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Old 19th July 2011, 19:33   #3571
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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There is some ECU thingy under the driver's seat in my VX. Not sure what is it, but, looks like may be the transfer case ECU /fuse setup. Try it.

EDIT- checked user manual. Indeed it is transfer case ECU (page #131 of user manual PDF).
Thanks bj96, I will check the underseat box and hope there is a fuse that has blown, else need to send it to the workshop as soon as I get the time.
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Old 20th July 2011, 11:07   #3572
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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Originally Posted by sen2009 View Post
I have an electrical question.
Which wire in the vehicle is hot ONLY when the engine is running. Not when the key is in first (when the music system works) or second (when dashboard indicators come up)or the springy third (where the engine cranks) on position . I need a wire which is hot only when the engine is running.
I need this for a GPS tracker application. There will be no meaningful load on the line. I just need a wire which has some (any voltage) when engine is running and no voltage (fully cold) when engine is not running, irrespective of the vehicles electrical switched on or off situation.

Any help will be hugely appreciated.
Nope, no such wire. You will get wires which start working when key is in ON position (not stereo on, but ON)
That is fine for gps tracker. It draws very little power, and nobody is going to leave key ON for a long time.
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Old 20th July 2011, 12:08   #3573
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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Originally Posted by sen2009 View Post
...a wire which has some (any voltage) when engine is running...
Not sure how practical my suggestion would be but am thinking aloud nevertheless. Following things get triggered "only" when engine is running:

1) Oil pressure indicator in dash (turns off)
2) Battery indicator (alternator) in dash (turns off)
3) (probably) door lock trigger too (locks door if none are ajar)
4) AC compressor (magnetic) clutch

Can you not tap any of the above triggers for your job?

-BJ
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Old 20th July 2011, 12:43   #3574
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

Hi,

Not sure if anyone faced this problem earlier but this is what I have faced twice in last 20 days and this happened 3 times

Incident 1
Safari 3L dicor at very slow speed (i guess 2nd gear). Sudden feeling as if car is trying to switch off/ignition miss. "Check Engine" turned on for a moment and then went off. Pressed accelerator and all fine. Car behave absolutely normally. Pls note that the car did not turn off and regained strength

Incident2
Car at slow speed. Sudden feeling as if car is trying to switch off/ignition miss. "Check Engine" did NOT turned on. I switched to neutral and took to side. Switched off -> Checked all liquids, temperature etc and all fine. Tried to Start and all fine and normal

Incident3 (Today)
Car at slow speed. Sudden feeling as if car is trying to switch off/ignition miss. "Check Engine" CAME UP. I switched to neutral and took to side. After 2 Seconds Engine Check went off on its own and car was normal

So the car suddenly looses ignition/power. It never switched off and simply regains strength in 1-2 seconds. All liquids, coolant, Temperature seem absolutely fine...

Any ideas what could be wrong?

The best is run about 37,500 Kms only and Fuel filter was changed at 30,000 Kms
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Old 20th July 2011, 14:38   #3575
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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Originally Posted by sen2009 View Post
I have an electrical question.
Which wire in the vehicle is hot ONLY when the engine is running.

Any help will be hugely appreciated.
I don't know how practical it is but can you tap wire going to fuel pump ?
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Old 20th July 2011, 14:47   #3576
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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Originally Posted by rajismine View Post
Hi,

Not sure if anyone faced this problem earlier but this is what I have faced twice in last 20 days and this happened 3 times
You need to diagnose this at TASS as check engine light came up then it must have logged some error codes. Don't just let them clear the error codes ask them to check the reason why it came?

Is it happening at any particular RPM band? Try to rev upto 4K in stand still car for cleaning cat-con of your Safari.
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Old 20th July 2011, 14:53   #3577
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by rajismine View Post
Hi,

Not sure if anyone faced this problem earlier but this is what I have faced twice in last 20 days and this happened 3 times

Incident 1
Safari 3L dicor at very slow speed (i guess 2nd gear). Sudden feeling as if car is trying to switch off/ignition miss. "Check Engine" turned on for a moment and then went off. Pressed accelerator and all fine. Car behave absolutely normally. Pls note that the car did not turn off and regained strength

Incident2
Car at slow speed. Sudden feeling as if car is trying to switch off/ignition miss. "Check Engine" did NOT turned on. I switched to neutral and took to side. Switched off -> Checked all liquids, temperature etc and all fine. Tried to Start and all fine and normal

Incident3 (Today)
Car at slow speed. Sudden feeling as if car is trying to switch off/ignition miss. "Check Engine" CAME UP. I switched to neutral and took to side. After 2 Seconds Engine Check went off on its own and car was normal

So the car suddenly looses ignition/power. It never switched off and simply regains strength in 1-2 seconds. All liquids, coolant, Temperature seem absolutely fine...

Any ideas what could be wrong?

The best is run about 37,500 Kms only and Fuel filter was changed at 30,000 Kms
Raj,

My 2.2 Dicor is at TASS for something similar. I was experiencing jerks at slow speeds ( 1st/2nd gear ) while releasing clutch and a couple of times at idle speeds as well. I suspected clutch wear and took to TASS.

They diagnosed this as injector fault. If you got a Check Engine light, the error would have surely lodged in the ECU, and be verified by TASS with their diagnostic tools.

hope this helps.
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Old 20th July 2011, 14:55   #3578
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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Originally Posted by anujmishra View Post
You need to diagnose this at TASS as check engine light came up then it must have logged some error codes. Don't just let them clear the error codes ask them to check the reason why it came?

Is it happening at any particular RPM band? Try to rev upto 4K in stand still car for cleaning cat-con of your Safari.
Its not any particular RPM that I have identified since it happens momentarily and by the time I figure the gauges out, its gone. All I have identified is that out of 3 instances, in two the Engine Check light came up

I revved it to max..4K and it smoked like hell but all was still fine...the car behaved normally

Quote:
Originally Posted by smsrini View Post
Raj,

My 2.2 Dicor is at TASS for something similar. I was experiencing jerks at slow speeds ( 1st/2nd gear ) while releasing clutch and a couple of times at idle speeds as well. I suspected clutch wear and took to TASS.

They diagnosed this as injector fault. If you got a Check Engine light, the error would have surely lodged in the ECU, and be verified by TASS with their diagnostic tools.

hope this helps.
My Car has been jerking forever. at 20,000 Kms they changes the whole clutch kit and that worked for a few days and back to same. Infact almost 95% of safaris here can tell about this jerk on gear change. However, the jerks in my car for last 203 months have become more prominent.

I also guess there are multiple things could be at fault and all revolve around fuel: 1.) Sedimenter(it does not glow on dash though when the fault occurs) 2.) Diesel/Fuel filter (But this was changed 7K kms back) 3.) Injectors need cleaning

I had a word with TASS and they said they charge for diagnostics and then will give separate quotation for repair. The diagnostic charge is Rs 600????


Rajeev

Last edited by rajismine : 20th July 2011 at 15:21.
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Old 20th July 2011, 15:28   #3579
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

Try System D for 2 tankful and check ..
I filled tank from a fuel station in KOlhapur noticed jerks and to dilute the effect kept on topping up with good diesel in Bangalore with System D and finally jerks were gone.

Last year same thing was observed when a fuel station in TN filled pure kerosene and I drove till Bangalore with out realizing.

Constant knocking due to bad fuel can damage injectors.
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Old 20th July 2011, 15:30   #3580
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

@rajismine: It could be injectors clogged, have seen a few 3.0L DICORS with that problem and one of the injectors were faulty in those cases.
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Old 20th July 2011, 16:24   #3581
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Nope, no such wire. You will get wires which start working when key is in ON position (not stereo on, but ON)
That is fine for gps tracker. It draws very little power, and nobody is going to leave key ON for a long time.
Basically its not for power requirements. That I can draw from the battery directly. I need this to get the engine on/off indicator working properly.
I tried tapping the line going into the RPM meter, but the voltage in this line is not all that consistent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bj96 View Post
Not sure how practical my suggestion would be but am thinking aloud nevertheless. Following things get triggered "only" when engine is running:

1) Oil pressure indicator in dash (turns off)
2) Battery indicator (alternator) in dash (turns off)
3) (probably) door lock trigger too (locks door if none are ajar)
4) AC compressor (magnetic) clutch

Can you not tap any of the above triggers for your job?

-BJ
Connections 1,2,3 goes out after the engine starts running.
So when vehicle is completely off, they are cold.
Key in first on position, they are cold.
Key in Second Position, they are hot.
Vehicle engine started, they are cold.

However, I need to check the AC Compressor thingy. But say if the AC switch is off, then it will be cold, even if engine is running, correct?


Quote:
Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
I don't know how practical it is but can you tap wire going to fuel pump ?
That can be the done, I guess.
In fact I am going to test an immobilizer relay fixed in this wire for remote immobilizing. Starter motor immobilizer is not much useful as the vehicle keeps running when immobilized. And also all self respecting thieves know it.

There's another way probably. The alternator - battery line voltage gets an approx. 2+ volts step up when the engine is running. I guess this can work!
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Old 20th July 2011, 16:36   #3582
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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Originally Posted by sen2009 View Post
Basically its not for power requirements. That I can draw from the battery directly. I need this to get the engine on/off indicator working properly.
I tried tapping the line going into the RPM meter, but the voltage in this line is not all that consistent.
If voltage variation is not very large, just fit a regulator(IC controlled) and you are fine with rpm meter.
You can also use KEY ON position as equivalent to engine start, since key is kept on on only when you intend to start the engine.
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Old 20th July 2011, 16:58   #3583
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
If voltage variation is not very large, just fit a regulator(IC controlled) and you are fine with rpm meter.
You can also use KEY ON position as equivalent to engine start, since key is kept on on only when you intend to start the engine.
The thing is the vehicle is driven by driver, so it remains on a lot (I mean when the engine is not running).


Actually, there are three issues here.
First, there is a fuel level meter in this device. The issue is, the dashboard fuel meter works only when vehicle engine is running or key is in 2nd On position.
I need to validate the fuel meter reading with the engine running position. If I don't do that, then the system reads fuel level as zero when the key is in first on position. And hence, shows me fifteen instances of fuel filling a day.

Secondly, I need an engine operation (hour wise) counter. This also won't be accurate if I tap into the ignition on line.

Thirdly and most deadly - Satellite triangulation keeps changing all day. Means, the location of the vehicle (as a point) keeps shifting by a little all the time. It stays within a small area, but moves nevertheless. This results in false movement indication. This is especially more when the vehicle is under some kind of shade and have a narrow cone for line of sight.
Hence, it is imperative that we validate the GPS points with either the acceleroemeter or Engine running sensor to eliminate these points. Accelerometers, while quite reliable as such have their own quirks. For one, they indicate movement even if there is a strong vibration (like a loaded truck passing by) around. HEnce, combination of an accelerometer and an engine on sensor to validate the data is imperative for accurate operation.
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Old 20th July 2011, 17:02   #3584
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by sen2009 View Post


Actually, there are three issues here.
First, there is a fuel level meter in this device. The issue is, the dashboard fuel meter works only when vehicle engine is running or key is in 2nd On position.
I need to validate the fuel meter reading with the engine running position. If I don't do that, then the system reads fuel level as zero when the key is in first on position. And hence, shows me fifteen instances of fuel filling a day.

Secondly, I need an engine operation (hour wise) counter. This also won't be accurate if I tap into the ignition on line.

Thirdly and most deadly - Satellite triangulation keeps changing all day. Means, the location of the vehicle (as a point) keeps shifting by a little all the time. It stays within a small area, but moves nevertheless. This results in false movement indication. This is especially more when the vehicle is under some kind of shade and have a narrow cone for line of sight.
Hence, it is imperative that we validate the GPS points with either the acceleroemeter or Engine running sensor to eliminate these points. Accelerometers, while quite reliable as such have their own quirks. For one, they indicate movement even if there is a strong vibration (like a loaded truck passing by) around. HEnce, combination of an accelerometer and an engine on sensor to validate the data is imperative for accurate operation.
Then RPM meter output fed to a voltage regulator IC is your best bet.
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Old 20th July 2011, 17:48   #3585
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

Friends - today wasn't a good day; was speeding inside city and when trying to squeeze between a parked bus and a moving van on my right, (overtaking from left, stupid me), banged the left ORVM on the bus - the glass shattered, but the shell is intact and indicator is also working.

I went to TASS (KHT), they quoted approximately 5000Rs for a new set - it comes with the shell and everything; they suggested I try in JC Road for just the inner glass and plastic part - which I tried in the afternoon. Couple of guys there helped me search for the part but mostly couldn't find it.

Does anyone know where in Banglaore I can source this, if at all possible?
Wanted to try to get this first which should be roughly around 500Rs, instead of shelling out 5000Rs.

Thanks for any help. I find it very difficult to drive without the left ORVM and to an extent crippled. Need to replace ASAP.
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