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Old 20th August 2011, 18:52   #3661
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

Mods, excuse the back to back posts, the time limit had expired by the time I wanted to post this,

How does one know if the ABS is working as it should, I mean, I have felt the brake pedal vibrate when I have panic braked, but sometimes I do hear a slight squealing of tires (but no locking up) when braked suddenly, is this normal?
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Old 21st August 2011, 10:32   #3662
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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Originally Posted by Lukeskywalker View Post
sometimes I do hear a slight squealing of tires (but no locking up) when braked suddenly, is this normal?
Squealing of brakes will not be heard if you have braked (with ABS kicked in) in a straight line...steering held perfectly straight. Its the same squealing you hear when you take a sharp turn at moderate speeds on tarmac.
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Old 21st August 2011, 12:00   #3663
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

hello

with respect to above ecplanation the tata manual says when one brakes with abs on we may hear a grinding like sound which is of tyres not lockng and is perfectly normal

i have myself heard this sound

so now whats normal
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Old 21st August 2011, 19:36   #3664
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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Squealing of brakes will not be heard if you have braked (with ABS kicked in) in a straight line...steering held perfectly straight. Its the same squealing you hear when you take a sharp turn at moderate speeds on tarmac.
I was talking about tire squeal, what I wanted to know is how does one determine if ABS is working or not, because I have noticed tire squeal (read slight locking) initially ie. as soon as I jam on the brakes, and to the best of my knowledge, it was straight line braking, of course, in a panic braking situation, I would not be rehearsing the braking manual before slamming the brakes.
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Old 21st August 2011, 22:24   #3665
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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Originally Posted by Lukeskywalker View Post
I was talking about tire squeal,
I meant tire squeal, but wrote brake squeal...my bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukeskywalker View Post
what I wanted to know is how does one determine if ABS is working or not, because I have noticed tire squeal (read slight locking) initially ie. as soon as I jam on the brakes, and to the best of my knowledge, it was straight line braking,
In a perfect ABS system, there should be no tyre squeal, unless one of the four speed sensors do not activate on time. Is there is a delay in any one of the sensors, there will be a momentary tyre squeal heard.

If you can identify which of the tires squeal and if this happens consistently, then its time to get that sensor checked.

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of course, in a panic braking situation, I would not be rehearsing the braking manual before slamming the brakes.
I don't think anyone would be...
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Old 22nd August 2011, 17:00   #3666
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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Originally Posted by dadu View Post
1) Get the idler arm tightened to the max, usually they will leave it slack to soften the steering movement.

2) I had done a DIY after careful consideration on whats was causing it.

- Removed the hard rubber pad from the floor(left side) by removing the 2 screws and took it home.
- Cut out 2 defunct credit cards in its shape so that they can add extra padding and drilled the exact 2 screw holes for the screws.
- Placed these custom CC pads and then the original rubber pad and tightened the screws.

No squeaks forever.
Did as suggested and the solution does work.. Temporarily i have put the plasctic CD cover cut to the size of that floor door striker.

Yesterday drove through the same rough terrain to hear for squeeks, apparently very faint sound was heard but then i know i will this week, try to put a proper cutted CC plastic card there instead of plastic CD cover.

Thanks Dadu.. Saved me a trip to TASS and Rs. XXX and gave me a peace of mind
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Old 22nd August 2011, 19:58   #3667
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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Yesterday drove through the same rough terrain to hear for squeeks, apparently very faint sound was heard but then i know i will this week, try to put a proper cutted CC plastic card there instead of plastic CD cover.
Use a Platinum Card and you'll not hear the door complaining ever.
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Old 22nd August 2011, 20:48   #3668
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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Originally Posted by Kairalee View Post
... unless one of the four speed sensors do not activate on time. Is there is a delay in any one of the sensors, there will be a momentary tyre squeal heard.

If you can identify which of the tires squeal and if this happens consistently, then its time to get that sensor checked. ...
Well, almost, but not really!

There is no 'delay' in the sensors, which are simple reluctance sensors which are read off as a fixed duty cycle pulse stream continuously. Interruption of the pulse stream, whether momentary or long duration, would be flagged by the ABS. One stream faulty is OK - ABS will still act. 2 or more will prevent ABS from acting - tyre squeal possible.

What we are not sure from @luke's description whether the pedal shuddered at the time the tyres squealed. If it did, then the fault is elsewhere - rusty drum, rivet almost on surface (can't believe that with @luke's vandi), swollen pads etc. which would make a sound similar to tyre squeal. If it didn't, there has to be a reason why ABS refused to / didn't kick in (would be recorded in the ABS ECU).
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Old 22nd August 2011, 21:14   #3669
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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What we are not sure from @luke's description whether the pedal shuddered at the time the tyres squealed. If it did, then the fault is elsewhere - rusty drum, rivet almost on surface (can't believe that with @luke's vandi), swollen pads etc. which would make a sound similar to tyre squeal. If it didn't, there has to be a reason why ABS refused to / didn't kick in (would be recorded in the ABS ECU).
Well, I might not have described the situation correctly, the particular incident when I thought I heard the tyre squeal was not accompanied pedal shudder, but then again, the squeal was for hardly a second or less, almost like a protest, it was noticed both by me and Unni.ak a fellow bhpian who was the co-passenger, also, it might be of interest to say that we were returning after a small OTR in lots of mud and clay.

But another time I thought I felt the tyres slip was when I had braked on some loose sand on tarmac, then again there seemed to be a momentary skidding of tyres/tyre on sudden application of brakes.

On both occasions described above, I had only braked suddenly and not actually brought the vehicle to a stand still, which means I had released the brakes and carried on driving.

Now, as described by DerAlte, how does one get the ABS checked at the TASC, what do I need to tell them?
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Old 23rd August 2011, 08:37   #3670
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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Originally Posted by Rahulk76 View Post
Did as suggested and the solution does work.. Temporarily i have put the plasctic CD cover cut to the size of that floor door striker.

Yesterday drove through the same rough terrain to hear for squeeks, apparently very faint sound was heard but then i know i will this week, try to put a proper cutted CC plastic card there instead of plastic CD cover.

Thanks Dadu.. Saved me a trip to TASS and Rs. XXX and gave me a peace of mind
The CD's are brittle and tend to crack under weight. You just need to keep adding a layer of CC till you hear no squeaks.

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Originally Posted by Lukeskywalker View Post
Use a Platinum Card and you'll not hear the door complaining ever.
ha ha ha, thats a good one.
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Old 23rd August 2011, 12:34   #3671
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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Originally Posted by lodhra View Post
Hello Friends

Require your advise. It seems my niggles do not get over. I had posted a month back that after I got my 3rd service done from TASS the very next day rat chewed of the wires. I had them fixed. However before the rat chewing incident occured I noticed that early morning when I entered the car the brakes were very hard and they released as soon as i drove the car for few seconds.

Also after starting the car when I used to put it in 1st gear to lift it the first movement was as if it is going over a small rumble strip/speed breaker.

Since it was rainy season and the car was not used much maybe once in 2 days I thought it must be a normal process as my bro also owns a dezire diesel and he too said that the brake stiffness happens in rainy season sometimes

After I got my wires repaired ther was no issue but the brake pattern was still eminnet. However the brakes became normal as soon as i drove the car for say 5-10 secs

Today I started my car after 2 days to go for work and experienced the same phenomena, brakes hard, on lifting a small grind like sound as if car is going ona rumble strip and then all okay.

after I finished my work and enterd my car to return home, the ABS indicator did not go off. The car is running absolutely fine no issues.

My queries

1>I called the TASS guy and he told me that error can only be checked after attaching to a laptop. He does not have time till tuesday so he called me on tuesday
2>I have to go for some work tomorrow maximum say 20-40 kms to and fro. Can I drive my car
3>I use parking brake a lot in traffic especially when it is on slopes . Can something be related to this use
4>One more thing. I do not feel the TASS guy at my service center is especially pleased to see me. I have no issues with him but today when i called him he said come on tuesday. When I asked him can i drive the car he said why do not you get it checked from other TASS service station . Now if only a laptop can tell the reason why cant he do it himself. Also he told me to visit some other guys when i vist his TASS
5>More importantly as i read in the tata service manual, they said that the probable cause could be no supply to abd unit and then some other major causes. Coud it be possible that the TASS guys who repaired my wiring may have missed the abs connection
5>In case the ABS unit turns faulty or sensor is bust, is it covered under warranty and what expenses i am looking at

Please advice GURUS . It will be of great help

I have TATA SAFARI GX 2010 model and it has just completed 1 year on august 16. I hav extended warranty on it

REgards
Updating on this. Just visited the TASS.
The error on the computer showed up like this

"rear wheel sensor open/short"

During my last service [3rd free] they had rotated my wheels.I am a novice. so just asking if wheel rotation can cause some problems

Secondly I am not sure what the issue maybe as they said they can only tell after opening the wheels.

I will update once I get the car back. Experts any suggestions

Also would like to specifically know about the issue I had said

If the car is not used in rainy season for 1-2 days [Tata safari], is it normal for the brakes to be hard . The brakes become normal once the car is idling.

Also as I mentioned I used to get a small jerk when this happened only when lifting the car on first run just as if its going over a small rod or chain.

I asked this to the TASS guy and he said its norma in rainy season as the brakes may develop moisture if car is parked or not used for some time

Please suggest

Regards
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Old 23rd August 2011, 12:37   #3672
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Mine is a Jan - 2011 2.2 ltr EX 4x2. I have a peculiar sound/vibration coming from the steering wheel. It does not happens always. It happens only when one goes over a particular type of rough road. Example - Some of the malls/road have converted cat-eyes into speedbrakers. They are basically 4/5 rows of cat-eyes horizontally arcross. When my car goes over it I can feel the vibration/movement on the steering wheel, along with a mild rattling noise. The feeling is on the steering wheel.

I took my car to the TASS (Concorde Motors, Mysore Road). The SA told me that they will be replacing the Steering column under warranty and he has ordered the part.
My car is due for her 15K service in the next 15 days.
Experts, please help me in this regard. If any body had faced the similar issue ? If so, what was the resolution.
I am worried about the R&D approach of TASS.

Regards,
Sham's

Quote:
Originally Posted by dadu View Post
The CD's are brittle and tend to crack under weight. You just need to keep adding a layer of CC till you hear no squeaks.

ha ha ha, thats a good one.


Can you please post a picture of this (where exactly one has to place the pieces of CC) for everybody's benefit.

Regards,
Shams

Last edited by GTO : 27th August 2011 at 12:07. Reason: Please use the EDIT or MULTI-QUOTE buttons instead of typing one post after another!
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Old 23rd August 2011, 13:06   #3673
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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Originally Posted by shams_4x4 View Post
I am worried about the R&D approach of TASS.

Regards,
Sham's
Dont worry, most of the R&D is already done by the initial buyers of 2.2l(including myself).

Will post picture of the rear door padding tomorrow.
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Old 23rd August 2011, 16:01   #3674
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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Originally Posted by Lukeskywalker View Post
... how does one get the ABS checked at the TASC, what do I need to tell them?
Just tell them you suspect whether the ABS is working or not, and instead of relying on the pedal shuddering as an indication, you would like the ABS electronics checked (including the sensors) with the ABS diagnostic equipment to check if there are any recorded errors. Tell them that you have had instances where you and the passenger heard short tyre squeal on braking and no pedal shuddering was felt.
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Old 23rd August 2011, 21:52   #3675
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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Originally Posted by lodhra View Post
... If the car is not used in rainy season for 1-2 days [Tata safari], is it normal for the brakes to be hard . The brakes become normal once the car is idling...a small jerk when this happened only when lifting the car on first run ...
During rainy season or after a drive through mud/slush if you park overnight or for few days with hand brakes on chances are due to surface corrosion the drum brakes can get stuck. The first run in the morning will break open the stuck part which may cause jerk with some snapping sound- it is normal. However, it could also be due to a faulty/leaky slave cylinder inside drum, but, it is less likely for a car only one year old with low KMs on odo.

Brakes will be hard unless engine is running (no engine vacuum and booster pressure). Are you comparing the hardness of brake lever when engine is stopped vs when it is idling?

-BJ

Last edited by bj96 : 23rd August 2011 at 21:55. Reason: typo
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