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Old 8th August 2012, 17:57   #4591
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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Originally Posted by ijeet View Post
Hi Guys,

Another issue is To me vehicle looks a bit low on right side( if look from back side) but as per SA they have measured with scale and its good. Is there any other scientfic way to measure this?

-ijeet
Use a Spirit Level, at the center of the bonnet after parking the car on a level surface.
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Old 8th August 2012, 20:40   #4592
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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Originally Posted by ankur_gupta10 View Post
The water in cabin is a common problem, happens because of dust clogging the drain pipes. Because of humidity, the problem might have compounded. Try going on a workday. Make them open a job card, and then say you will collect the vehicle once that is done.. Take appointment before going. Autolinks is the best you have for safari in NCR. Rest all are even more naive.
Well i'm sorry that i did not explain the issue completely. It's not only the water that is dripping into the compartment but also the AC which stops functioning the moment i drive continiously for 30 minutes or more and then i've to turn it off for 10 minutes and then start the process again. It's really turning out to be a big issue as last week i drove from DL-Jaipur-DL-CH-GGN-DL in 2.5 days and got sick countering this problem.

Also i went to the VK Autolink and not the GGN one but i got to know that the GGN one is good and that too from the Guard @ VK Autolinks.

Shouted at the VK autolink guys today and have taken a appointment for saturday..They better be prepared to face my wrath this weekend.

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Originally Posted by v&v View Post
Hairsh next time when you visit PM me I will introduce to you PRO. VK autolink has been decently maintaining my beast. I am happy with them.
Hey V& V i'm going there on sat , please let me know whom should i contact there to get this work done effectively.
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Old 9th August 2012, 00:23   #4593
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Default Re: Death wobble

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Originally Posted by amit_mechengg View Post
Actually Rack and Pinion is an older mechanism and Recirculating Ball Type is more advanced and complex + costly system.

I 100% agree that Rack and Pinion gives more feedback than RBT steering system.
.
Does Rack & Pinion system allow for tighter turns as compared to RBT ? Tighter packaging ?

IIRC, in olden days, Fiats used to come with Rack&pinion vs the ambys which used to have RBT.
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Old 9th August 2012, 10:38   #4594
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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Originally Posted by harishnayak View Post
Well i'm sorry that i did not explain the issue completely. It's not only the water that is dripping into the compartment but also the AC which stops functioning the moment i drive continiously for 30 minutes or more and then i've to turn it off for 10 minutes and then start the process again. It's really turning out to be a big issue as last week i drove from DL-Jaipur-DL-CH-GGN-DL in 2.5 days and got sick countering this problem.
Sounds like your condenser fan is not working, and thus A/c heating up and shutting down. Might be a fuse.
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Old 9th August 2012, 13:18   #4595
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Default Re: Death wobble

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Originally Posted by smsrini View Post
Does Rack & Pinion system allow for tighter turns as compared to RBT ? Tighter packaging ?

IIRC, in olden days, Fiats used to come with Rack&pinion vs the ambys which used to have RBT.
Not really, Turning radius = (Track/2) +(wheelbase/ Sin (steer angle)

You can calculate it as per the calculator here
How to Calculate a Turning Circle | eHow.com

RBT has a steering box coupled to pitman arms, which is space saving.

Rack and Pinion has bigger racks below the engine and consume more space.

The biggest disadvantage of RBT is the dead spot/ slack in centre. No wonder safari turns a second after you rotate the steering wheel.

Variable rack and pinion has almost zero lag and gives perfect feedback.

Hydraulic assisted Rack and Pinion gives best feedback and Electronic Assisted are very light and with dull feedback.
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Old 9th August 2012, 19:32   #4596
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Default Re: It's Back!

Hi all,

I feel some vibration/resonance kind of feeling somewhere between the driver seat and the middle passenger area on the right side when I touch 2-2500RPM. I get the feeling even when I rev the vehicle in neutral so is there something that I can checked out cause tomorrow my car is going for a service. I dont think its a problem but its just irritates me so I'd like to get an opinoin on what should be checked out.


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Originally Posted by mercedised View Post
The same thing was happening with me, but the central locking was also misbehaving, I got the immobiliser connector cleaned and the problem disappeared. Get the connector tightened.
hey mercedised, Thanks a lot for solving this problem cause if you had not suggested this, the TASS over here would have replaced everything from the starter to the battery
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Old 10th August 2012, 11:50   #4597
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Default Re: It's Back!

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Originally Posted by richie4u View Post
hey mercedised, Thanks a lot for solving this problem cause if you had not suggested this, the TASS over here would have replaced everything from the starter to the battery
So, the problem was with the connector, I don;t know but somehow the immobilizer connector is not safeguarded or hidden beneath the seat from the company itself, thus the passengers sitting behind the drivers seat might just give hell lot of kicks to that connector during they stretch legs for relaxing.

Have you checked if the problem did'nt reappear, since i got the connector tightened the problem has'nt came back in my car. Someone here on this thread only advised me to do the same. Team-bhp Rocks!
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Old 10th August 2012, 12:57   #4598
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Default Re: Death wobble

Quote:
Originally Posted by amit_mechengg View Post

RBT has a steering box coupled to pitman arms, which is space saving.

Rack and Pinion has bigger racks below the engine and consume more space.

The biggest disadvantage of RBT is the dead spot/ slack in centre. No wonder safari turns a second after you rotate the steering wheel.

Variable rack and pinion has almost zero lag and gives perfect feedback.

Hydraulic assisted Rack and Pinion gives best feedback and Electronic Assisted are very light and with dull feedback.
Thanks Amit, To help people understand your explanation better, I take the liberty to post some images on RBT and Rack Pinion set-up. Hope it helps understand the mechanisms better.

The following has a good list with nice explanation and interesting engineering drawings of most of the steering types:

Steering Components (Automobile)

A old toyota worm roller steerting video:



RBT Explained:

http://www.kfz-tech.de/Engl/Kugelumlauf-Lenkung

In a spindle at the end of the steering shaft, a thread-like channel has been milled to accommodate the ball-bearings. Through these ball-bearings it is connected with a (spindle-) nut. When steering, their cogs move the drop arm through a steering segment, causing a pivoting movement. Other connecting elements then transfer this movement to the tie rod/s. When they have reached the end of their respective channel, the ball-bearings are transported through curved tubing, to the beginning again. The gear ratio can be finely adjusted through the configuration of the ball-bearing channels and through the gear-tooth pitch between the steering nut and gear-tooth segment. The third figure above shows the hydraulic support. In this case, the spindle divides the interior of the recirculating-ball steering into two areas. Presuming a good sealing of the movable parts, pressure can now be applied, depending on the steering movement, to one side while at the same time, relieving the other side.

Quote:
Rack and pinion, recirculating ball, worm and sector


Rack and pinion steering mechanism: 1 Steering wheel; 2 Steering column; 3 Rack and pinion; 4 Tie rod; 5 Kingpin.

Rack and pinion unit mounted in the cockpit of an Ariel Atom sports car chassis. For most high volume production, this is usually mounted on the other side of this panel

Many modern cars use rack and pinion steering mechanisms, where the steering wheel turns the pinion gear; the pinion moves the rack, which is a linear gear that meshes with the pinion, converting circular motion into linear motion along the transverse axis of the car (side to side motion). This motion applies steering torque to the swivel pin ball joints that replaced previously used kingpins of the stub axle of the steered wheels via tie rods and a short lever arm called the steering arm.
The rack and pinion design has the advantages of a large degree of feedback and direct steering "feel". A disadvantage is that it is not adjustable, so that when it does wear and develop lash, the only cure is replacement.
Older designs often use the recirculating ball mechanism, which is still found on trucks and utility vehicles. This is a variation on the older worm and sector design; the steering column turns a large screw (the "worm gear") which meshes with a sector of a gear, causing it to rotate about its axis as the worm gear is turned; an arm attached to the axis of the sector moves the Pitman arm, which is connected to the steering linkage and thus steers the wheels. The recirculating ball version of this apparatus reduces the considerable friction by placing large ball bearings between the teeth of the worm and those of the screw; at either end of the apparatus the balls exit from between the two pieces into a channel internal to the box which connects them with the other end of the apparatus, thus they are "recirculated".

The worm and sector was an older design, used for example in Willys and Chrysler vehicles, and the Ford Falcon (1960s).[1]
Other systems for steering exist, but are uncommon on road vehicles. Children's toys and go-karts often use a very direct linkage in the form of a bellcrank (also commonly known as a Pitman arm) attached directly between the steering column and the steering arms, and the use of cable-operated steering linkages (e.g. the Capstan and Bowstring mechanism) is also found on some home-built vehicles such as soapbox cars and recumbent tricycles.
Steering - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Last edited by AlphaKilo : 10th August 2012 at 13:04. Reason: Edited large images and text
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Old 12th August 2012, 13:11   #4599
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

The radiator fans (2 of them in 3.0L Safari) are not stopping, the check engine light is also ON. The fans start when the car is started (remember the engine temperature is cool) and they switch off only when the car is switched off. What might be the problem?
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Old 12th August 2012, 20:01   #4600
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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Originally Posted by mercedised View Post
The radiator fans (2 of them in 3.0L Safari) are not stopping, the check engine light is also ON. ...
Most likely temperature sensor is open or it's connector is disturbed. The ECU is not taking a chance and is keeping the fans on. Rare, but possible, is the relay is closed (fused contacts), and is not opening.

I wish the Delphi guys had used flash codes with the Engine Check light.
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Old 12th August 2012, 20:49   #4601
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
Most likely temperature sensor is open or it's connector is disturbed. The ECU is not taking a chance and is keeping the fans on. Rare, but possible, is the relay is closed (fused contacts), and is not opening.

I wish the Delphi guys had used flash codes with the Engine Check light.
Thanks for the reply, I checked the relay when this problem appeared, I removed and reinserted them (when the key was switched-off), but they made no difference, but it might be the problem of relays or I would get the temperature sensor checked. Its raining heavily and going to SC just make me go mad.
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Old 12th August 2012, 21:37   #4602
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

Urgent Help: While purchasing my Safari, I had opted for Silver AMC from Tata Motors. Yesterday I had given my car for 30000 service at KHT Motors.

While taking delivery it was told to me that AMC is valid for 2 Years or 20000 KMs whichever is earlier as per their system. When purchased showroom guy told me it is valid for 2 years or 30000 Kms whichever is earlier. This time I had to pay for engine oil, filters etc during this service including alignment.

Please confirm if any of you holding SILVER AMC and its terms and condition. Irony is no KMs is mentioned in AMC booklet deliberately by showroom guys which I also forgot to see.

If I get positive response here, I will then discuss with Tata Motors.
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Old 12th August 2012, 22:19   #4603
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by anujmishra
Urgent Help: While purchasing my Safari, I had opted for Silver AMC from Tata Motors. Yesterday I had given my car for 30000 service at KHT Motors.

While taking delivery it was told to me that AMC is valid for 2 Years or 20000 KMs whichever is earlier as per their system. When purchased showroom guy told me it is valid for 2 years or 30000 Kms whichever is earlier. This time I had to pay for engine oil, filters etc during this service including alignment.

Please confirm if any of you holding SILVER AMC and its terms and condition. Irony is no KMs is mentioned in AMC booklet deliberately by showroom guys which I also forgot to see.

If I get positive response here, I will then discuss with Tata Motors.
Anuj, I think the Gold AMC is for 3 years or 30,000 Kms , Silver is 2 years or 20,000kms whichever is earlier, but please do re check.
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Old 13th August 2012, 16:45   #4604
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
Most likely temperature sensor is open or it's connector is disturbed. The ECU is not taking a chance and is keeping the fans on. Rare, but possible, is the relay is closed (fused contacts), and is not opening.

I wish the Delphi guys had used flash codes with the Engine Check light.
Thanks to your suggestion, I went to my local electrician today, and he just changed the "Temperature T" both the fans stopped and the check engine light is gone now. The "Temperature T" used was second hand and the mechanic took 200 Rs for it and 150 Rs labour.
Although, I could'nt check if the fans start working when the temperature reaches half mark, thanks to the rainy season the temperature needle refused to climb above 1/4th whatever I tried.

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Originally Posted by Lukeskywalker View Post
Anuj, I think the Gold AMC is for 3 years or 30,000 Kms , Silver is 2 years or 20,000kms whichever is earlier, but please do re check.
Is this AMC effective after the warranty expires? or It is effective from the time of purchase? What are the terms can you redirect me to the link, I googled but could'nt find.
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Old 13th August 2012, 17:59   #4605
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

I just got a clarification that the AMC can be purchased on a new car if and only if the car is covered under Extended Warranty.

Last edited by Lukeskywalker : 13th August 2012 at 18:11.
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