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Old 9th May 2010, 00:17   #2086
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Originally Posted by sen2009 View Post
Understood.
So, I've to change Oil and oil filter every 7.5 k Kilometers. That means new oil every time a new filter goes in...
Mmm.... let me rephrase that, it is new filter every time new oil goes in!

And as per TATA manual, the oil+filter change is required only every 15k kms interval, but experienced nomads say 7.5k intervals to be best.

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Originally Posted by sen2009 View Post
...And, I have to change my Fuel filter every 30K kilometers. however, fuel has to be changes many times in between.
If only a tankful was able to cover that distance! Sigh!
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Old 9th May 2010, 06:35   #2087
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Originally Posted by sen2009 View Post
Please help -

What is the difference between oil filter and fuel filter?
I got the "fuel filter" changed in the last service, a delphi unit for about Rs. 2500-3000.
Every Safari owner takes up voluntary oil change at 7.5K interval and also changes the oil filter with oil. So, do they pay rs. 1800 for oil + Rs. 2500 for filter? Or is that some different filter. Please help!
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Originally Posted by dadu View Post
Battery is suspect, otherwise starter needs to be serviced.



Fuel filter - Filters the Diesel - Needs to be changed only at 30k kms intervals.

Oil Filter - Filters the Engine oil, needs to be changed with every oil change.

Both are different, the fuel filter is expensive whereas Oil filter is not.
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Originally Posted by HappyWheels View Post
Mmm.... let me rephrase that, it is new filter every time new oil goes in!

And as per TATA manual, the oil+filter change is required only every 15k kms interval, but experienced nomads say 7.5k intervals to be best.



If only a tankful was able to cover that distance! Sigh!
Fuel filter to be changed at 30k kms or earlier if the need arises.
Oil can be voluntarily changed at 7.5k kms. There is no need to replace the oil filter per se. If it is designed to last 15k kms as per the Safari manual, it sure can filter new oil at 7.5k kms.

You can save about a 1000 bucks by doing the oil change outside by using the same grade & brand of oil specified in the Safari manual(API CH4+), not to mention the time saved in taking your Safari to the TASS just for an oil change. You do not void the warranty since as per TML records you will do the 15 k service as scheduled.

This was suggested to me by the service advisor, since i complained about the amount of time i waste driving to the TASS just for an oil change.
Less time spent at the TASS = peace of mind.
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Old 9th May 2010, 17:44   #2088
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OK.. there is something.
I kind of checked my previous service bills (or whatever remains of them are lying around). My service bills are way higher than what I generally read here. Why?

"Assembly Fuel Filter Delphi" - Rs. 1835.56 + "Air Filter Element" Rs. 644.44 + "Assembly Oil Filter" Rs. 161.78 = "Total" Rs. 2641.78

" Engine Oil Castrol GTX" Rs. 1833.3 + "Bardhal Special Duty" Rs. 445.33 + "System D Extra" Rs.532.44 = "Total" Rs. 2811.07

Hence, every service is minimum Rs. 5452.85/- Plus this or that!

Now I opened and checked the service book. And yes!
"Fuel Filter" and "Oil Filter" has to be changed EVERY service and not 30,000 KM as said here. The service schedule clearly put cross under all service Kilometers except for PDI and states "Every Service" under Frequency x1000 column.
In case of air filter it says to change if red band appears. I have never checked it myself so don't know if it indeed gets spoilt in the 7/7.5K kilometers. The Road it travels through is extremely dusty though!

I am still to figure out the Bardhal and System D though! Couldn't find where they are mentioned.
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Old 9th May 2010, 18:36   #2089
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Originally Posted by sen2009 View Post
Now I opened and checked the service book. And yes!
"Fuel Filter" and "Oil Filter" has to be changed EVERY service and not 30,000 KM as said here.
+1

Attached below is the excerpt from page number 145 which mentions the periodicity for 2.2 engine. It says 15k or 2 years for fuel filter. I guess 15k looks mistyped as the 2yr duration should be equivalent to 30k kms (15k/year is assumption in manual).

The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread-safaridicor2.2service.png

However, can some senior safari 2.2 owner clarify what's the correct value (time and kms)? Also, it would be great to have a reference-able source in case we have to convince TASS not change fuel filter at 15k kms.

tia,
-BJ

Last edited by bj96 : 9th May 2010 at 18:38. Reason: minor change
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Old 9th May 2010, 21:51   #2090
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Strange! Did not notice this and did not expect it also.

Just completed 15k kms service and fuel filter was not changed. Will be at 30k kms service.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sen2009 View Post
...I am still to figure out the Bardhal and System D though! Couldn't find where they are mentioned.
Bardhal is a way that the service center makes more money out of you. You do not have to do it, certainly not for a new vehicle with such low mileage on the odometer!

Next time tell them absolutely no flushing using Bardhal!

System D is good additive to add to the fuel once, I reckon, every 10k kms.

And this also, is not a necessity!
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Old 9th May 2010, 22:14   #2091
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The interval for changing fuel filter is 30k kms. Its not during every service.
Oil filter has to be changed every service = 30k kms. But if you do a voluntary 7.5k kms oil change, you dont have to change oil filter.
Air filter is 45k kms or earlier if red band appears.

@ sen > the system D & Bardahl are a rip off. Congrats, you got conned!!

Ask yourself and the service advisor > if you are supposed to change fuel filter every 15k kms, then why do you need System D, especially since TMl recommends using normal diesel. Then also think, if you are doing a voluntary oil change @7.5k kms, then why do you need Bardahl engine treatment, especially since your Safari is NEW.
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Old 9th May 2010, 22:27   #2092
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Originally Posted by jaysmokesleaves View Post
...Ask yourself and the service advisor > if you are supposed to change fuel filter every 15k kms, then why do you need System D, especially since TMl recommends using normal diesel. Then also think, if you are doing a voluntary oil change @7.5k kms, then why do you need Bardahl engine treatment, especially since your Safari is NEW.
Good questions JSL; result - there goes one good cow for the TASS that Sen2009 visits! They surely have milked him well!!!
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Old 10th May 2010, 10:36   #2093
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bj96 View Post
+1

Attached below is the excerpt from page number 145 which mentions the periodicity for 2.2 engine. It says 15k or 2 years for fuel filter. I guess 15k looks mistyped as the 2yr duration should be equivalent to 30k kms (15k/year is assumption in manual).

Attachment 345449


-BJ
Thanks for the scan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysmokesleaves View Post
The interval for changing fuel filter is 30k kms. Its not during every service.
Oil filter has to be changed every service = 30k kms. But if you do a voluntary 7.5k kms oil change, you dont have to change oil filter.
Air filter is 45k kms or earlier if red band appears.

@ sen > the system D & Bardahl are a rip off. Congrats, you got conned!!

Ask yourself and the service advisor > if you are supposed to change fuel filter every 15k kms, then why do you need System D, especially since TMl recommends using normal diesel. Then also think, if you are doing a voluntary oil change @7.5k kms, then why do you need Bardahl engine treatment, especially since your Safari is NEW.
Okay, so Bardahl is not needed. But what does it really do?
I was told that this is kind of oil solution which helps reduce engine wear in our kind of driving condition with great heat, humidity and dust. I am also told that the effect of regular usage of this compund will show its effect when engine gets old - the engine will feel new even after 1 lakh kilometers.

That if true makes sense for me as I want to keep the car for a long long time to come.

System D is supposed to be a detergent suspension which will clean the fuel injectors and stuff. That too should make sense as I am not using Premium Diesel which comes with this additive.

Now we come to the fuel filter. The service book says that it needs replacement every service. So, what's the confusion here?
I think there are differences between the old and new service schedule and hence is the difference of opinion. There is no documented evidence of the 30K interval!

The air filter is not that expensive and given the dust, I guess it's ok to take that much of proactive protection. Same goes for Oil Filter.


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Originally Posted by HappyWheels View Post
Good questions JSL; result - there goes one good cow for the TASS that Sen2009 visits! They surely have milked him well!!!

And, they are perstering me for starting upon synthetic oil. Rs. 8000 odd per change, and change interval is no longer! Best part is, once you change to synthetic, you cannot come back to mineral. This is gong to be significantly extra cost for maintenance. The mineral vs. synthetic threads is at best indecisive.

What should one do here?
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Old 10th May 2010, 11:32   #2094
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Originally Posted by sen2009 View Post
Okay, so Bardahl is not needed. But what does it really do?

It reduces the weight of your wallet!

I was told that this is kind of oil solution which helps reduce engine wear in our kind of driving condition with great heat, humidity and dust. I am also told that the effect of regular usage of this compund will show its effect when engine gets old - the engine will feel new even after 1 lakh kilometers.

Neither the service advisor nor TML have any evidence to support this claim.
It would be better if you start using Bardahl when you reach 1 lakh kilometers.



That if true makes sense for me as I want to keep the car for a long long time to come.

Long in terms of years of long in terms of kilometers. Both are drastically different,


System D is supposed to be a detergent suspension which will clean the fuel injectors and stuff. That too should make sense as I am not using Premium Diesel which comes with this additive.

Now we come to the fuel filter. The service book says that it needs replacement every service. So, what's the confusion here?
I think there are differences between the old and new service schedule and hence is the difference of opinion. There is no documented evidence of the 30K interval!

The air filter is not that expensive and given the dust, I guess it's ok to take that much of proactive protection. Same goes for Oil Filter.




And, they are perstering me for starting upon synthetic oil. Rs. 8000 odd per change, and change interval is no longer! Best part is, once you change to synthetic, you cannot come back to mineral. This is gong to be significantly extra cost for maintenance. The mineral vs. synthetic threads is at best indecisive.

What should one do here?
I would say, if you go for synthetic then do not do an oil change at 7.5k.
If you are doing a 7.5k oil change using non fully synthetic oil then its still cheaper than replacing synthetic oil every 15k kms.
The choice is yours and depends upon the size of your wallet.

Cheers,

Jay
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Old 10th May 2010, 11:33   #2095
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Fuel Filter is to be changed every 30k ONLY, a notification (search my earlier posts) with the part number was issued by TATA, to all TASS which supercedes the manual.

Bardahl is an engine oil additive, not needed. You can do a Bardahl engine flush treatment at 45k service, to clean the engine slush.

"System D Extra" is a Fuel additive flush and is recommeded to be used at every 10k Interval, although I would say use it only once in a year after you have run atleast the first 10k kms.

Air filter although has to be changed at 45k but I have seen it dirty and ready to be replaced at 30k itself in city driving conditions.

No need to goto Synthetic, be on regular oil only as long as it meets the CH4 specifications and you change it at the specified/ or earlier intervals.
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Old 10th May 2010, 14:07   #2096
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysmokesleaves View Post
I would say, if you go for synthetic then do not do an oil change at 7.5k.
If you are doing a 7.5k oil change using non fully synthetic oil then its still cheaper than replacing synthetic oil every 15k kms.
The choice is yours and depends upon the size of your wallet.

Cheers,

Jay
Quote:
Originally Posted by dadu View Post
Fuel Filter is to be changed every 30k ONLY, a notification (search my earlier posts) with the part number was issued by TATA, to all TASS which supercedes the manual.

Bardahl is an engine oil additive, not needed. You can do a Bardahl engine flush treatment at 45k service, to clean the engine slush.

"System D Extra" is a Fuel additive flush and is recommeded to be used at every 10k Interval, although I would say use it only once in a year after you have run atleast the first 10k kms.

Air filter although has to be changed at 45k but I have seen it dirty and ready to be replaced at 30k itself in city driving conditions.

No need to goto Synthetic, be on regular oil only as long as it meets the CH4 specifications and you change it at the specified/ or earlier intervals.

Ok.. that solves the confusion then. Given the awareness level of my service advisor, I guess he doesn't know about this notification. I'll let him know for good!

Synthetic is out then. I'll rather continue mineral and change frequently.

I'll continue using Bardahl and system D - for their non prohibitive cost and a possible positive effect.
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Old 10th May 2010, 14:23   #2097
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Looks like the SA is better informed at Concord, Mysore Road, since I mentioned this fuel filter issue and he mentioned the booklet is wrong it if says 15k kms replacement.

Sen2009: Synthetic oil is purely based on your preference. If INR8k per oil change is not an issue, then go ahead. But, IMO, it is not worth it. Rather, go for it once your vehicle has crossed, say, 1 lakh Kms. That might be when you will feel the difference and the vehicle will need it. Not now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sen2009 View Post
...I'll continue using Bardahl and system D - for their non prohibitive cost and a possible positive effect.
Doing a engine flush at each oil change is not required. Even though I would like to suggest that there might be a negative effect, I am not, since I will not be able to substantiate it and it is based just on my belief. But just to put it as a side note, sometimes it helps having some dirt!

System D. Sigh!

Looks like you are trying to give your baby all the vitamins now itself. So, on the long run, lets see how he grows out to be.

Last edited by HappyWheels : 10th May 2010 at 14:26.
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Old 10th May 2010, 19:06   #2098
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Originally Posted by HappyWheels View Post
Looks like the SA is better informed at Concord, Mysore Road, since I mentioned this fuel filter issue and he mentioned the booklet is wrong it if says 15k kms replacement.

Sen2009: Synthetic oil is purely based on your preference. If INR8k per oil change is not an issue, then go ahead. But, IMO, it is not worth it. Rather, go for it once your vehicle has crossed, say, 1 lakh Kms. That might be when you will feel the difference and the vehicle will need it. Not now.
Completely Agree to this one.

Quote:
Doing a engine flush at each oil change is not required. Even though I would like to suggest that there might be a negative effect, I am not, since I will not be able to substantiate it and it is based just on my belief. But just to put it as a side note, sometimes it helps having some dirt!

System D. Sigh!
Are you sure about the possible negative effects?
I mean I don't need substantiation. I know you enough to seek that!
Is there any place I can get a little more dose on it?

Quote:
Looks like you are trying to give your baby all the vitamins now itself. So, on the long run, lets see how he grows out to be.
:-) See, bongs always prefer to load up their children with extra additives (vitamin, protein etc.). And, the children almost always grow up a little bit fatter.
Lets see how this one fairs out.
If it's not doing any bad and if it's not very expensive, then I believe I should use it. After all, I won't be able to turn the clock back after 1 lakh kilometers.
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Old 10th May 2010, 19:51   #2099
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Hi,

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Originally Posted by sen2009 View Post
:-) See, bongs always prefer to load up their children with extra additives (vitamin, protein etc.). And, the children almost always grow up a little bit fatter.
Fatter is definitely not better, medically!

What is the recommended fuel as per your Safari manual? If it is plain diesel, stick to it and forget System D. In almost all common rail diesel engines, it is specifically advised to avoid the premium variety of fuel.
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Old 10th May 2010, 23:26   #2100
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Sen,

I would advice to stick to the user manual in all aspects. My user manual says that the second service should be taken up at 5,000 kms or 6 months, whichever is earlier - and I am getting it done as my DICOR will be 6 months old soon. In fact, 'my version' of the user manual (TML says that this is a typo ) says that engine oil should be changed with every service viz. 1K kms, 5K kms, 15K kms, 30K kms, 45K kms, and so on. However, this would be the only front on which I would be taking a deviation from the manual where in I would be going for an oil change every 7.5K kms as recommended by most Safari owners on this forum.
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