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Old 28th October 2009, 22:49   #1381
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There is an indicator of the heating voil.But its just there so are ABS and SRS which are non-existent on my vehicle.
So I assume from Rahul,Happywheels and tsk's post that its just a dummy.

@tsk,
If there are no glowplugs in the 3.0 then how does the cranking mechanism work.
And do you mean i need not wait for a few seconds between turning on the ignition and cracking the engine.I was used to this since my ford escort days.
You mean I need not wait between turning on the ignition and cranking the engine and go straight ahead with firing the engine.
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Old 29th October 2009, 00:38   #1382
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You still have to wait for the "SERVICE" light to go off before you crank the engine.
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Old 29th October 2009, 10:00   #1383
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
You still have to wait for the "SERVICE" light to go off before you crank the engine.
I guess "SERVICE" light in 2.2 VTT is the same as "CHECK ENGINE" in 3.0.
Anyways thanks a lot TSK for clearing my doubts.

Actually team-bhp has now become encyclopedia of solutions to all automotive issues.
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Old 29th October 2009, 14:37   #1384
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Glow plugs are essential for indirect Injection diesel engines. They are not mandatory for Direct Injection engines. 3.0 and 2.2 are Direct injection engines (DICOR - Direct Injection Common Rail).

But the 2.2 still has the glow plug indicator in its cluster.
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Old 29th October 2009, 14:51   #1385
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Originally Posted by Prowler View Post
Glow plugs are essential for indirect Injection diesel engines. They are not mandatory for Direct Injection engines. 3.0 and 2.2 are Direct injection engines (DICOR - Direct Injection Common Rail).

But the 2.2 still has the glow plug indicator in its cluster.
Normally larger engine blocks do not need glow plugs
In a diesel engine, when the piston moves upwards, it pressurized air to high temperature. Fuel mist is sprayed into this hot air, and it ignites
Now since compression ratio is very high, the engine block larger.
If its cold(like overnight in snow), its like a heat sink
the heat is quickly dissipated, and diesel does not ignite.
However in a large capacity engine the air in the middle of cylinder is not in contact with the walls, and thus does not cool down rapidly.
Hence larger engine do not need glow plugs.

Indirect injection engines are more thermally inefficient, so they require longer glow plug times than their direct injection counterparts, but for a block sized 2.2 even in direct injection avatar, you need a glowplug in cold climes.

For example, in the safari, in around 10 degree temperatures, glow plug is on just for a couple of seconds, instead of 5 or more seconds needed for the IDI indica.
Infact in autumn with morning temp of 20 degree see, I see glow plug light on as long as service light, and infact if I crank immediately, she starts.
For the indica, if I immediately crank, she will not start

when outside temp is close to 0, the glow plug indicator on the 2.2 glows for a good 3-4 seconds after the service light goes off.
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Old 29th October 2009, 15:52   #1386
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post

but for a block sized 2.2 even in direct injection avatar, you need a glowplug in cold climes.


when outside temp is close to 0, the glow plug indicator on the 2.2 glows for a good 3-4 seconds after the service light goes off.
In such case(read cold climes) how is the cranking handled in the 3.0 which does not have the glow plugs as you mentioned?
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Old 29th October 2009, 16:20   #1387
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alter_Ego View Post
In such case(read cold climes) how is the cranking handled in the 3.0 which does not have the glow plugs as you mentioned?
It has glow plugs, excerpts from the 3.0 DICOR manual, page 30.

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Alomost 100% of diesel engines will have a heating plug since they can be used in any kind of environments, specifically meant for colder ones and the manufacturers cannot decide that.
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Old 29th October 2009, 16:26   #1388
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Well Dadu, for a block 3L in size and direct injection, I do not thing glow plugs will be needed.
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Old 29th October 2009, 16:30   #1389
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Dadu, I'm 100% sure my 3.0L doesn't have glow plugs. I'm not sure about the Page 30 you've referred to, need to check out my Manual & revert back to you.
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Old 29th October 2009, 16:36   #1390
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Dadu the owners manual on Tata website is 2.2 manual. I could not find 3.0 manual there
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Old 29th October 2009, 16:43   #1391
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Dadu the owners manual on Tata website is 2.2 manual. I could not find 3.0 manual there
I have a draft softcopy from before the 2.2l was introduced. The service schedule also mentions glow plugs.

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Suman can check the physical manual and confirm.
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Old 29th October 2009, 16:55   #1392
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dadu View Post
Suman can check the physical manual and confirm.
I will but I can straightaway confirm that Glow Plugs are not included anywhere in the service schedule. Will check Page 30 for the other reference that you've given.

Draft Manual makes me believe that it was for the 2.2 - and I understand from you guys that the 2.2 does have glow plugs.
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Old 29th October 2009, 16:59   #1393
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Now thats real strange Dadu. Its rare to see a 3L direct injection engine which needs glowplugs, but then Tata tests the safari in sweden at -20 degree C, at that temp even the 3.0 block may need them

Suman, once a mechanic told me that 2.2 does not have glow plugs, and the light is dummy, then on my first hill trip, the glow plug indicator stayed on for a good 3 seconds more than the service(check engine) indicator on.
Even at Khoksar, when temp was 0, the glow plug indicator kept glowing for 5 seconds after the service light went off.

So unlike the indica, where the glow plugs stay on for 5 seconds no matter what, the glow plug timer of safari dicor is more advanced.
Now some food for thought. Glow plug timer of indica is 1700rs and outside market around 1500rs.
I shudder to think what would it cost in the safari!

Last edited by tsk1979 : 29th October 2009 at 17:01.
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Old 29th October 2009, 17:37   #1394
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dadu View Post
It has glow plugs, excerpts from the 3.0 DICOR manual, page 30.
All, there is a indicator for the glow plug on the 3.0 that I can confirm.
I can see it with my bare eyes.The only point of contention being I have never seen it light up.
This indicator is right above the "CHECK ENGINE" light.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dadu View Post
Alomost 100% of diesel engines will have a heating plug since they can be used in any kind of environments, specifically meant for colder ones and the manufacturers cannot decide that.
totally.


Quote:
Originally Posted by suman View Post
Dadu, I'm 100% sure my 3.0L doesn't have glow plugs. I'm not sure about the Page 30 you've referred to, need to check out my Manual & revert back to you.
Suman even I thought so initially.But a look at the instrument cluster proved me wrong.you can see the indicator there.same intensity as the the dummy SRS and Airbag indicators and similarly it never glows.

Quote:
Originally Posted by suman View Post
I will but I can straightaway confirm that Glow Plugs are not included anywhere in the service schedule. Will check Page 30 for the other reference that you've given.

Draft Manual makes me believe that it was for the 2.2 - and I understand from you guys that the 2.2 does have glow plugs.
If both are DICORs then why did TATA take so much pain to change the cranking mechanism.They could have spent that much on adding a few bhps
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Old 29th October 2009, 17:44   #1395
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alter_Ego View Post
Suman even I thought so initially.But a look at the instrument cluster proved me wrong.you can see the indicator there.same intensity as the the dummy SRS and Airbag indicators and similarly it never glows.
The instrument cluster has a lot of lights that are not applicable to a particular model - as you can see for yourself, you have the ABS & SRS indicators but neither exist in your model. The instrument cluster does not really change from model to model.

There are no Glow Plugs in the 3.0L


Quote:
Originally Posted by Alter_Ego View Post
If both are DICORs then why did TATA take so much pain to change the cranking mechanism.They could have spent that much on adding a few bhps
Check out Tanveer's explanation on engine displacement.
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