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Old 21st October 2009, 22:20   #1336
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Default Not able to shift on 5th Gear before 80kph

All,
i am facing a small problem on my week old truck ( driven 800 kms), whenever i try to shift to 5th gear at 50-75 vehicle becomes sluggish as in 5th gear is not required now, but when i shift to 5th after 80kph it drives well. this is bit annoying because i have one more 2.2 which is 2 years old but i easily shift to 5th after 60kph without noticing sluggisness.
my question is
1. is this because vehicle is new and will fade away after 2000-3000 kms
2. is there any problem in gearbox/ECU setting?

Regards,
Shubhendra Singh
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Old 22nd October 2009, 09:16   #1337
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Originally Posted by Shubhendra View Post
All,
i try to shift to 5th gear at 50-75 vehicle becomes sluggish as in 5th gear is
...
i have one more 2.2 which is 2 years old but i easily shift to 5th after 60kph without noticing sluggisness.
Refer owner's manual- it clearly recommends the gear/speed range. IMO shifting to 5th at ~50km/h could be lugging the engine. On a new motor it could be damaging as well.

-BJ
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Old 22nd October 2009, 09:38   #1338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shubhendra View Post
All,
i am facing a small problem on my week old truck ( driven 800 kms), whenever i try to shift to 5th gear at 50-75 vehicle becomes sluggish as in 5th gear is not required now, but when i shift to 5th after 80kph it drives well. this is bit annoying because i have one more 2.2 which is 2 years old but i easily shift to 5th after 60kph without noticing sluggisness.
my question is
1. is this because vehicle is new and will fade away after 2000-3000 kms
2. is there any problem in gearbox/ECU setting?

Regards,
Shubhendra Singh
As BJ mentioned you would be lugging your engine. The manual says you should shift to 5th at 90kmpl, but I shift at 80 kmpl on level ground.
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Old 22nd October 2009, 09:46   #1339
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Originally Posted by Rahulk76 View Post
A big thanks to all who responded back via PM. I have pm'ed you all the details. Let me know if you need any other information.
Can you please share the details over here.

The first lot vehicles [completed or completing 2 years now] havent got the retrofit call. As I gather among these list, only 1 has been done for me - that too quite long time back before the retrofit recall began.


1. Timing Belt Upgradation - done quite some time back

2. Front door Glass actuating Levers - not done
3. Rubber Cover for the ECU - the old tight cover over the ECU
4. ECU software updation - old software still
5. AC fuse updation. - still on old AC fuse, though it has not blown once till now

I am not at all complaining about any pickup or such or the general running condition as such - but a ECU updation and cover and door lever are significant retrofits that the first lot is missing out on.

Last edited by adc : 22nd October 2009 at 10:00.
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Old 22nd October 2009, 09:56   #1340
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Originally Posted by maheshmenon View Post
Was driving from Bangalore to Pondy yesterday night, at Chengam the battery light came "on"., the Idle RPM was erratic between 800-500, but the engine vibration was the same, after some time the RPM read Zero but the engine was still live!!!

After a quick call to the TASS at Pondy, who confirmed that on initial impression it was an alternator failure, assured me that the vehicle can make about 150km trip on the battery power alone, so I chugged along and as I expected no problems and I reached Pondy.

The vehicle is now at TASS, but they say that the alternator warranty is only 1 year, ( my vechile is 20 months old ) so it may have to be repaired at my cost. But they have written to Tata for clarification.

My Doubts :

- Can anyone confirm this one year warranty?? I thought that the warranty was 2 years
- I can vaguely remember the "recall" for the alternator ( my vehicle did not fall in the affected category though); now was this for the alternator or was it for the belt only??
- Is the alternator output used to derive Engine RPM???


Cheers
The warranty for 2.2 VTT is 2 years or 75000 Kms (need to check the KM) which ever is earlier. This warranty is for the the full car and not in bits and pieces. However please go through the warranty conditions in the owner's manual for more details.

The recall was for the alternator. I remember that TASS has changed the alternator.

Theoritically, a diesel engine does not need battery / alternator to run the engine after the engine is started. However in the modern engines which have electronic controls eg: the ECU, some electrical current is required.

K

Last edited by kingshukt : 22nd October 2009 at 10:02.
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Old 22nd October 2009, 09:58   #1341
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Originally Posted by Rahulk76 View Post
A big thanks to all who responded back via PM. I have pm'ed you all the details. Let me know if you need any other information.

Apart from the FE, we have found that the note of engine is also coarser. Now I am not really sure, if its due to the new s/w or the airfilter as reported by smsrini. Having said that, Let me know if thats also the case.

..
Yet to get a call from them!

I get 11kmpl consistently, 100% AC and min time to reach a destination drive style.

Quote:
Originally Posted by maheshmenon View Post
W

The vehicle is now at TASS, but they say that the alternator warranty is only 1 year, ( my vechile is 20 months old ) so it may have to be repaired at my cost. But they have written to Tata for clarification.

My Doubts :

- Can anyone confirm this one year warranty?? I thought that the warranty was 2 years
- I can vaguely remember the "recall" for the alternator ( my vehicle did not fall in the affected category though); now was this for the alternator or was it for the belt only??
- Is the alternator output used to derive Engine RPM???


Cheers
Isnt it two years?

And I think there was an alternator recall and even I got. Check if your one got it or if they missed it!
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Old 22nd October 2009, 10:27   #1342
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Originally Posted by adc View Post
Can you please share the details over here.
If the power delivery has become linear in nature, then it does mean the FE will drop. I mean, now we dont have to wait until 1800rpms for it to launch forward correct !

So, I am trying to gather as much info as I can. Would let us know details as soon as I can.

Hope this helps
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Old 22nd October 2009, 10:39   #1343
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Originally Posted by adc View Post
Can you please share the details over here.

The first lot vehicles [completed or completing 2 years now] havent got the retrofit call. As I gather among these list, only 1 has been done for me - that too quite long time back before the retrofit recall began.


1. Timing Belt Upgradation - done quite some time back

2. Front door Glass actuating Levers - not done
3. Rubber Cover for the ECU - the old tight cover over the ECU
4. ECU software updation - old software still
5. AC fuse updation. - still on old AC fuse, though it has not blown once till now

I am not at all complaining about any pickup or such or the general running condition as such - but a ECU updation and cover and door lever are significant retrofits that the first lot is missing out on.
What is the "old tight cover over the ECU" ?
I never had any cover over the ECU till this upgrade

I suggest that you go Kolkata regional Office of TM and discuss this matter with them.

Since you have done all your servicings at different TASS across many states, there may have been a confusion in TM's system as to your status.

As regards ECU updation, the power delivery is now much more smoother, but many have informed about a drop in FE (hence the post from RAHULK).
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Old 22nd October 2009, 10:50   #1344
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Originally Posted by kingshukt View Post
Theoritically, a diesel engine does not need battery / alternator to run the engine after the engine is started. However in the modern engines which have electronic controls eg: the ECU, some electrical current is required.

K
Not just ECU controlled engines but all newer engines like 2002 Indica need electric current. So if battery dies due to alternator failure, engine will die once it stops getting current.
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Old 22nd October 2009, 11:01   #1345
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingshukt View Post
The warranty for 2.2 VTT is 2 years or 75000 Kms (need to check the KM) which ever is earlier. This warranty is for the the full car and not in bits and pieces. However please go through the warranty conditions in the owner's manual for more details.

The recall was for the alternator. I remember that TASS has changed the alternator.

Theoritically, a diesel engine does not need battery / alternator to run the engine after the engine is started. However in the modern engines which have electronic controls eg: the ECU, some electrical current is required.

K
I had a chat with the manager here and he says that the Alternator in Manufactured & Serviced by "TVS-Lucas" and that the warranty is 1 year.

There is a fine print in the warranty conditions :
"4. As for such parts as tyres, batteries,transfer case, rubber parts, electrical equipment and fuel injection equipment, power steering equipment, A.C. equipment not manufactured by us but supplied by other parties, this warranty shall not apply, but buyers of the vehicle shall be entitled to, so far as permissible by law, all such rights as we may have against such parties under their warranties in respect of such parts......... (blah ...blah....etc.)"

They did say that the alternator can be repaired & that the regulator inside had failed.

How ever the good news is that TATA has responded back to TASS and has instructed them to go for replacement of the complete alternator FOC and not for repair. The part has been sent from Pune today but I will get the vehicle only by Monday evening as they will get the spare only by Monday morning.

Regarding the second point, yes true that diesel machines do not require a battery, but since I was driving in the night, due to the load of the Headlight & Tail lights apart than that required for the various sensors & the ECU ; so the battery was draining at a faster rate and once the power to the ECU is lost, the engine would have shut down.

As per TASS endurance is about 150-200 km for day drive (no elec load) and about 100-150 km for night drive (with only H/L in use) assuming that the battery is in good shape

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkdas View Post

And I think there was an alternator recall and even I got. Check if your one got it or if they missed it!
I had checked with TASS Chennai at that time but they said that my vehicle is not affected.
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Old 22nd October 2009, 11:06   #1346
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Originally Posted by maheshmenon View Post
- I can vaguely remember the "recall" for the alternator ( my vehicle did not fall in the affected category though); now was this for the alternator or was it for the belt only??
- Is the alternator output used to derive Engine RPM???
The entire alternator was replaced then, and those of us who purchased it post-March/April'08 had this retrofitted at the shop floor.
Yes, the pulses from the alternator is used to measure RPM on the diesel engine (as there's no ignition coil here). Sorry for a lame reply.

Regarding the fuel efficiency drop, i have noticed it as well. Not measured the city driving average yet. As jay says, it was between 9 - 10 kmpl until then, for me too. Wonder what's it now.

Where the vehicle used to cruise along fine in 3rd gear at a few sections of a ghat i travel often, it now has to be dropped to 2nd gear. Else, the engine responds as if it's going to shutdown. Agreeing with tsk that the low end torque seems to have reduced now.
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Old 22nd October 2009, 11:12   #1347
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
The retro fit also involved some changes in timing gear. 2.2 initial batch had an issue with timing belt breaking. All were fixed under warranty.
From what I could understand from my TASS - B U Bhandari, the initial timing belt failures have had engine changes - under warranty ofcourse.

The failed engines were shipped to TM and new engines received in exchange. Only engine and not engine + gear box.
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Old 22nd October 2009, 11:37   #1348
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Originally Posted by dkamath View Post
The entire alternator was replaced then, and those of us who purchased it post-March/April'08 had this retrofitted at the shop floor.
Yes, the pulses from the alternator is used to measure RPM on the diesel engine (as there's no ignition coil here). Sorry for a lame reply.
My vehicle is Dec '07 and my alternator too was changed. I recall that Dadu too got his changed. I therefore surmise that all the initial lots of vehicles (including that of ADC) should have had alternator change.

There is a tapping from the alternator windings for the RPM. This is a proven technology and TM vehicles had this since the Sierra days. (I think that the tapping is from the secondary coil - but need to check)

@maheshmenon: Only the regulator change is good news. This is a relatively inexpensive part and TVS sells this part independently also. After warranty getting a yearly AMC done with Lucas TVS is a good idea. They do have such schemes and it is relatively inexpensive.

@MODS: Please excuse the back to back post
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Old 22nd October 2009, 12:32   #1349
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Originally Posted by kingshukt View Post
My vehicle is Dec '07 and my alternator too was changed. I recall that Dadu too got his changed. I therefore surmise that all the initial lots of vehicles (including that of ADC) should have had alternator change.
Correction, alternator was not changed in mine, although they checked and told me that no change was required.
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Old 22nd October 2009, 13:24   #1350
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Originally Posted by dadu View Post
Correction, alternator was not changed in mine, although they checked and told me that no change was required.
Oops - my bad. excuse me.

It therefore indicates that TM / Lucas TVS had either changed the design after the initials lots (ADC - please confirm / deny change) or have had a bad / defective lot / defective design for the intermediate period.
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