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Old 5th July 2012, 09:54   #4486
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

Any idea what could have gone wrong -- yesterday when i switched the AC on in my safari there was zero cooling and also i did not hear the little thud sound which i recall used to come from the bonnet when the switch is pressed. I tried switching the car off and trying to switch the AC on, but just the blue light on the switch come on but no cooling. Another related point, this summer i felt that the cooling from the AC was way below what i recollect from past years.

I have heard stories of the AC fuse going poof, does this look similar or do i have another major investment in my ' 4WD moveable property' staring at me :(?
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Old 5th July 2012, 11:02   #4487
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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Originally Posted by xbox360 View Post
... I have heard stories of the AC fuse going poof ...
Easy to check yourself. Open the bonnet, the AC fuse (Condenser Fan fuse, actually) is in the black fuse box on the left side of the compartment - right side when you are in front - near the bonnet hinge. Open the cover, take the fuse out (location is printed on the box) and check. If it is blown (look at the center of the fuse), replace it with the same rating or slightly higher. No need to go to the Service Center also - you can get the fuse in accessory shops.

Last edited by DerAlte : 5th July 2012 at 11:03.
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Old 5th July 2012, 12:31   #4488
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
Easy to check yourself. Open the bonnet, the AC fuse (Condenser Fan fuse, actually) is in the black fuse box on the left side of the compartment - right side when you are in front - near the bonnet hinge. Open the cover, take the fuse out (location is printed on the box) and check. If it is blown (look at the center of the fuse), replace it with the same rating or slightly higher. No need to go to the Service Center also - you can get the fuse in accessory shops.
Thanks will check the same out today.
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Old 5th July 2012, 12:55   #4489
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

A new problem has come up. When at 80-90kmph in top gear, sometimes AC cuts off, and then restarts again. So there is loss of cooling for 1-2 minutes and then it starts cooling again.
Happens only at speed, not in stop and go traffic.
Ac cooling is also very effective and air blown(when compressor is on) is quite cold.
I am suspecting some issue with condenser fan.
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Old 5th July 2012, 15:01   #4490
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

Let me start the post with thanks to the members of this forum.

As I had posted earlier, I had problems with starting after driving about 1-2 kms only. There was no problem with cold start, or hot start. The problem started after alternator overhaul, fuel filter wiring change as well as heater circuit rework.

The dealer could not find any problem and tried to wash their hands off stating it was normal, but the solution suggested here was to check for possible air entry. So we got Tata Motors involved, and the dealer promptly picked up the car, provided a replacement car and checked thoroughly for 3 days. Finally it was found that the rubber casing on one side of the fuel filter wiring was not fitted properly. SO there was a microscopic gap through which air was coming in. This happened while they changed the fuel filter wiring.

Today I am getting the car back.

Thanks to this great forum again.

One question: Could it cause any kind of damage to anything?

Last edited by sumannandy : 5th July 2012 at 15:05.
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Old 5th July 2012, 16:43   #4491
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

Hi all,

Got a strange problem today, A piece broke off the secondary cooling fan. Well the secondary fan(?) turns on intermittently when we use the ac and have been driving the car for a continuous period, this fan especially turns ON after you park the car after a long drive. Well today i had gone on a long drive, A/C on, while driving I suddenly heard the noise of the secondary fan which was different from its usual hum.When I stopped and checked the car I was surprised to see a piece broken off from the fan. I have attached a picture (red outline indicates missing part) and also a self shot video of the fan when its "on" after parking my car. Please advise as to what must have caused this,what needs to be changed/checked and also is this covered under warranty?


The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread-20120705236.jpg
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Old 6th July 2012, 12:14   #4492
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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Originally Posted by richie4u View Post
... I was surprised to see a piece broken off from the fan. ...
The place you have outlined seems to be the shroud, not the fan.

* The sound seems to be from something that is striking the fan blade. Maybe if you peek inside with a mirror and a light, you should be able to see what / where / how

* If a piece of fan blade broke off, there will be some unbalance and perhaps a louder hum, not the clack-clack-clack interference sound (which will come IF the broken blade piece is the culprit hitting against the fan, and would have caused more damage as it is stiffer than the shroud piece)

IMHO if a functional part like a fan blade fails due to manufacturing defect, it should be covered under warranty.
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Old 6th July 2012, 15:05   #4493
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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Yes, indeed first wifey went with the beast to TASS and he said one word no repair in TASS direct replacement then wife gave an expression to the TASS guy and called me that whats happening, each injector 12,000 rupees ( first word from wifey was lets sell the beast).

then i read in Teambhp that some one made the injectors cleaning so opted for it. finding out my mechanic who has worked on almost all the luxury cars who was in MY TVS was one big task then gave the vehicle to him and he is working all these and keeping me informed.

now i have to wait for the final result whether they work or not, once the work is completed i will take the beast to TASS and will get the pending work done(the radiator fan is slightly scraping one of the edge) which i will get it done there.

Ok Here is the update:

Reached Bangalore on Wednesday and reached the MY TVS in Mysore road, and took the vehicle delivery yesterday the problem with the Injectors is solved(it was not done at Bosch as they quoted 1500 each one, later they said each one would cost 2500) so my mechanic opted to Lucas and they done a good job(though i dont know by seeing injectors) but i should say that now the pickup is much better and vehicle is flying.

now need to install the racechip, need experts help as i am new to this one).

so overall damage for the pocket was 8K injectors cleaning & 2k for removing and fitting and some electrical issues which were solved.
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Old 7th July 2012, 09:24   #4494
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

The rear most door is leaking water as hell. There are streams of water coming inside from top of the door under heavy rains, Please anyone suggest a solution or what the problem actually is?
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Old 7th July 2012, 10:22   #4495
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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The rear most door is leaking water as hell. ...
The door would have lost alignment, or the seal edge has gone in. The Service Center should be able to set it right - they usually check with a water jet (pressure wash one) and just hammer the seal edge out with a mallet.

This should have been caught in your regular washing (washing, not wet cloth wiping) too, perhaps you never checked.
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Old 10th July 2012, 13:33   #4496
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
Hi Param, please call me on 09884427713. I will give you a contact to call in Borg Warner who makes the Transfer case for the Safari. He maybe of help. I cannot PM you and I don't want to post that person's mobile number on the forum hence this post.
Hi Tini

Thank you so much for your help. You put me on the right track by putting me in touch with the right person. With his support I've been working on fixing the 4x4 system for more than a month now and finally managed to fix it on Sunday.

Again, I can't thank you enough for your help .

Cheers!

PS: I'll be putting up details regarding the fix soon.
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Old 11th July 2012, 02:18   #4497
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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Hey Fellow Mortals

Facing an issue with the 4wd on my Safari and would appreciate help in troubleshooting the same. The 4H & 4L lights remain on while the vehicle is running. I believe this indicates an electrical malfunction in the 4wd system. Got it check at TASS and they said that it is a problem with the motor which had to be replaced. Estimate 15k. Also, I was told that the motor would have to be ordered and would take a month or so to arrive. I decided to get the problem checked outside TASS.

Found a competent electrical technician. He checked the motor and found it to be working fine. Then he checked the 4wd ECM and found that to be working fine as well. Since the motor and ECM have been checked to be working fine separately there seems to be a problem with relay between the two somewhere. Can anyone help with further troubleshooting ideas?

Thanks for your help in advance!
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Originally Posted by param22k View Post
Hi guys, thanks for the advice!

The 4wd is not engaging and the hubs are not locking (can't hear them engaging). Checked the 4wd dashboard switch as well and that seems to be fine. Any further ideas?
Quote:
Originally Posted by param22k View Post
Hi Guys

Got the 4wd checked again at TASS. They've diagnosed it as a problem with sensor attached to the motor. They say that though the motor is fine, it has to be changed as the sensor comes with the motor only. Any advise on this?
Hey Guys

Here are the details on how I managed to fix the problem with the 4x4 system on my truck.

It all started with Tini giving me contact information of Gajanan Chitale who works with Divgi Warner (they supply the 4x4 system installed in Safari). Thank you so much for the same again, Tini! I called Gajanan and explained to him the problem I was facing and also what TASS had diagnosed the cause to be. I was pleasantly surprised by his patience, politeness and willingness to help me with my problem (I can't thank Gajanan enough for all his help and support!). He told me to go to the TASS, call him from there and put the service engineer on the phone with him. I went down to TASS and after a lot of requests managed to get the service engineer to talk to Gajanan. He catagorically told Gajanan that the problem was with the shift motor, specifically some broken sensor inside the shift motor which wasn't allowing it to work even though the motor was fine. When Gajanan asked him if he had run the recommended diagnostics to pin point the problem the service engineer said they had a computer program which had diagnosed the problem. Gajanan then told me that there was no such computer program to diagnose problems with the 4x4 system and due to reluctance of the service engineer to listen to him he advised me to run the diagnostics myself.

Gajanan sent me the details by email and I ran the diagnostic which was basically a bulb test on the ECM that gave out the error in binary code. This diagnosed the problem to be with a component called 'Speed Sensor Assembly' and not with the shift motor. This was reaffirmed by getting under the truck and checking the said component with a multi-meter which showed there was no continuity in the component circuit. Gajanan gave me the product code using which I ordered replacement from TASS (Cost Rs 3,060). Incensed at the unprofessional functioning of TASS I decided to replace the component myself and with the help of Gajanan's instructions got under the truck and replaced it. Hoping the problem was solved I turned on ignition and now instead of the continuous 4H & 4L lights I had earlier, now only the 4H light was continuously blinking. I tried to move the truck back and forth and tried switching to 4H and 4L modes. After about 10 minutes got both 4H & 4L lights glowing continuously again. Ran diagnostics on ECM and got error of 'Shift Motor'. Turned the ignition off and back on, and I had the same 4H light continuously blinking. This was puzzling as obviously if there was a problem with the shift motor it should have shown up in the first diagnostic along with the speed sensor error. Gajanan then asked me to wait for a few days till he consulted with his technical team and figured out a solution for me. He even offered to send me a shift motor on returnable basis to check whether that solved the problem before ordering a new one if eventually nothing else worked. That was really nice of him!

While waiting for Gajanan to get back to me I decided to search the internet for information on 4x4 shift motors in general and Borg Warner ones in particular. While searching on the internet I came across an american forum Ford Explorer and Ranger Enthusiast Forums - Serious Explorations and on it a topic on rebuilding Ford Ranger shift motor (Link: 4X4 Shift Motor Rebuild - Ford Explorer Ranger Enthusiasts "Serious Explorations"). Since the 4x4 system on the Ford Ranger is also from Borg Warner and seemed physically similar to the one on the Safari I decided to study the topic further. There I found out that if the gear/motor position switch assembly next to the motor is not assembled correctly then the ECM is unable to sense actual position of transfer case lever, gets confused and keeps flashing the 4x4 light(s).

I figured that when TASS opened the shift motor to check it they might have messed up positioning of gear and gear case cover (which doubles up as gear/motor position sensor as well) because they kept telling me that the shift motor was fine and the problem was with a sensor inside the shift motor. I carefully studied the matter given on the topic for a week and finally gathered enough courage to open up the motor position switch assembly last Sunday.

First I removed the entire motor and position switch, and tried to reassemble the gear/switch assembly in my room. This didn't work as I couldn't get position of gear and case cover right (like TASS!). So late in the evening I decided to try and first fix the shift motor and gear case body on the transfer case and then carefully reassemble the gear and gear case cover right onto the transfer case. It was a little difficult to do all this while being under the truck (it was already dark & temperature here is more than 45 Celsius these days!) but I managed to get it right eventually and when my friend turned on the ignition I heard the gear inside the motor position switch move into position. Got into the truck and checked by switching to 4H and 4L, and it was working flawlessly. Awesome!

I must again mention that I can't thank Gajanan enough for all his selfless help and support. Without his diagnostic instructions I would never have been able to figure out the problem with the Speed Sensor (TASS guys showed little interest in running the proper diagnostics) and his motivation made me get under my truck for the first time to try and figure out the problems myself. Three cheers to Gajanan, hip hip hooray, hip hip hooray, hip hip hooray!

Also, my gratitude again to Tini for putting me in touch with Gajanan.

On the completely opposite side of gratitude, I can't find words to express my disgust for the unprofessional-ism of TASS and the amazingly bad job Tata Motors is doing of providing support for a vehicle that costs nearly 13 Lacs . Thanks to Gajanan and explorerforum I now probably know more about Safari's 4x4 system than the TASS guys. If TASS had not opened the shift motor and messed up positioning of the gear and gear case cover then the simple change of Speed Sensor would've fixed the 4x4 system. And without Gajanan's help I would've ended up with TASS changing the perfectly good shift motor (which anyways wouldn't have fixed the 4x4 without changing the Speed Sensor) and wasting more than 15k .

Please note that the shift motor discussed on explorerforum seems to be an older version of the shift motor on the Safari as some of the issues discussed there have been fixed with design changes in the current motor (like fragility of plastic bush, markings to match position of gear case cover with the body), however the basic functioning and components are similar.

I hope the above helps somebody else with their 4x4 problems. And please let me know if I help with any further explanation.

Cheers and TeamBHP rocks!

Last edited by GTO : 14th July 2012 at 16:04. Reason: Please do NOT use more than 2 smilies per post
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Old 11th July 2012, 09:52   #4498
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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I'll be putting up details regarding the fix soon.
HI Param, I am glad you got your problem resolved. It is not just a problem with TASS but Mahindra service is no better either when it comes to 4x4 systems. But unfortunately, there are no other choices for 4x4 vehicles with low range Transfer case in the 12 lakh budget. I now feel that I that I should have stretched my budget and bought a used Pajero rather than a new Scorpio 4x4.

If not for helpful people like Mr. Gajanan, we Scorpio/Safari 4x4 owners would be left to hand dry by Mahindra and Tata
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Old 11th July 2012, 16:14   #4499
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
HI Param, I am glad you got your problem resolved. It is not just a problem with TASS but Mahindra service is no better either when it comes to 4x4 systems. But unfortunately, there are no other choices for 4x4 vehicles with low range Transfer case in the 12 lakh budget. I now feel that I that I should have stretched my budget and bought a used Pajero rather than a new Scorpio 4x4.

If not for helpful people like Mr. Gajanan, we Scorpio/Safari 4x4 owners would be left to hand dry by Mahindra and Tata
Thanks Tini.

It is quite true that Mahindra and Tata are equally bad in terms of after sales service. And it is not just the 4x4 systems, their overall level of service (or lack of it!) is terrible. They seriously need to prioritize service level improvement rather than new product development.

I can't agree more on how helpful Gajanan has been to us. Tata/Mahindra should be ashamed that their vendor is better at customer relationship than their own team!
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Old 13th July 2012, 12:28   #4500
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

A couple of 1000kms ago, I had gotten new clutch. As you know it had gotten hard, and I was also losing clutch fluid.
So the vehicle is at workshop. They opened up the clutch, and found no fluid inside, however, they do not have an idea where the fluid is going and why is clutch so hard.
They suspect internal leakage in the cylinder.
So extended warranty claims have been put for master slave cylinders.
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