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Old 18th March 2014, 00:43   #5521
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

Need help
While climbing a steep climb, I saw the safari overheating. Temp had gone midway between half and red. Normally its a notch above half.

Fans came on full blast, and then shut down and service light blinked.

Now, coolant temp went to 101 degree C
In safari above 97 fans should keep roaring, and max temp you get is 99-100 degree C even when doing steep climbs in first gear.

On checking system with diagnostic OBD II, I got these errors
P0115 - I know this is overheating
P0119 - This one I am curious about.

The fans should have come on since temp was above 97 degree C. I gave a tug to the wires, and after that, the fans are working normally. Even climbing jalori pass (4WD Low 2nd gear 2500rpm continuous), temp was hovering between 97-98-99 going up and down as the fans cooled down the system.

Now I am wondering
1. P0119 - Where is this sensor located. Whats the part number?
2. Is it possible to also provide a bypass switch?

If I have a sensor failure, I can switch on some switch and have the fans always on at full speed. The reason I am asking is that I have had a sensor failure early in life which lead to vehicle overheating.

Last but not the least, the vehicle has done about 105000kms+ now. I got radiator flushed around 60K kms. Is there a thermostat valve which may have gotten stuck at winter position? I remember this used to happen in the indica.

What all things for the cooling system are recommended now?
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Old 18th March 2014, 10:01   #5522
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
P0115 - I know this is overheating
P0119 - This one I am curious about.
Now I am wondering
1. P0119 - Where is this sensor located. Whats the part number?
Aren't P0115 & P0119 both generated together, indicating 'engine coolant circuit malfunction', and aren't both fault codes generated by the ECT (engine coolant temperature) sensor itself?

Once the fans started and the temperature came down, did your check engine light (CEL) turn off by itself, or did you have to clear the codes?

I'd suspect that you'll need to do nothing more than change over to heavy-duty connectors for the fans (too much running of fans during your mountain trips, and overworked Tata-quality connectors do tend to burn out!). There's nothing like a 'winter position' for the thermostat valve - it'll either open or close. If stuck in closed position, you'd get overheating in normal city/plains driving, no need for steep climbs.

Last edited by SS-Traveller : 18th March 2014 at 10:03.
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Old 18th March 2014, 10:40   #5523
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
Aren't P0115 & P0119 both generated together, indicating 'engine coolant circuit malfunction', and aren't both fault codes generated by the ECT (engine coolant temperature) sensor itself?

Once the fans started and the temperature came down, did your check engine light (CEL) turn off by itself, or did you have to clear the codes?

I'd suspect that you'll need to do nothing more than change over to heavy-duty connectors for the fans (too much running of fans during your mountain trips, and overworked Tata-quality connectors do tend to burn out!). There's nothing like a 'winter position' for the thermostat valve - it'll either open or close. If stuck in closed position, you'd get overheating in normal city/plains driving, no need for steep climbs.
AFAIK, the Safari has two temperature sensors. I had one of them fail once. Was changed under warranty when the vehicle was pretty new.
I guess I will need to get the fans checked too. They make quite a bit of noise too.

I checked for oil in coolant and water in oil. Nothing there. So as such on the mechanical side things are fine.

I am suspecting sensors because the fans came on in low speed mode, but were not switching to high speed mode even when temp started rising up.

If there was some kind of bypass switch I would have permanently switched on the fans during steep climb.

That said, I am unable to find out the max temp permissible in heavy duty use. I thought it was 98 degree C, but it appears 100 degree C max is permitted without any warning lights.
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Old 18th March 2014, 19:57   #5524
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
AFAIK, the Safari has two temperature sensors.
One would be the ECT sensor, the other might be the sensor/sender unit for the temperature gauge.
Quote:
I guess I will need to get the fans checked too. They make quite a bit of noise too.
Bearing noise? Do they spin freely when turned by hand with the engine off?
Quote:
I checked for oil in coolant and water in oil. Nothing there. So as such on the mechanical side things are fine.
Good news!
Quote:
...the fans came on in low speed mode, but were not switching to high speed mode even when temp started rising up.
Resistance at the contact couplings?
Quote:
If there was some kind of bypass switch I would have permanently switched on the fans during steep climb.
Why a 'jugaad' if things worked fine for so long?
Quote:
...the max temp permissible in heavy duty use. I thought it was 98 degree C, but it appears 100 degree C max is permitted without any warning lights.
Most engines are designed to run in the 90-95*C range. Coolant boils at ~110*C when not pressurized, and ~115*-120*C in a pressurized system. So the warning triggers are set at <110*C IMO - an engine designer would be in a better position to confirm.
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Old 19th March 2014, 20:42   #5525
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

Recent niggle- cigarette lighter socket (front panel) is blowing the 10A fuse when I wriggle in a mobile charger or GPS charger. Happened twice. I can also see some dark (burnt) spots inside the socket.

Anyone knows if I can DIY replace the socket? I tried for an hour (removed stereo, front wooden trim etc) but, the socket is not coming out. Something from behind is holding it back. Can't see or feel what it is.

Don't want to go to TASS, I am sure they will break something else in the process :-(.

Pls help!

Thanks,
-BJ

Last edited by bj96 : 19th March 2014 at 20:43. Reason: minor edit
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Old 20th March 2014, 10:46   #5526
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by bj96 View Post
Recent niggle- cigarette lighter socket (front panel) is blowing the 10A fuse when I wriggle in a mobile charger or GPS charger. Happened twice. I can also see some dark (burnt) spots inside the socket.

-BJ
Local accessories guy would do this. replacing should be simple. My bigger worry is that in can also be a problem with alternator. Just check if your headlight is flickering on engine idling or not. Best of luck.
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Old 20th March 2014, 14:13   #5527
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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Originally Posted by bj96 View Post
Recent niggle- cigarette lighter socket (front panel) is blowing the 10A fuse when I wriggle in a mobile charger or GPS charger. Happened twice. I can also see some dark (burnt) spots inside the socket. ...
Quite likely a short behind the socket - it's wires must be shorting when the center pin moves.

Try removing the middle piece, i.e. the one around the gear level. 2 socket screws on either side. Or strip the carpet on the side of the center console - I think there is a panel that you can remove and access the rear space of the center console. You may need to put your hand in there blindly, or take a pic of the rear side with your phone.
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Old 20th March 2014, 16:07   #5528
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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Originally Posted by ankur_gupta10 View Post
...can also be a problem with alternator. Just check if your headlight is flickering on engine idling or not...

No alternator issues. No headlight flickers either. Last fuse burned out when engine was off and ignition key on accessories.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
Quite likely a short behind the socket - it's wires must be shorting when the center pin moves.

Try removing the middle piece...
Thanks for tips. Yes indeed it is socket issue. Will try in the weekend again.

-BJ
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Old 21st March 2014, 11:12   #5529
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

Somebody stole a wheel nut from the safari. Is the size 19 or 20?
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Old 21st March 2014, 15:08   #5530
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

The safari has gone in for 105,000 service today. Along with starter motor issue.
The starter motor is being repaired/replaced under warranty.

The SA said the sedimenter has to be replaced during this service. Can someone confirm if this needs to be done?

Thanks
Suresh.
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Old 21st March 2014, 15:22   #5531
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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Originally Posted by verditer View Post
The safari has gone in for 105,000 service today. Along with starter motor issue.
The starter motor is being repaired/replaced under warranty.

The SA said the sedimenter has to be replaced during this service. Can someone confirm if this needs to be done?

Thanks
Suresh.
Yes, it needs to be changed ever 105000kms according to owners manual
Timing belt and timing belt tensioner also needs to be changed at 105000kms
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Old 21st March 2014, 15:30   #5532
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

Thanks TSK. The timing belt kit was changed at 75K service time when it got shredded.
I reported it in this thread at that time.

So I have told them to just check it and not to change it. Hope I'm right in doing that.

Sedimenter yes going ahead with its change.

Thanks
Suresh.
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Old 23rd March 2014, 01:17   #5533
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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Originally Posted by sunil_k_u View Post
Many thanks 'ameaa' for enlightening me. I will have the TASS taken to task on these lines. I will also try and find some time and check the play on the wheel as you suggested.

Now that the vehicle is in TASS for an insurance claim (one school bus took some paint/ part of bumper with it from my Safari the other day ), I need to sit back and wait for the vehicle to come back from the body shop.
My safari is back from TASS today after the above mentioned issues rectified. (I got the vehicle after the body repairs/ painting some time ago) I had mentioned to them about the sound heard from the LHS front and hinted them about tightening the idler arm as suggested by 'ameaa'.

I took the car for a test drive before settling the bills at TASS and noticed that the sound from the front suspension is gone for now. Also, the vehicle runs more planted now - wheel balancing and alignment along with correcting the front suspension setup helped, I guess.

The bill mentions that they tightened the idler arm and greased - so, that's is it. Being informed about possible causes/ corrective actions before visiting TASS really helps. I can't thank 'ameaa'/ T-bhp enough!

-Sunil
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Old 23rd March 2014, 13:03   #5534
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by bj96 View Post
...will try in the weekend again.
-BJ
Quote:
Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
...
Try removing the middle piece, i.e. the one around the gear level. 2 socket screws on either side...
Excelllent tip DerlAlte. After some struggle I was able take out the panels and remove the lighter, picture attached below.
The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread-img_20140323_123603.jpg
The black thingy sits on the body and preventing it to come out of the seat when pulled.

After carefully examining I am confused now- the socket has 3-connectors. Two (+ve and ground) are obvious to me, but, the third one inside black plastic (yellow tape I applied) looks like some kind of extra wire which touches (by design?) the ground body of the socket when lighter is pushed in.
The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread-img_20140323_123649.jpg
What is the purpose of this wire? I do not smoke (don't need to light cigarettes). Can I just mask out this wire and remove altogether from the business?

Otherwise I checked the socket with a continuity tester and it looks fine.

Tia,
-BJ
Attached Thumbnails
The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread-img_20140323_123927.jpg  

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Old 23rd March 2014, 17:46   #5535
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Default re: The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

My TCIC beast's lights flicker when engine is running. is it a serious issue?

Also the front right disc got cracks on it.my mechanic saw it while tending to the tie rod and bush for pulling to the left under braking issue.Asked him to change both the front discs but at the moment not available.So my beast is getting some well deserved rest.
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