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Old 20th July 2011, 18:07   #3586
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

Can some one help me getting the email Address/ Contact details of the Head office of Grevience Cell where we can register complaints.


Recently the Brake Booster was changed in Safari and from that day i am having lots of problems with the brakes, and when approached service advisor he is telling that it all fine. but the brakes are not working until unless i pump it twice.

regards
suresh
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Old 20th July 2011, 18:14   #3587
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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Originally Posted by SPEEDY_RACER View Post
Can some one help me getting the email Address/ Contact details of the Head office of Grevience Cell where we can register complaints.


Recently the Brake Booster was changed in Safari and from that day i am having lots of problems with the brakes, and when approached service advisor he is telling that it all fine. but the brakes are not working until unless i pump it twice.

regards
suresh
Get the master-cylinder checked, it might be the cause of problem. I got mine changed when the brake booster was repaired.
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Old 20th July 2011, 19:02   #3588
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Then RPM meter output fed to a voltage regulator IC is your best bet.
Let me try it and see.
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Old 20th July 2011, 19:28   #3589
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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Originally Posted by mercedised View Post
Get the master-cylinder checked, it might be the cause of problem. I got mine changed when the brake booster was repaired.
The entire brake booseter, master Cylinder every thing was changed after that i started getting the problem ..

so if some one can share me the details it would be helpful.
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Old 22nd July 2011, 16:14   #3590
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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Originally Posted by smsrini View Post
Raj,

My 2.2 Dicor is at TASS for something similar. I was experiencing jerks at slow speeds ( 1st/2nd gear ) while releasing clutch and a couple of times at idle speeds as well. I suspected clutch wear and took to TASS.

They diagnosed this as injector fault. If you got a Check Engine light, the error would have surely lodged in the ECU, and be verified by TASS with their diagnostic tools.

hope this helps.

Got the injectors replaced under Extended Warranty. Now the SA says that the timing belt is frayed, and suggests going for replacement of the timing belt as well under Extended Warranty.

What all are the mandatory parts to be replaced along with the timing belt ? Does the water pump have to be changed as well ?
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Old 22nd July 2011, 16:33   #3591
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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Early this week, I had gone on a trip to a coffee plantation, there during a drive in the plantation trails, the vehicle got stuck in some slush, to my consternation, when I switched on 4H, nothing happened, no indication in the dashboard cluster and I could feel that the 4WD had not engaged, even 4L did not work, but the beast that it is, with some effort and some stones put under the wheels I managed to extricate the vehicle,
Gurus, what could be the problem, it sure does look like an electrical fault to me, but I could be grossly wrong
Went to Prerana Motors Peenya today as it coincided with some work I had in the same area, 4WD not working was diagnosed to be a loose connection in the transfer case ECU harness, and I was wrong about there being no fuse for the transfer case, it is a 20 amps fuse right there in the dashboard fuse box, I must have missed reading the layout.
I met Raghavendra, a service advisor who seemed to know his job and knowing Satish Shetty, their A.G.M service, who was also present made it a pleasant experience overall, now contemplating leaving my Safari at Peenya for it's next service.
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Old 22nd July 2011, 19:49   #3592
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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Originally Posted by sen2009 View Post
... Actually, there are three issues here.
... I need to validate the fuel meter reading with the engine running position. If I don't do that, then the system reads fuel level as zero when the key is in first on position. And hence, shows me fifteen instances of fuel filling a day. ...
What hardware are you using for this application? That is, does it have analog and digital signal input capabilities? If so, what kind? What processing capabilities does it have?

Not everything needs an extra hardware validation. For example, (if one has decent processing capabilities), one can use a trend of values - say least/average/max of last 5 valid non-zero readings, and reject values that defy this trend, including 0. That way, even if you turn the switch to off, the last few values are retained for any calculations involving fuel quantity.

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Originally Posted by sen2009 View Post
... Secondly, I need an engine operation (hour wise) counter. This also won't be accurate if I tap into the ignition on line. ...
Tap into the alternator output with a capacitor to extract the ripple. No ripple = engine off. 'Burst' of signal with nothing before or after: reject as implausible. Ripple will be of the order of 1-2V p-p. It is also possible to infer from the battery line voltage by associating voltage bands with operating conditions. For example, <10.8V = cranking (if this voltage is showing for >5secs, battery health is suspect); 11-13.2V=engine off; >13.2V= engine running.

@tsk is suggesting doing the same from the RPM signal. @tsk, will a VR be appropriate or a capacitor and a diode? Diode to extract inst. avg. value of RPM signal, small cap shunt across diode cathode and ground to hold the (inst. avg.) value. Scale in software as required.

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Originally Posted by sen2009 View Post
... Thirdly and most deadly - Satellite triangulation keeps changing all day. Means, the location of the vehicle (as a point) keeps shifting by a little all the time. ...
Implement a software filter to remove 'noise'. Play around with the filter time-constant to get the most optimum results.

Alternately, 'trend' the geographic path taken by the vehicle, so that 'deviant' data can be dropped off. For handling breaks in signal, use the same trend - but now compare 'history' trend with 'current' trend and set LL/UL for validating which should you use. You might have taken a 90deg, or even a U-turn, so you need to detect that!

Basically, such stuff is dependent available on processing power. One doesn't need much power if one uses very simple, appropriate mathematical techniques to overcome real world challenges.
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Old 22nd July 2011, 22:18   #3593
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPEEDY_RACER View Post
Can some one help me getting the email Address/ Contact details of the Head office of Grevience Cell where we can register complaints.


Recently the Brake Booster was changed in Safari and from that day i am having lots of problems with the brakes, and when approached service advisor he is telling that it all fine. but the brakes are not working until unless i pump it twice.

regards
suresh
Call 080-66373400-09. You can also try the 1-800 number.

There is a close to 50 degrees slop near my office which I can climb easily in 1st gear around 1600-1700 rpm. However, today the vehicle could not climb the same slope from standstill. On half-clutch, the rpm just would not move beyond 1200ish with clutch, accelerator and brake pressed/released. Even 4H did not help. 4L would have done the work, but did not try.

Any pointers? The clutch is otherwise working fine, at least there is no slippage.
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Old 23rd July 2011, 21:08   #3594
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
What hardware are you using for this application? That is, does it have analog and digital signal input capabilities? If so, what kind? What processing capabilities does it have?
I am using a Teltonika FM4200 connected to Wialon.
Links :-
Teltonika - FM4200 | Teltonika
Wialon - GPS Tracking Software: GPS Fleet Management, Vehicle GPS Tracking System - Gurtam

The Device has 4 Analog and 4 Digital Sensors.
I am not very sure, but I think the processor is ARM 11.

Quote:
Not everything needs an extra hardware validation. For example, (if one has decent processing capabilities), one can use a trend of values - say least/average/max of last 5 valid non-zero readings, and reject values that defy this trend, including 0. That way, even if you turn the switch to off, the last few values are retained for any calculations involving fuel quantity.
I did not quite get this. How do I create or define a trend. And more specifically how do I make the software do it? I do not have any code level access.
There are a plethora of options in the software, I will browse all and find out if anything related is there.
N.B - If you (or anyone) wants to check out the software, please drop a buzz. I shall share the login credentials. (It's a web based thing, so no installation is needed).


Quote:
Tap into the alternator output with a capacitor to extract the ripple. No ripple = engine off. 'Burst' of signal with nothing before or after: reject as implausible. Ripple will be of the order of 1-2V p-p. It is also possible to infer from the battery line voltage by associating voltage bands with operating conditions. For example, <10.8V = cranking (if this voltage is showing for >5secs, battery health is suspect); 11-13.2V=engine off; >13.2V= engine running.
Hmm...
The Analog inputs are negative type and can read voltage in a line. And doing that I have achieved satisfactory results. The system allows me to create a calculation table to convert sensor values. I have created it in such a way that any value in the alternator line below 12.5 V is to be treated as 0 and anything above as 1. This gives me a modified digital sensor with binary output.
This is giving me beautiful notification about engine on/off status with no error.
But, Why do I need a capacitor? What is ripple?
Can the general digital / analog sensors sense ripple?
This device has a pulse input as well ( normally to be connected to pulse type fuel flowmeters). Can that be used?
Please let me know if I can post any further detail about the hardware? (I have a 63 page manual).

Quote:

@tsk is suggesting doing the same from the RPM signal. @tsk, will a VR be appropriate or a capacitor and a diode? Diode to extract inst. avg. value of RPM signal, small cap shunt across diode cathode and ground to hold the (inst. avg.) value. Scale in software as required.
I did not understand this part!

Quote:
Implement a software filter to remove 'noise'. Play around with the filter time-constant to get the most optimum results.
Need to figure out how to do it. The software has some kind of filter to reduce noise in the fuel sensor. (The values change when the vehicle jerks and the float bobs). Need to see if that algorithm can be used in other sensors as well.

Quote:
Alternately, 'trend' the geographic path taken by the vehicle, so that 'deviant' data can be dropped off. For handling breaks in signal, use the same trend - but now compare 'history' trend with 'current' trend and set LL/UL for validating which should you use. You might have taken a 90deg, or even a U-turn, so you need to detect that!
I am sure my software vendor will cry!
Quote:
Basically, such stuff is dependent available on processing power. One doesn't need much power if one uses very simple, appropriate mathematical techniques to overcome real world challenges.
I guess ARM 11 (if it is ARM 11) is up to the task. The device triangulates every second and has been consistently handling the tasks for some time. The global feedback on this one is also pretty strong.
I guess when I hook up the CANBUS then the real fuin will start. :-)
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Old 25th July 2011, 13:29   #3595
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

smsrini,

I own a Feb -2011 model 2.2 Dicor VTT safari. My beast has run 11600 Kms till date. I am a newbie to BHP.
I am going to TASS (Concorde Motors, Mysore Road) tomorrow with my beast for similar kind of problems (1. jerking/gasps with smoke puffs very often at low speeds and (2). I feel like the engine is trying to switch off and after accelerating it will regain its strength)

I have read through the earlier posts in this thread and came to know about the probable problems.
1. Injectors to be checked
2. Air Filters to be checked.

Can somebody tell me what extra care should be taken or what should I expect from the TASS service advisor, so that I may not accept whatever the SA tells me. I am writing this because, I have reported the same issue couple of times to TASS, but they say it is common across all 2.2s.

I am waiting for the inputs from you all - experts. PLEASE HELP

Thanks,
SHAMS

Quote:
Originally Posted by smsrini View Post
Raj,

My 2.2 Dicor is at TASS for something similar. I was experiencing jerks at slow speeds ( 1st/2nd gear ) while releasing clutch and a couple of times at idle speeds as well. I suspected clutch wear and took to TASS.

They diagnosed this as injector fault. If you got a Check Engine light, the error would have surely lodged in the ECU, and be verified by TASS with their diagnostic tools.

hope this helps.
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Old 25th July 2011, 14:40   #3596
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

Sheelz,

I am not sure whether you have already got the resolution for this problem. Even I had faced a similar problem couple of weeks back.
There is a pipe at the bottom left side corner (Near the clutch pedal) which drains out the water from AC unit when you engage AC. This pipe was pulled towards inside and hence whenever I engage AC, water would come inside and the carpet used to get wet. I took my beast to TASS, concorde motors, Mysore road. They fixed it with in 5 mins.
You can also do it yourself if you have proper equipments (hallen key) to remove one screw.

Hope this helps.

Thanks,
Shams

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheelz View Post
HI there

There is an issue that has cropped up recently. During rainy days/high humidity days, when I use Ac, I find some water dripping on my left toe(clutch). Now I don't know where this water is coming from??? If it continues, then it might lead to some corrosion..Am I right??

Cheers
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Old 25th July 2011, 15:14   #3597
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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Originally Posted by smsrini View Post
Got the injectors replaced under Extended Warranty. Now the SA says that the timing belt is frayed, and suggests going for replacement of the timing belt as well under Extended Warranty.

What all are the mandatory parts to be replaced along with the timing belt ? Does the water pump have to be changed as well ?
I think you should put pressure on them to get the retro fit kit for timing. It includes a lots of part(perhaps the water pump also).
Do not delay it. A broken timing belt can be a lot of trouble.
Older safari's had a defect, and with this new retro, things are fine now.
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Old 25th July 2011, 16:12   #3598
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

Hi All,
I own a Feb -2011 model 2.2 Dicor VTT safari. My beast has run 11600 Kms till date. I am a newbie to BHP.
I am going to TASS (Concorde Motors, Mysore Road) tomorrow with my beast for the problems mentioned below
1. jerking/gasps with smoke puffs very often at low speeds
2. I feel like the engine is trying to switch off and after accelerating it will regain its strength
3. A lot of cabin noise when my beast crosses 100KMPH. Mainly somewhere near leftside front door.
4. Low fuel economy ( ~9.7 kmpl in city limits, 80% without AC 20% with AC)
Can some one let me know if you have already faced similar problems with your beast so that it will help me in narrowing my investigations and finding the solutions.

I have read through the earlier posts in this thread and came to know about the probable problems.
1. Injectors to be checked for point #1
2. Air Filters to be checked for point #2.
PLEASE HELP !!!
Thanks,
Shams
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Old 25th July 2011, 20:49   #3599
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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Originally Posted by shams_4x4 View Post
Sheelz,

...pipe was pulled towards inside ...You can also do it yourself if you have proper equipments (hallen key)...
Can you post a close-up picture of the area for the benefit of all of us.
Thanks.
-BJ
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Old 26th July 2011, 12:55   #3600
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by shams_4x4 View Post
I own a Feb -2011 model 2.2 Dicor VTT safari. My beast has run 11600 Kms till date.
Wow - you sure seem to be on a mile-munching spree

Quote:
Originally Posted by shams_4x4 View Post
1. jerking/gasps with smoke puffs very often at low speeds
I have seen many instances of this issue being reported on this forum. Personally, I have faced this only twice till date (over my 20 months/15,000 kms of ownership). Based on advice from stalwarts, I did some high-revving (drive in excess of 3,500 RPM for some distance) and it worked for most. Yet to face the issue again. Will be going for my 2-year service shortly and will ask them to investigate once.

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Originally Posted by shams_4x4 View Post
2. I feel like the engine is trying to switch off and after accelerating it will regain its strength
Does this occur in conjunction with issue #1?

Quote:
Originally Posted by shams_4x4 View Post
3. A lot of cabin noise when my beast crosses 100KMPH. Mainly somewhere near leftside front door.
Welcome to the Safari club This is something that you might have to live with. If you inspect the door panel gaps of the Safari closely, you will realize that this is a design flaw and not much can be done about it. You can try getting the door beading changed once but that might be of little/no help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shams_4x4 View Post
4. Low fuel economy ( ~9.7 kmpl in city limits, 80% without AC 20% with AC)
What are the highway figures you are getting? I have never had a chance to calculate my economy in city as my beast does only highway runs. I usually cruise in the 90-110 kmph band (rarely more, even on GQ roads) and get a consistent economy of 12.5-14 kmpl with A/C on most of the time.

Hope this helps!
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