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Old 21st March 2010, 00:21   #1906
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After all these years in production, one would have hoped that niggles would have been a thing of the past for the Safari. I do agree that most of them are drivetrain related issues, ones that have changed significantly over the years, but it is still not an excuse.

I think the Safari assembly line has really bad QC, also, it has to be an old assembly line that cannot compete with the Manza etc. for fit and finish. I hope that within the next year, Tata somes up with the new Safari; one that will blow the competition away (namely the Mahindra's).
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Old 21st March 2010, 09:26   #1907
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Originally Posted by arijit.co.in View Post
Are rear mud flaps really necessary, as the rear bumper is not of any metal
It helps you to be a good citizen and be kind to two-wheelers following you. Get them painted if you want them in body color.

-BJ
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Old 21st March 2010, 09:41   #1908
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Originally Posted by Amartya View Post
After all these years in production, one would have hoped that niggles would have been a thing of the past for the Safari. I do agree that most of them are drivetrain related issues, ones that have changed significantly over the years, but it is still not an excuse...
From where did this come? Most of the issues, on new vehicles, are related to cosmetics or due to lack of QC at the factory, in terms of consumables. The less said about the dealer QC the better. Not sure, but I have not seen a case here where the drive train was faulty!

But, once the vehicle visits TASS for a repair, the quality of work is pathetic to say the least, unless you are lucky to find good team at the TASS. The usual happening is that they fix one thing but leave something else to get goofed up!!!

Even though TATA replaces faulty unit under warranty (and also in extended warranty), people do not appreciate the vehicle spending unwanted time in the workshop.

So TATA, even with a good product, with a non-existent QC process, at their plant and at the dealer level, are shooting their own foot!

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... I hope that within the next year, Tata somes up with the new Safari; one that will blow the competition away (namely the Mahindra's).
Looking at how much the product is maturing, one has to give it to the Mahindra's. So, not sure if the above might happen, but if they (TATA) do not get their act together, they will get blown away for sure!
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Old 21st March 2010, 11:53   #1909
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@bj96: thanks brother.
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Old 21st March 2010, 14:18   #1910
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This is the Alpine head unit provided in my DICOR GX. I have also been provided with a white I-POD cable.

Whats it's model number ?

Can anyone tell me, if i can get some USB converter cable and can attach a USB with this cable or better still, which type of port has been provided with the I-pod cable (aux-in) ?

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Old 21st March 2010, 23:31   #1911
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Originally Posted by arijit.co.in View Post
This is the Alpine head unit provided in my DICOR GX. I have also been provided with a white I-POD cable.

Whats it's model number ?

Can anyone tell me, if i can get some USB converter cable and can attach a USB with this cable or better still, which type of port has been provided with the I-pod cable (aux-in) ?
Hi Arijit

The head unit that comes in the 2.2 EX/GX is the Alpine CDE-9870E. It's a very basic head unit and as far as I know, does not support USB or AUX-IN. The i-Pod cable that has been provided plugs into the back of the unit into a proprietary connector and can only be used for connecting iPods.

Regards
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Old 22nd March 2010, 01:40   #1912
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyWheels View Post
From where did this come? Most of the issues, on new vehicles, are related to cosmetics or due to lack of QC at the factory, in terms of consumables. The less said about the dealer QC the better. Not sure, but I have not seen a case here where the drive train was faulty!
I made a mistake, you are right for the most part. However, the correct statement should have been, "many of them are non-cosmetic issues". Let me clarify that by saying, I interpret cosmetics as the plastic parts, and purely non-mechanical parts (however, the radiator is definitely non-cosmetic, just an example).

If we read the thread about the 2.2L technical problems thread, many of them are drivetrain related problems:

a. The crankshaft pulley assembly change.
b. The infamous Krrrr sound (not sure, I used to thing that this is a knocking sound, but teambhpians say otherwise).
c. Premature timing belt snap.

Many of them must have been solved by now, but these have no place in a car that has been around for the better part of a decade.

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Originally Posted by HappyWheels View Post
Looking at how much the product is maturing, one has to give it to the Mahindra's. So, not sure if the above might happen, but if they (TATA) do not get their act together, they will get blown away for sure!
Agreed, I am hoping that the Aria will be a groundbreaking product, however, I also believe that other than their UV's, the Tata's have made great strides in improved product quality (with the Vista and it's derivatives).
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Old 22nd March 2010, 08:59   #1913
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amartya View Post

If we read the thread about the 2.2L technical problems thread, many of them are drivetrain related problems:

a. The crankshaft pulley assembly change.
b. The infamous Krrrr sound (not sure, I used to thing that this is a knocking sound, but teambhpians say otherwise).
c. Premature timing belt snap.
a) wasnt there a retro?
b) newer 2.2 doesnt have this; they get bigger EGR
c) ?

Dont think there were any drive train issues like we have heard about Skoda
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Old 22nd March 2010, 09:21   #1914
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ovi View Post
The head unit that comes in the 2.2 EX/GX is the Alpine CDE-9870E
and VX comes with Alpine DVD HU ( DVA-9861E)

Quote:
Originally Posted by arijit.co.in View Post
Whats it's model number ?
And the extra iPod cable provided is this one (Alpine KCE-422i)

Amazon.com: Alpine KCE-422i iPod Connection Cable: Electronics

-BJ
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Old 22nd March 2010, 09:47   #1915
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Amartya sorry to say but too much of hearsay.

I hope you know that "drivetrain" is a word invented by auto magazines for gearbox , drive shafts and differential combined together. None of the issues you mentioned below are due to "drivetrain" . Similarly engine related components are termed as "powerplant', Personally I hate this terminology and don't understand why journos can't use non confusing correct engineering terms which layman also understands as automobiles are around for more then 100 years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amartya View Post
I made a mistake, you are right for the most part. However, the correct statement should have been, "many of them are non-cosmetic issues". Let me clarify that by saying, I interpret cosmetics as the plastic parts, and purely non-mechanical parts (however, the radiator is definitely non-cosmetic, just an example).
The radiator issue on this thread occurred during a service due to poor workman ship at the workshop but not actually a issue due to radiator. Also it is not present in any other vehicle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amartya View Post
If we read the thread about the 2.2L technical problems thread, many of them are drivetrain related problems:
As explained above drivetrain is something very different.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Amartya View Post
a. The crankshaft pulley assembly change.
Well not crankshaft pulley , The retro changed timing belt pulley . Actually they have changed the whole timing kit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amartya View Post
b. The infamous Krrrr sound (not sure, I used to thing that this is a knocking sound, but teambhpians say otherwise).
Have you ever heard this sound first hand ? The sound was like some one doing gargles and was due to smaller EGR valve. In clutter of older engine this was inaudible but in 2.2 rest of engine is relatively quite so it was audible and this sound went away in mid 2008 with 90 mm EGR valve instead of 70mm. This sound was not causing any issue per see , If mercedese benz can live with a little clutter of diesel engine whats so wrong in a humble safari. Before some one jumps up he/she should listen to a Kompresser engine sound.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amartya View Post
c. Premature timing belt snap.
Never ever heard of a timing belt snap IMHO on T-BHP or elsewhere on 2.2 Safari. Can you please site a post ?

Last edited by amitk26 : 22nd March 2010 at 09:49.
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Old 22nd March 2010, 10:25   #1916
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Well, older safari's had this issue(early 2.2) of timing belt snap. One 2.2 in the family had this problem. Thats why when you see the retro, you see some timing kit upgrade.
This was the only major "problem" item which was fixed in the retro. Apart from that some other significant changes were
1. ECU software to eliminate false check engine light issues(I had to get injectors and what not changed due to false engine check light)
2. Power window mechanism update - Ironically, after the update power windows do not work like before.
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Old 22nd March 2010, 10:44   #1917
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
Amartya sorry to say but too much of hearsay.

I hope you know that "drivetrain" is a word invented by auto magazines for gearbox , drive shafts and differential combined together. None of the issues you mentioned below are due to "drivetrain" . Similarly engine related components are termed as "powerplant', Personally I hate this terminology and don't understand why journos can't use non confusing correct engineering terms which layman also understands as automobiles are around for more then 100 years.
My understanding of the term, kind of inline with what you said, basically put the pulley's as a part of the drivetrain. I agree that it doesn't make sense to use such terminology. I too would refrain in the future.

Although my post did sound like hearsay, even I would have thought the same, I gleaned most of it from the Safari 2.2 technical page. The one about the timing belt is on page2. It wasn't a tbhpian's car, but the source was a tbhpian. Check it out, it's right after your post on that page.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...-thread-2.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
The radiator issue on this thread occurred during a service due to poor workman ship at the workshop but not actually a issue due to radiator. Also it is not present in any other vehicle.
Couldn't agree more, also I knew it, I just gave that example to clarify that "had" there been a problem with the radiater, although it's not a strictly mechanical part (as in, without moving parts), it was non-cosmetic. Bad example from me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
Well not crankshaft pulley , The retro changed timing belt pulley . Actually they have changed the whole timing kit.
Fine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
Have you ever heard this sound first hand ? The sound was like some one doing gargles and was due to smaller EGR valve. In clutter of older engine this was inaudible but in 2.2 rest of engine is relatively quite so it was audible and this sound went away in mid 2008 with 90 mm EGR valve instead of 70mm. This sound was not causing any issue per see , If mercedese benz can live with a little clutter of diesel engine whats so wrong in a humble safari. Before some one jumps up he/she should listen to a Kompresser engine sound.
Agreed and accepted. I also think that the VW/Skoda (atleast the PD ones) diesels sound worse than the first generation Indica.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
Never ever heard of a timing belt snap IMHO on T-BHP or elsewhere on 2.2 Safari. Can you please site a post ?
Have cited it above.

Now, here is the part I was waiting to get to to type. I love the Safari, from the day it came out. I still do. I also regard the 2.2VTT to be a very good engine (I haven't driven a Safari for extended durations, but at least 200 kms).
It just pains me to see that things that are not really wrong with the car (at the design stage), end up causing people trouble because of manufacturing inconsistencies. Another grouse is that Tata has been able to make such significant strides in manufacturing and QC (while still retaining the fantastic VFM proposition) with the Manza and the Vista, but the Safari still soldiers on with hardly any manufacturing and QC optimizations.

Apologies for taking the thread off-track with one not so well thought post.
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Old 22nd March 2010, 11:06   #1918
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amartya View Post
...Although my post did sound like hearsay, even I would have thought the same, I gleaned most of it from the Safari 2.2 technical page. The one about the timing belt is on page2. It wasn't a tbhpian's car, but the source was a tbhpian. Check it out, it's right after your post on that page.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...-thread-2.html
...
Looks like a one off case. And with lot many other 2.2's running without a belt snap, this one also looks like an issue due to what Dadu has mentioned.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amartya View Post
... It just pains me to see that things that are not really wrong with the car (at the design stage), end up causing people trouble because of manufacturing inconsistencies. Another grouse is that Tata has been able to make such significant strides in manufacturing and QC (while still retaining the fantastic VFM proposition) with the Manza and the Vista, but the Safari still soldiers on with hardly any manufacturing and QC optimizations...
Right on!

Last edited by Dippy : 22nd March 2010 at 11:16. Reason: Editing last line Related posts moved to the Safari issues thread :)
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Old 22nd March 2010, 11:16   #1919
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I had a problem with the radiator which was not result of a TASS mistake. It was a manufacturing defect in the radiator which lead to us getting stranded in the middle of nowhere. There is a travelogue dedicated to that trip
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Old 22nd March 2010, 14:09   #1920
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and VX comes with Alpine DVD HU ( DVA-9861E)



And the extra iPod cable provided is this one (Alpine KCE-422i)

Amazon.com: Alpine KCE-422i iPod Connection Cable: Electronics

-BJ
I got a shining DVA-9861E and its remote without any LCD screens on my Ex 4X4 - I am yet to try connecting a video display to it, but have the i-pod interface hooked up. May be this was part of the 'Now-or-Never' offer ;-)
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