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Old 28th October 2013, 11:39   #5401
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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Originally Posted by smsrini View Post
Black smoke on hard acceleration is normal, and indicates presence of unburnt fuel.
LOL wouldn't that be "burnt fuel that did not do any work"?
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Old 28th October 2013, 11:55   #5402
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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Originally Posted by ameaa View Post
Is there a way to measure turbo output pressure with respect to certain RPM?
Black smoke upon hard acceleration could mean a lot of things, however, since you say that there is no power loss, your turbo could be working fine. The only way to check it is by putting the vehicle on a dynamo-meter however, an experienced driver can make out its functioning by driving the vehicle too.

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Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
LOL wouldn't that be "burnt fuel that did not do any work"?
Correct.

It could be incomplete combustion, or incomplete scavenging.
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Old 28th October 2013, 12:05   #5403
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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Originally Posted by n.devdath View Post
... It could be incomplete combustion, or incomplete scavenging.
Incomplete combustion. Scavenging works only on gases and vapors.

Soot particles are not held back, though some of it is deposited in the piping till one guns the engine, only to come out later when one guns the engine. THAT is "black" smoke.

Last edited by DerAlte : 28th October 2013 at 12:07.
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Old 28th October 2013, 12:07   #5404
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
Incomplete combustion. Scavenging works only on gases and vapors.
Yup, and since the exhaust gas is a gas, the principles of scavenging apply here as well.

For example, a faulty EGR could result in black smoke.
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Old 28th October 2013, 12:16   #5405
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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Originally Posted by n.devdath View Post
Yup, and since the exhaust gas is a gas, the principles of scavenging apply here as well. ...
'Black' smoke contains suspended (solid) particles of soot - which are not 'gas'! Scavenging (catcon) is chemical action on the gas / vapors - doesn't work on soot.
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Old 28th October 2013, 12:50   #5406
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
'Black' smoke contains suspended (solid) particles of soot - which are not 'gas'! Scavenging (catcon) is chemical action on the gas / vapors - doesn't work on soot.
So is scavenging limited to the catcon only?

We are going OT on this thread. Let us disuss this elsewhere or on one-to-one PMs.
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Old 28th October 2013, 17:27   #5407
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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Originally Posted by sandeepc83 View Post

(c) Clutch is slowly getting harder...
I have an extended warranty.Should I worry about my clutch yet?Please advise, fellow BHPians...

Thanks
Sandeep
I am going through identical issue with my Safari 2010. However it has clocked 48K. Clutch is a bit harder now. Got is checked with concord Pune. Estimated cost for complete repalcement Clutch + Pressure plate is 18K plus labour + local applicabe taxes. Will touch around 21K/-.

I have left as it is as I do not find any issues with performance, however will get it checked regularly to prevent it from getting worse.

It will not be covered under warranty as it ocured after 30K KM's (in your case), you will have to pay for it eventually; within or outside warranty. its your call to get it fixed now or later.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ameaa View Post
..Is clutch covered under warranty at 45K?..

Unfortunatley clutch is not covered under ANY warranty.
Explaination Given for this: Driving habits (Ex: Riding the clutch) can lead to worn out clutch, hence company will not entertain any claims, unless proved as manufacturing defect.

Experts please correct me if required.

Last edited by saurabh2711 : 28th October 2013 at 17:31.
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Old 28th October 2013, 18:52   #5408
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saurabh2711 View Post

I am going through identical issue with my Safari 2010. However it has clocked 48K. Clutch is a bit harder now. Got is checked with concord Pune. Estimated cost for complete repalcement Clutch + Pressure plate is 18K plus labour + local applicabe taxes. Will touch around 21K/-.

I have left as it is as I do not find any issues with performance, however will get it checked regularly to prevent it from getting worse.

It will not be covered under warranty as it ocured after 30K KM's (in your case), you will have to pay for it eventually; within or outside warranty. its your call to get it fixed now or later.

Unfortunatley clutch is not covered under ANY warranty.
Explaination Given for this: Driving habits (Ex: Riding the clutch) can lead to worn out clutch, hence company will not entertain any claims, unless proved as manufacturing defect.

Experts please correct me if required.
I spoke to Mr.Ramesan of Jkrs auto care in goa.he also gave me a similar response that unless it is premature failure they will not consider changing it under warranty. but tata customer care website says it is covered in extended warranty.and I guess clutch issues at 30k kms is a case of premature failure although it can be argued that mine has not failed yet.he said he would check with the tata chaps and get back to me about this.fingers crossed.
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Old 28th October 2013, 21:22   #5409
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

I spoke to Mr.Ramesan of Jkrs auto care in goa. He told that he would check with tata regarding the replcement of clutch and if he could do it in warranty. He also mentioned that only premature failure is covered under warranty. But I think 30K kms for clutch is definitely premature. Not that mine has failed yet. But the symptoms of failure seem to be slowly developing. Im keeping my fingers crossed now. If I choose to ignore it now im sure I will have to change the whole clutch assembly at 45k service at my own cost. And as of now, tata may conveniently say that it has not yet failed.
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Old 29th October 2013, 10:59   #5410
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandeepc83 View Post
I spoke to Mr.Ramesan of Jkrs auto care in goa. He told that he would check with tata regarding the replcement of clutch and if he could do it in warranty. He also mentioned that only premature failure is covered under warranty. But I think 30K kms for clutch is definitely premature. Not that mine has failed yet. But the symptoms of failure seem to be slowly developing. Im keeping my fingers crossed now. If I choose to ignore it now im sure I will have to change the whole clutch assembly at 45k service at my own cost. And as of now, tata may conveniently say that it has not yet failed.
I still haven't understood the relation between a hard clutch and a failure. For me failure is clutch slippage or difficulty in engaging gears with engine running. You can surely change the MC and SC under warranty which should solve your problem for another 45K by then it will be time for plate change.
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Old 5th November 2013, 15:07   #5411
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Question re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

Hi Everybody.

I'm having two issues with my 2013 Dicor:

1. On idle the RPM has fluctuating between 600-1000 rpm. The PUC guys have started giving me problems regarding this also. A similar thing had happened about two months ago where the RPM would suddenly shoot up very high and would reduce only when I pressed the brake. This started happening when the sedimenter light started glowing and stopped after I changed the sedimenter as it had got spoilt.

2. The steering and gearshift start shaking wildly when I accelerate on a flyover and am around 70-80 kmph especially if the flyover is a curve. The flyovers where this happens have small gaps on the road to account for contraction/expansion.

Request your insights on these.
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Old 6th November 2013, 11:56   #5412
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

Asking again, could anybody tell me why check engine light shows up when the car is taken above 2.3K. The error code is "Barometric sensor level : HIGH Error Code: P010". When this happens the power drops and the car struggles to get past 2K rpm in 5th gear, in all other gears it happily crosses that rpm.
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Old 6th November 2013, 13:51   #5413
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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Originally Posted by mercedised View Post
Asking again, could anybody tell me why check engine light shows up when the car is taken above 2.3K. The error code is "Barometric sensor level : HIGH Error Code: P010". .
Your error code seems to be incomplete it should be P0108 for HIGH BAROMETRIC readings.
P01XX refers to Fuel & Air error Meterings.

EX:
P0105 Manifold Absolute Pressure/Barometric Pressure Circuit Malfunction
P0106 Manifold Absolute Pressure/Barometric Pressure Circuit Range/Performance Problem
P0107 Manifold Absolute Pressure/Barometric Pressure Circuit Low Input
P0108 Manifold Absolute Pressure/Barometric Pressure Circuit High Input
P0109 Manifold Absolute Pressure/Barometric Pressure Circuit Intermittent


Please refer to
http://www.dmv.de.gov/services/Vehic...s/dtc_list.pdf Should help a bit
or
http://www.obd-codes.com/p0108 Should help a lot

**(below is Copied from above links)
Potential causes of a P0108 code:
  • Worn engine causing low vacuum
  • open in ground circuit to MAP
  • short on engine wire to PCM
  • Engine Vaccuum leak
  • Bad MAP sensor etc etc..
Possible Solution
good way to diagnose if the MAP sensor is to blame would be to compare the KOEO (key on engine off) MAP sensor reading on a scan tool with the Barometric pressure reading. They should be the same because they both measure atmospheric pressure
If the MAP reading is greater than 0.5 volt off of the BARO reading, then replacing the MAP sensor would likely fix the problem. Otherwise, start the engine and observe the MAP reading at idle. It should normally be about 1.5 volts (varies according to altitude
a. If it is, the problem is likely intermittent. Check all the vacuum hoses for damage and replace as necessary. You can also try wiggle testing the harness and connector to reproduce the problem
b. If the scan tool MAP reading is more than 4.5 volts, check the actual engine vacuum reading with the engine running. If it is less than 15 or 16 in. Hg, then the PCM is probably not seeing enough vacuum (due to a worn engine, perhaps) for a given operating condition (which causes a higher than normal voltage signal to the PCM) and setting the code.Repair the engine vacuum problem and retest.
c. But, if the actual engine vacuum reading is 16 in. Hg or more, then unplug the MAP sensor. The scan tool MAP reading should indicate that there is no voltage present. Check that the ground from the PCM is intact and also that the MAP sensor connector and terminals are tight. If the connection is good, then replace the map sensor
d. However if, with KOEO, & the MAP sensor unplugged, the scan tool shows a voltage reading, then there may be a short in the harness to the MAP sensor. Turn the ignition off. At the PCM unplug connector and remove the MAP signal wire from the connector. Re-attach the PCM connector and see if with KOEO, the scan tool MAP reading shows voltage. If it still does, replace the PCM. If not, check for voltage on the signal wire you just removed from the PCM. If there is voltage on the signal wire, find the short in the harness and repair.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sidcruise79 View Post

2. The steering and gearshift start shaking wildly
Can be wheel balancing (Steering shaking). But this should not be limited to accelerating on flyover, these vibrations should be visible all around the road if wheel balancing is not proper. CHeck tyres for any worn out areas??

if this is limited only to a particular flyover: Who knows, road is not good and is shaped that way.

Last edited by saurabh2711 : 6th November 2013 at 14:19.
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Old 9th November 2013, 17:41   #5414
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

Hi Guys!

Front captain seat armrest in my truck's broken. A friend's kid pulled it back hard and broke whatever is supposed to stop it in position while rotating. Now the armrest rotates all the way down front and back. The armrests are factory fitted leather (VX model). Any suggestions on how this can be fixed?
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Old 9th November 2013, 18:06   #5415
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Default Re: 4x4 malfunction

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Originally Posted by sgmitr13 View Post
This little fellow is the "speed sensor" and costed Rs.3060.
Labor to detect and replace Rs.1034. All costs includes taxes.

If anyone is pondering .. no none in that spins, its one single solid piece.

With a single digit margin and tough competition in the auto sector, companies make money from such spare parts sale.
Hi Sgmitr

Glad your problem was solved without any issues. I had a problem with this sensor on my truck as well. Caused me weeks of sweating. Check my post for details.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...2k#post2835933

I agree the transfer case parts are expensive. These parts are proprietary products of BorgWarner and no substitutes are available, therefore the high price. I'm so glad that I only had to replace the 'speed sensor' as the transfer motor or ECU cost nearly ten times more!
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