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Old 17th June 2010, 17:29   #2221
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Originally Posted by dadu View Post
IOC wont help much, I am aware of this being reported in many Safari's and firstly I am assuming you have had the Retro done as it also has an ECU firmware update.

Now assuming that, as I suggest to everyone, I suggest you use System D @ 1ml/ltr for atleast 2 tankfuls i.e. pour 65ml System D in first full tank and then when the fuel warning indicator glows fill immediately with apprx 55ml system D.

Let us know once done.
Dadu,
What is Retro? I understand what ECU and FW is.

Since you are suggesting system D; what is your theory behind the issue?

Thanks
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Old 17th June 2010, 17:30   #2222
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Originally Posted by dadu View Post
Change of fuel company will have no effect, try System D as mentioned previously.

Can I use system D in new safari bought 15 days back , or should I use after first service done @1500 kms
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Old 17th June 2010, 18:08   #2223
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The puzzle Solved!!!

Sulfur is not a lubricant by itself, but it can combine with the nickel content in many metal alloys to form a low melting point eutectic alloy that can increase lubricity. The process used to reduce the sulfur also reduces the fuel's lubricating properties. Lubricity is a measure of the fuel's ability to lubricate and protect the various parts of the engine's fuel injection system from wear. The processing required to reduce sulfur to 15 ppm also removes naturally-occurring lubricity agents in diesel fuel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-low_sulfur_diesel

So essentially I.O.C I.M.H.O sells a higher sulfur content diesel while shell sells lower sulfur content diesel.Hence I.O.C diesel is more lubricative but more damaging to environment.


Even i have noticed that IOC fuel works well with Safari.Always have seen smoking and lack of smoothness when using shell diesel.I always used to fill shell fuel in my petrol car but feel that Safari is not happy with Shell diesel somehow.Also i have been using System-D from first week onwards and have seen that it improves overall smoothness.

Last edited by freewheelburnin : 17th June 2010 at 18:23.
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Old 17th June 2010, 18:59   #2224
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Originally Posted by freewheelburnin View Post
The puzzle Solved!!!
Well no this theory hold true if you buy Diesel from IOCL pump in BS2 town and compare with Shell in BS4 area . ALL PSU Companies are also required to sell same ULSD in BS4 cities.

In-fact the PSU share the distribution network and it really does not matter if you buy from IOCL or BP or HP. Also Relainace and Essar are two big refiners and thier distribution network does not consume the production so PSU marketing companies also off-take some Diesel from reliance ( other then export)

Lubricity of fuel just affect the fuel pump bearing and you have more chance of finding Kerosene mixed Diesel at un-naamed IOCL pump then shell so mystry remians :-) for those who believe IOCL is better.

I have found no difference if the Diesel is pure , Only in cases where I filled from unknown pumps in middle of nowhere had problem when pure kerosene was filled in :-)
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Old 17th June 2010, 20:38   #2225
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Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
Well no this theory hold true if you buy Diesel from IOCL pump in BS2 town and compare with Shell in BS4 area . ALL PSU Companies are also required to sell same ULSD in BS4 cities.

In-fact the PSU share the distribution network and it really does not matter if you buy from IOCL or BP or HP. Also Relainace and Essar are two big refiners and thier distribution network does not consume the production so PSU marketing companies also off-take some Diesel from reliance ( other then export)

Lubricity of fuel just affect the fuel pump bearing and you have more chance of finding Kerosene mixed Diesel at un-naamed IOCL pump then shell so mystry remians :-) for those who believe IOCL is better.

I have found no difference if the Diesel is pure , Only in cases where I filled from unknown pumps in middle of nowhere had problem when pure kerosene was filled in :-)

Well ULSD quality and properties will depend on the refinery,the processes,additives etc.Here is an example of a diesel standard
http://www.environment.gov.au/atmosp...ndex.html(This is governed by national laws and only an illustration).
There is wide margin for variations in these properties as is evident from the standards.The lubricity property (% of supfur) is limited only by a maximum value of .46 mm as per the standard under reference.



I am really not sure if oil PSUs share their fuel cos each has it's own refineries so logically they will share only if one has a shortage.Do you have data supporting it?

Diesel lubricity will affect the life of your fuel injection system.Please read below.
All diesel fuel injection equipment has some reliance on diesel fuel as a lubricant. The lubricating properties of diesel fuel are important, especially for rotary and distributor type fuel injection pumps. In these pumps, moving parts are lubricated by the fuel itself as it moves through the pump—not by the engine oil.Other diesel fuel systems—which include unit injectors, injectors, unit pumps, and in-line pumps are partially fuel lubricated.The lubricity of the fuel is an indication of the amount of wear or scarring that occurs between two metal parts covered with the fuel as they come in contact with each other. Low lubricity fuel may cause high wear and scarring and high lubricity fuel may provide reduced wear and longer component life.

The lubricity of diesel fuel can vary dramatically. It is dependent on a wide variety of factors, which include the crude oil source from which the fuel was produced, the refining processes used to produce the fuel, how the fuel has been handled throughout the distribution chain, and the inclusion of lubricity enhancing additives whether alone or in a package with other performance enhancing additives.A 1998 review paper on fuel lubricity worldwide2 showed that diesel fuel in the US and Canada is some of the poorest lubricity fuel found in the entire world.
Source :http://www.biodiesel.org/pdf_files/f.../Lubricity.PDF


I have noticed considerable difference when i had to fill in Shell diesel.
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Old 17th June 2010, 21:09   #2226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dadu View Post
IOC wont help much, I am aware of this being reported in many Safari's and firstly I am assuming you have had the Retro done as it also has an ECU firmware update.
IOC might not help but switching over to non-premium will definitely help! Also, his is a 4 month old vehicle, does not require a retro!!
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Old 17th June 2010, 21:34   #2227
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Originally Posted by freewheelburnin View Post

I am really not sure if oil PSUs share their fuel cos each has it's own refineries so logically they will share only if one has a shortage.Do you have data supporting it?

I have noticed considerable difference when i had to fill in Shell diesel.
Well there is a thread by Dr. Bhatti on T-BHP itself with lots of insider information. Fuel is pumped to regional depots through pipelines and same pipeline is used for Kerosene, petrol,diesel seprated by water heads, So this kind of explains why sometimes the Safari sedimentoer gets full :-)

I am well aware about effect of lubricity on fuel pump the only point I was making was that fuel quality depends more on the integrity and honesty of pump owner/operator rather then PSU company.

Shell being private may not have problem of adultration and that is real differenece rather then the refinary or sulpher content.
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Old 18th June 2010, 08:13   #2228
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mandyrana : Can I use system D in new safari bought 15 days back , or should I use after first service done @1500 kms
Do not use System-D in your Safari.

1. Tata does not recommend using it in their Dicor engines.
2. Your Safari is fresh off the factory for you to use any additives.
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Old 18th June 2010, 09:08   #2229
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Originally Posted by condor View Post
Do not use System-D in your Safari.

1. Tata does not recommend using it in their Dicor engines.
2. Your Safari is fresh off the factory for you to use any additives.
NO System-D Extra, Bardhal Diesel Tune and BGF are recommended for Dicor engines but you should use them as per symptoms.
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Old 18th June 2010, 11:13   #2230
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Originally Posted by Bose View Post
Dadu,
What is Retro? I understand what ECU and FW is.

Since you are suggesting system D; what is your theory behind the issue?

Thanks
Bad fuel, uneven injector spray and deposits. As I understand from the previous posts, your vehicle is new, so its doesnt require a retrofitment. Retro was a set of upgraded parts for safari.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mandyrana View Post
Can I use system D in new safari bought 15 days back , or should I use after first service done @1500 kms
No, do not use any Additive for the first 5k kms and preferably not till the first 10k kms (unless you have some symptoms which need corrections)

Quote:
Originally Posted by freewheelburnin View Post
The puzzle Solved!!!

Sulfur is not a lubricant by itself, but it can combine with the nickel content in many metal alloys to form a low melting point eutectic alloy that can increase lubricity. The process used to reduce the sulfur also reduces the fuel's lubricating properties. Lubricity is a measure of the fuel's ability to lubricate and protect the various parts of the engine's fuel injection system from wear. The processing required to reduce sulfur to 15 ppm also removes naturally-occurr
No need to go through all that I had already explained earlier that the lubricity of diesel is measured seperately by the Oil companies and its the same for BSIII and BSIV fuel, despite the drastic reduction in sulphur content between the two norms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cool_dube View Post
IOC might not help but switching over to non-premium will definitely help! Also, his is a 4 month old vehicle, does not require a retro!!
Yes, I agree, Shell adds some amount of additives to their normal diesel too, when I requested the specs from them via mail and phone and on their pump, nobody was willing to provide me one.

Both TATA and Delphi recommends System D and xxx Injector cleaner respectively for their fuel systems, both are based on same chemical contents and both source it from Chevron.
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Old 18th June 2010, 12:09   #2231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [B
tsk1979][/b]
New problem in the safari.
When the car is stationary and I turn the steering wheel, I hear khat khat sounds coming from somewhere below. Its not the "full lock idler arm khut", but comes during turning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by suman View Post
Your center Pin needs greasing
Suman is right, please get the center pin greased. Infact this needs to be done at every service (or after every high pressure wash).

Related Question - is the cost of greasing the center pin part of regular service or is it charged separately? I've had both experiences with different TASS dealers in Gurgaon.
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Old 18th June 2010, 12:13   #2232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by condor View Post
Do not use System-D in your Safari.

1. Tata does not recommend using it in their Dicor engines.
2. Your Safari is fresh off the factory for you to use any additives.
A senior service manager at TASS recommended that I use Regular Diesel with sys-d in my Dicor and told me not to use Xtra-Premium/Hi-Speed etc.
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Old 19th June 2010, 08:49   #2233
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Originally Posted by testdrive View Post
A senior service manager at TASS recommended that I use Regular Diesel with sys-d in my Dicor and told me not to use Xtra-Premium/Hi-Speed etc.
I had been using sys-d for past 18 months and only mixed it on long trips. For city drives i only use normal diesel. It certainly makes a difference. There is a marginal mileage increase too.
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Old 19th June 2010, 10:02   #2234
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How authentic is the information on this link?
A Comparison of Car Additives (Fuel/Oil/Gearbox/Differential) | TATA Safari Club.com
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Old 19th June 2010, 10:14   #2235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bose View Post
He's a member here too and has posted his TCIC engine cleanup by opening it up, this is his personal blog and experiences on TCIC engine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by v&v View Post
I had been using sys-d for past 18 months and only mixed it on long trips. For city drives i only use normal diesel. It certainly makes a difference. There is a marginal mileage increase too.
As you see experiences vary, try it first to form an opinion. It definitely improves the burn.

Last edited by dadu : 19th June 2010 at 10:17.
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