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Old 10th November 2010, 11:27   #2746
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Counter point : The only time your vehicle has probably 100% new lube oil instead of old/new (30-70 mix) is when its from the factory. Thats probably the best oil she will get...
That is a very good point there, TSK!

Now that brings a point - that might be on the border of an over-kill: Does it make sense to do a engine flush during all engine oil changes? You at least get the max amount of old oil out of the vehicle.
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Old 10th November 2010, 12:06   #2747
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when the old oil is drained out, only a very small amount remains in the engine, and that is no issue.
the problem i that some workshops mix 30-70 or 20-80 ratios of old-new oil and then fill in the cars.
This is not a Tata problem, this is in general a workshop problem

I also started a thread on this long time back
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...il-change.html

You can provide your inputs there.

Regarding oil change recommendation at 1000kms or earlier than 15000kms, the reason is simple.
You may have bought your vehicle on a certain, date, but it may have been manufactured 3-4 months earlier.
So the oil is old.
So waiting till 15000kms will make it older than what mfr recommends(1 year).
Therefore it is often advised to get fresh oil change sooner, and after that follow mfr recommendations.

The 2.2 engine has been testing with same engine oil for 30000kms + with no ill effects when a API-CH4 or higher oil is used.

The reason is simple, such big diesels take a lot of oil (7.5L) and spin around 2200-2500 rpm max, which is much lower than 3000-4000rpm which petrol engines normally do.

So if you are not a person who changes gears at 3500rpm. you are okay with the 15000 interval.

Another scenario where you should change oil sooner is if you regularly do traffic jams.

Kms do not matter to engine, time it is on matters.
So for someone doing mostly highway, the engine may remain on for 2 hours for 100kms.
For someone doing city traffic in traffic jams, engine may remain on for 10 hours for 100kms.

So in 15000kms, the same engine in a city car may be on for 1000 hours approx
In a primarily highway car, this figure would be 300-400 hours.

So city driven vehicles need an oil change sooner.
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Old 10th November 2010, 12:48   #2748
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I agree with tsk's post above. Two of my past vehicles used to have the Oil Change Indicators which would display the miles you can do before the next oil change. These vehicles use a combination of oil sensors + rpm counters. I have noticed that during stop and go commute to the city the "kms left for oil change" would keep decreasing even though I was covering hardly any distance in crawling traffic. But essentially my engine was continuing to run even when I was not covering much miles due to really bad traffic.

This is why i feel that those who floor the vehicles all most of the time and do a lot of city driving should conservatively change the oil about 25% kms before the manufacturer recommended service. The Scorpio mhawk now has 20K service intervals, but I don't intend to keep it that long..
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Old 10th November 2010, 13:08   #2749
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Originally Posted by HappyWheels View Post
Now that brings a point - that might be on the border of an over-kill: Does it make sense to do a engine flush during all engine oil changes? You at least get the max amount of old oil out of the vehicle.
Engine flush does improve the engine performance. I would say every 30K+ should be fine. I have seen them using bardhal Engine tuneup and flush in T.A.S.S.
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Old 10th November 2010, 13:23   #2750
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
...Kms do not matter to engine, time it is on matters.
So for someone doing mostly highway, the engine may remain on for 2 hours for 100kms.
For someone doing city traffic in traffic jams, engine may remain on for 10 hours for 100kms.

So in 15000kms, the same engine in a city car may be on for 1000 hours approx
In a primarily highway car, this figure would be 300-400 hours.

So city driven vehicles need an oil change sooner.
Yes, time and load should be the factors for a engine change, if you are not driving in "standard conditions". And didn't know that TATA had tested for double the time they had recommended.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
...This is why i feel that those who floor the vehicles all most of the time and do a lot of city driving should conservatively change the oil about 25% kms before the manufacturer recommended service...
+1

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Originally Posted by dadu View Post
Engine flush does improve the engine performance. I would say every 30K+ should be fine. I have seen them using bardhal Engine tuneup and flush in T.A.S.S.
TASS does the Bardhal treatement by default! Not at all required. And, my note was on trying to get as much of the old oil and its slush out and not for engine performance; but yes, agree to your point.
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Old 10th November 2010, 15:54   #2751
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
when the old oil is drained out, only a very small amount remains in the engine, and that is no issue.
the problem i that some workshops mix 30-70 or 20-80 ratios of old-new oil and then fill in the cars.
This is not a Tata problem, this is in general a workshop problem
The above may be totally true which is why I have insisted to personally observe the oil change process and see the new oil being measured and put into my engine. It does take time and patience and you almost end up losing an entire working day at the TASS, but I feel its worth the peace of mind thereafter. Its best to schedule an oil change service over a weekend so you can see the process if you want to and NOTE; No TASS can refuse to let you see the oil change if you insist you want to see it.
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Old 10th November 2010, 16:14   #2752
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Originally Posted by HappyWheels View Post
TASS does the Bardhal treatement by default! Not at all required. And, my note was on trying to get as much of the old oil and its slush out and not for engine performance; but yes, agree to your point.
Nothing is done as default, specifically when it involves more cost, you should refuse to pay if they didnt check with you for any additional treatments.

Flush per se, is meant for removing slush from the engine which inturn improves performance due to cleaner engine. Its not an oil additive, its mixed into old oil and drained after running for few minutes.
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Old 10th November 2010, 18:09   #2753
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Yes, time and load should be the factors for a engine change,
On a lighter note, pls don't heed the above suggestions from Happywheels in the context of scheduled oil changes, he will ensure that your service is one expensive affair at this rate.
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Old 10th November 2010, 19:22   #2754
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyWheels View Post
Please do change the oil and oil filter before the trip; but do not let this stop you from changing the oil or filter at 15k kms service.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Counter point : That said, I went for a voluntary oil change at 7500kms, because I had done 4WD driving in the desert around 3000-4000kms mark.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Another scenario where you should change oil sooner is if you regularly do traffic jams.

Kms do not matter to engine, time it is on matters.

For someone doing city traffic in traffic jams, engine may remain on for 10 hours for 100kms.

So city driven vehicles need an oil change sooner.
Thanks everyone

Here is what i infer and decided on the of basis your inputs:

1. City traffic + stop n go - driven car need a quicker oil change, may be 25% before the recommended time.

2. I have run 7k, with approx 6k in the city in 6 months, scheduled time is 15k or 1 year. The car is a May 10 manufactured, so has 7 month old oil in it.

3. After I do the trip which is approx 3.5k, and be back in 1st week dec, the car would have run ~ 12k and would have been 7 months old, and the oil 8 months old, and out of the 12k run, ~4k would have been on the highway.

That is when i do the oil change

I had one more question, and I'm asking it here itself:

The Safari fuel tank is 65L, i filled up 68.4 or 68.5, in my last top up day before yesterday. This also involved some bit of old school 'rocking' of the car from one side to the other. I almost ran the car dry before i did this, just for this experiment.

My 2 questions:

1. Is this normal, if the car would have been really really low on diesel and hence would have taken the 3 lts extra.

OR

2. Is my fuel bunk cheating me....

Cheers, slicks
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Old 10th November 2010, 19:58   #2755
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Originally Posted by Lukeskywalker View Post
On a lighter note, pls don't heed the above suggestions from Happywheels in the context of scheduled oil changes, he will ensure that your service is one expensive affair at this rate.
Yikes! What a typo!

But hey, best way to keep the engine always new - get a new one!

Quote:
Originally Posted by slicks View Post
...
3. After I do the trip which is approx 3.5k, and be back in 1st week dec, the car would have run ~ 12k and would have been 7 months old, and the oil 8 months old, and out of the 12k run, ~4k would have been on the highway.

That is when i do the oil change
...
Mmm... well, if you want to change at 12k kms, do it, but then, you will definitely have to change at 15k kms during the service. So, just think where you will get more benefit - changing now or at 12k kms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by slicks View Post
...
The Safari fuel tank is 65L, i filled up 68.4 or 68.5, in my last top up day before yesterday. This also involved some bit of old school 'rocking' of the car from one side to the other. I almost ran the car dry before i did this, just for this experiment.

My 2 questions:

1. Is this normal, if the car would have been really really low on diesel and hence would have taken the 3 lts extra.

OR

2. Is my fuel bunk cheating me....

Cheers, slicks
First of all, please do not run it to such low level. Not good for fuel pump (the one inside your fuel tank, not the IOCL's and IBP's kinds).

And for the quantity, possible that the it took in so much due to very low residual level and add the method of filling that you did. So, yes, it is normal and no, bunk not cheating.
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Old 11th November 2010, 11:16   #2756
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Default Conclusions for OIL change

Conclusions:

Point 1: If your car has run 7500KMs and out of 7.5K if 6K (70 - 80%) is city driven in stop and go traffic and/or if you have ventured out to sandy/dusty environment in those 7.5K KMs then you can change oil at 7.5K. This is well recommended in owners manual.

Point 2:Engine's running time matters more than KMs.

Point 3:There is no point changing oil around 10K or 12K. With this you will not get better ROI. You have to change oil at 15K Service and for that you have to spend again.

Point 4:Try to observe oil change procedure yourself for peace of mind. In this world it is very difficult to rely on workshops mechanics.

On the other side I have observed workshops keep open big drums of engine oil without lid. So many cars pass by it and all contribute to dust into it. Why do not workshops give options to buy 5 liter, 2 liter, 1 liter containers to customers. I am really not comfortable with these poorly kept oil drums quality. I have observed this in Maruti Authorized Service Station and complained for it.

Last edited by anujmishra : 11th November 2010 at 11:17.
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Old 11th November 2010, 12:02   #2757
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Hi Gurus,
So far my beast is running fine. As usual my issues started cropping after my first TASS visit ;-)

1. I had my first highway run to Tirupati (~320 km) after the first service. I cant call it a highway ride as it is mostly two way roads. I cant speed much but it was not stop/ go city like traffic. I noticed that there is a momentary loss of power (for sub second). I noticed this more in the hilly ride to Tirumala. Now back in Chennai for the past 3 days, I dont seem to have the issue. Is the ECU not able to adjust for hilly ride.. Should I do something about it?

2. In my first service, SA advised me to go for Shell normal diesel. I told that I am not sure. He says for the BS4, its better. Any inputs?

3. SA also advised me to add additivies (System D) in the first service. I agreed without thinking. Now, I am not sure if the problem 1 is due to that.

Quote:
Point 1: If your car has run 7500KMs and out of 7.5K if 6K (70 - 80%) is city driven in stop and go traffic and/or if you have ventured out to sandy/dusty environment in those 7.5K KMs then you can change oil at 7.5K. This is well recommended in owners manual.
Yes. Manual clearly states if driven in city/ sandy or stressful conditions oil should be changed in 7.5k

Last edited by druva : 11th November 2010 at 12:14.
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Old 11th November 2010, 12:05   #2758
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Originally Posted by anujmishra View Post
Conclusions:

Point 3:There is no point changing oil around 10K or 12K. With this you will not get better ROI. You have to change oil at 15K Service and for that you have to spend again.
My safari usage is 30% highway and 70% city driving; I usually follow 10K oil change and found it useful too. You don't have to change the oil for usual 15K service if you inform the SA and shows proof that you had changed it before. I usually get the oil from outside and get it changed at T.A.S.S itself.

Moreover it is our own vehicle and we are more concerned than T.A.S.S.
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Old 11th November 2010, 12:06   #2759
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Originally Posted by HappyWheels View Post
Mmm... well, if you want to change at 12k kms, do it, but then, you will definitely have to change at 15k kms during the service. So, just think where you will get more benefit - changing now or at 12k kms.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anujmishra View Post

Conclusions:

Point 1: If your car has run 7500KMs and out of 7.5K if 6K (70 - 80%) is city driven in stop and go traffic and/or if you have ventured out to sandy/dusty environment in those 7.5K KMs then you can change oil at 7.5K. This is well recommended in owners manual.
the 15k change bit somehow got missed, and i agree with you HAppyWheels, Anuj; so plan to get oil changed on Monday around 7k kms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyWheels View Post
First of all, please do not run it to such low level. Not good for fuel pump (the one inside your fuel tank, not the IOCL's and IBP's kinds).
Well, at the end of it, I was worried of running the car completely dry, and was scared of air getting in, but the fuel pump point is also quite valid, tx again HappyWheels, now that this experiment has been done, will refuel a little earlier.

Cheers, slicks
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Old 11th November 2010, 13:44   #2760
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Originally Posted by druva View Post
I noticed that there is a momentary loss of power (for sub second). I noticed this more in the hilly ride to Tirumala. Now back in Chennai for the past 3 days, I dont seem to have the issue. Is the ECU not able to adjust for hilly ride.. Should I do something about it?
I also experience this and already reported this problem in this thread. Few things I observed more with my car

1. Most of the time it is observed in cold engine in my car. It takes some time in Safari to reach temperature to maximum (Around 7 - 9 Kms during morning hours in Bangalore).

2. This is generally observed around 1600 - 1900 RPMs. I think when Turbo kicks in I feel little lack of power momentarily. But this lack of power is quite annoying.

3. Sometimes back my observation was during down shifting on speed breakers and then re-accelerating in second or third gear.

If you get any solution for this problem do let us know.


Quote:
Originally Posted by LionX View Post
My safari usage is 30% highway and 70% city driving; I usually follow 10K oil change and found it useful too. You don't have to change the oil for usual 15K service if you inform the SA and shows proof that you had changed it before. I usually get the oil from outside and get it changed at T.A.S.S itself.

Moreover it is our own vehicle and we are more concerned than T.A.S.S.
This could result in adverse condition during warranty claim. They can flately refuse to change engine component if they see during recommended service duration you have not changed oil. You never know.

Last edited by anujmishra : 11th November 2010 at 13:47.
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