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Old 25th April 2011, 17:25   #3271
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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Originally Posted by rrsteer View Post
Hi Guys,

A stupid question. What are the repercussions of adding more than the recommended amount of engine oil. The mechanic added 8ltrs into my 2.2's engine!!
Simple question, why to go overboard and add more oil into engine than recommended?

Adding more oil definitely increase the oil pressure into the system and it will overburden its work. Also, it will deposit more carbon in the exhaust and engine head which in long term would not be good. It may be the case injectors would choke or would not give optimum performance.
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Old 25th April 2011, 18:43   #3272
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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Originally Posted by anujmishra View Post
Simple question, why to go overboard and add more oil into engine than recommended?

Adding more oil definitely increase the oil pressure into the system and it will overburden its work. Also, it will deposit more carbon in the exhaust and engine head which in long term would not be good. It may be the case injectors would choke or would not give optimum performance.
Simple answer I didn't go over or under board. The mechanic did.
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Old 26th April 2011, 20:25   #3273
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Default Tata Safari 2.2L Engine overhaul at 60k kms and suspension overhaul at 62k kms

Friends. I got an engine overhaul at 60k kms under extended warranty. Read on for details.

Symptoms; Engine oil consumption.

Reason & diagnosis;
At 28k kms TML had to replace the injectors and the entire fuel pressure lines due a service light issue. During the process on of the injectors was jammed in the head and could not be removed and hence they replaced the entire head with all its components, including injectors etc. This solved the service light problem, but started another problem.

Over time I began to observe engine oil reducing upto 1.5 liters over 5k kms. i reported this at the TASS and they replaced the oil seperator. It is common knowledge, that when a head replacement is done one has to replace piston & rings etc else engine compression reduces followed by engine oil consumption. I had brought this to the notice of the TASS but they wouldnt listen, stating rules & policies. Thus they changed the oil seperator.

Oil consumption persisted, then they changed the turbo.(under warranty)

Oil consumption persisted and increased and i began to feel the drop in performance due to reduced compression.

So this time I planned a long trip and did an oil change at the TASS and told them i will be back in 10 days.
15 days later i returned with 2 liters oil less in the engine after approx 7500kms. I asked them to do a compression test and also told them that i will not take the vehicle back unless the oil consumption problem is totally solved and verified.

They diagnosed reduced engine compression and put a claim for engine overhaul under extended warranty.

The vehicle was with the TASS for almost a month mostly due to bureaucratic delays in warranty claims. By now the vehicle was in its 3 rd year and in extended warranty, so TML refused to give an entirely new half engine stating extended warranty policies and procedures. I wrote to TML customer care and was in touch with their West Zone representative, but they refused to give me a new bottom half engine inspite of the problem being reported during manufacturers warranty.
NOTE; I was told that TML only provides a new engine in the first 15k kms as per company policies.

So an entire engine overhaul was done, including new sleeves, pistons and piston rings etc. I also got them to replace all bearings(not part of extended warrantyclaim) at my cost since the engine was opened for overhaul.

I now have a brand new engine at 60k kms. I had to bear a cost of approx 15k due to bearings etc. which were not part of the warranty claim since it was a voluntary decision.


SUSPENSION JOB at 62k kms.
I sent the Safari for its oil change at 62k after running in 2k kms. The ride had become quite harsh. Hence all the bushes were replaced.

Below is a breakup of costs for suspension job & oil change;

oil & filter > 2163
Assy rubber bushing bottom link > 530
Assy pivot bush > 377
Top link rubber bush > 576
Idler arm brkt/bush/machineing & lathe charges > 340
Oil change > FOC
Rear suspension dismantle & assemble with parts > 800
Front upper wishbone bush replacement labour > 600

TOTAL incl of taxes = 6241/-


POST SERVICE >

The ride has become like when the vehicle was new(well almost)

Last edited by jaysmokesleaves : 26th April 2011 at 20:32.
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Old 26th April 2011, 22:00   #3274
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Default Re: Tata Safari 2.2L Engine overhaul at 60k kms and suspension overhaul at 62k kms

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Originally Posted by jaysmokesleaves View Post
NOTE; I was told that TML only provides a new engine in the first 15k kms as per company policies.
adc would have told you otherwise!
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Old 26th April 2011, 22:37   #3275
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

I also got a head change done. No engine oil consumption problems at my end.
I guess its got a lot to do with how the head was changed.
On my old cars, just engine head is changed after 150,000kms without touching pistons etc.,
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Old 4th May 2011, 19:33   #3276
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

My Safari went into limp mode last Friday. The AC went off (blower was working though) and engine won't rev above ~1.5K. I also observed engine temp needle rising to about 60-65% (almost at halfway on the right white arc).
Took it to service center. No error codes coming up in the laptop.
They found some water and sludge kinda stuff in the sedimenter. Also some water in the diesel filter. They have cleaned these and did a 25 kilometer test run. Now, it seems fine.

Can these issues (sedimenter deposit and some water in diesel filter) send the car in limp mode? Aren't they supposed to throw up some kind of indicator or error code?

What should be my course of action now?
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Old 4th May 2011, 20:12   #3277
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Default Fuel quality ?

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What should be my course of action now?
Did you fill diesel somewhere other than your regular place ? Can you try another bunk ?

If their diagnosis & corrective action was the correct one, then the symptoms you have seen may not appear in the immediate future.
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Old 4th May 2011, 20:17   #3278
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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Originally Posted by sen2009 View Post
My Safari went into limp mode last Friday. The AC went off (blower was working though) and engine won't rev above ~1.5K. I also observed engine temp needle rising to about 60-65% (almost at halfway on the right white arc).
Took it to service center. No error codes coming up in the laptop.
They found some water and sludge kinda stuff in the sedimenter. Also some water in the diesel filter. They have cleaned these and did a 25 kilometer test run. Now, it seems fine.

Can these issues (sedimenter deposit and some water in diesel filter) send the car in limp mode? Aren't they supposed to throw up some kind of indicator or error code?

What should be my course of action now?

Water in diesel or a filled up sedimenter should trigger the sedimenter light to glow. If the sensors in the engine system flag a fault the service light should come on.. as long as none of the warning lights are coming on, you should be ok. IIRC, As per the manual, if the sedimenter light comes on then the car goes into limp mode.

reg the rise in engine temp, could be caused either by low coolant levels or the raditator fan not working.
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Old 4th May 2011, 20:32   #3279
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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Originally Posted by condor View Post
Did you fill diesel somewhere other than your regular place ? Can you try another bunk ?

If their diagnosis & corrective action was the correct one, then the symptoms you have seen may not appear in the immediate future.
I did fill up diesel from a IOC pump on Mumbai Nashik highway few days before the limp. My regular pump is a HP one. Will stick to that religiously from now on.


Quote:
Originally Posted by smsrini View Post
Water in diesel or a filled up sedimenter should trigger the sedimenter light to glow. If the sensors in the engine system flag a fault the service light should come on.. as long as none of the warning lights are coming on, you should be ok. IIRC, As per the manual, if the sedimenter light comes on then the car goes into limp mode.

reg the rise in engine temp, could be caused either by low coolant levels or the raditator fan not working.
That's what my concern is. Neither the check engine nor the sedimenter indicator came up. It doesn't give any error code in the laptop scan. If the engine did went to limp mode for sedimenter or diesel in water issue, indicators should have had come up.
That's why I am worried if its something else. Let us see - only time will tell.

Radiator fan is alright. Coolant level is also fine.
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Old 5th May 2011, 11:03   #3280
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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Originally Posted by smsrini View Post
Water in diesel or a filled up sedimenter should trigger the sedimenter light to glow...
Quote:
Originally Posted by sen2009 View Post
Radiator fan is alright. Coolant level is also fine.
Ambient temps are way to high these days. Pune is ~42 degrees already. If you have been revving hard or going in a stop-go traffic in blazing sun with AC on and a high payload on board, chances are engine temp might have increased momentarily causing temp sensors to kick in. A good way to diagnose would have been to let the engine cool-down for about 30 minutes or so and see if the problem went away on its own.

-BJ
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Old 5th May 2011, 11:25   #3281
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

Its 40+ in Delhi in summers, and never has the needle climbed above half way mark in our 2.2
It could be a busted temperature sensor which is somehow causing only low rpm fam on.
I am not sure if the safari has twin fans, or its one fan which runs at 2 rpm speeds.

Overheating can have 2 scenarios
1. Mechanical issue (fan/coolant) in which case sensor will throw an error code
2. Sensor failure in one of the circuits. This causes fan to remain on low speed as this sensor does not trigger the second stage of cooling. Temp needle will rise, however, there will be no error code.

Sedimenter blockage does not always trigger the console light, but the engine idle becomes sligthtly raised and its rough.
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Old 5th May 2011, 12:43   #3282
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Its 40+ in Delhi in summers, and never has the needle climbed above half way mark in our 2.2
It could be a busted temperature sensor which is somehow causing only low rpm fam on.
I am not sure if the safari has twin fans, or its one fan which runs at 2 rpm speeds.

Overheating can have 2 scenarios
1. Mechanical issue (fan/coolant) in which case sensor will throw an error code
2. Sensor failure in one of the circuits. This causes fan to remain on low speed as this sensor does not trigger the second stage of cooling. Temp needle will rise, however, there will be no error code.

Sedimenter blockage does not always trigger the console light, but the engine idle becomes sligthtly raised and its rough.

No Error codes - Hence no coolant or fan issues I guess.
Temperature sensor - Hmm.. this can be a problem. I have noticed of late that the fan remains on after switching off the engine far longer. I assumed that this is happening due to excessive heat and heavy AC usage (as correctly pointed out by bj96).

The slight roughness in engine idle has been there - or so I guess. As of now, it has traveled about 45 KM in pretty much the same condition, with high ambient temperature and AC at blower point 3. The problem has not come back. Let us see how it goes.
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Old 5th May 2011, 12:45   #3283
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

They may have cleaned sensor contacts also. This can make the problem go away.
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Old 5th May 2011, 12:53   #3284
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Its 40+ in Delhi in summers, and never has the needle climbed above half way mark in our 2.2
It could be a busted temperature sensor which is somehow causing only low rpm fam on.
I am not sure if the safari has twin fans, or its one fan which runs at 2 rpm speeds.
Its only a Single fan with one speed operation. Never heard the fan to run at variable speed.

Also its surprising that no error was reported then how does the ECU know to enable limp-home mode.

The service centre is not giving the right picture on this.
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Old 5th May 2011, 13:29   #3285
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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Originally Posted by dadu View Post
Its only a Single fan with one speed operation. Never heard the fan to run at variable speed.

Also its surprising that no error was reported then how does the ECU know to enable limp-home mode.

The service centre is not giving the right picture on this.
I do not think so.
When the safari was new, we were driving from service center back to Noida.
On the way the temp needle quickly reached red mark.

The service center guys came, and then hardwired the fan to remain on. They said they could do it only for 'low' setting.
So every time I drove above 1500rpm, the needle would start rising again and go upto 70%. With the fan off it quickly would touch red. But in this setting we were able to "limp" to the workshop.

I suspect either there are twin fans, or the single fan runs at variable speed.

From the noise increase when engine hot, I suspect there is a second fan somewhere, or maybe the primary fan has 2 speed settings.
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