted in my previous post, there is no mention of Vaccuum tank (BTW how do you store vaccum ? )

However I am trying to reconfirm from TM (innocently) as to what the black cylindrical container is ?

Will inform again when my source reverts back.

Meanwhile Rahulk76 is visiting TASS on 10.12.09 for the car checkup prior to his north trip. He will also ask TASS about the same.
You keep a vaccum pressure readily available for use with this tank as and when required during braking. No need to verify from TASS, this is from their technical documentation itself and rahul is aware of it.
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Old 5th December 2009, 10:59   #1545
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dadu View Post
You keep a vaccum pressure readily available ..... when required during braking.
and that IMHO is the job of the vaccuum accumulator.

Last edited by kingshukt : 5th December 2009 at 11:00.
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