Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Technical Stuff


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 7th August 2008, 22:09   #16
BHPian
 
vebmetal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 789
Thanked: 15 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vchounal View Post
The absence of ABS (even in higher segment cars) is because we Indians are penny wise and pound foolish. To save a small amount, we are ready to foresake safety and play with our lives. It is amusing to hear that since we don't drive fast or don't drive on highways, we don't need ABS. If Indian consumer was even little concerned with safety, car makers would have been forced to offer ABS option with their cars. But the car makers know that Indians are obsessed with price and fuel economy of cars and not with their safety.
No one I know in my 26 years of life has ever been in a situation where the lack or presence of ABS made the difference between an accident and a near miss. I didn't get ABS for my car since the conditions under which I drive don't require it. That is to say that the main purpose of ABS AFAIK is that your brake doesn't lock your steering (hence the name - anti-locking braking system). Thus, it's really useful in situations where your car can skid.

This is what I found on Transport Canada's website:
Quote:
In a recent Canadian Automobile Association survey of some 1700 members, 66% correctly associated ABS with vehicle stability in an emergency, and 53% correctly stated that ABS allows the driver to steer while braking.

Since the ABS will not allow the tire to stop rotating, you can brake and steer at the same time. The braking and steering ability of the vehicle is limited by the amount of traction the tire can generate
ABS IMHO makes a whole lot of sense in western countries where driving at high speeds on highways is common, even when it is raining or snowing. In places like Delhi, this is clearly not the case.

That is not to say that I would mind a situation, such as the OP hypothesizes, where economies of scale that comes with making ABS standard equipment on cars makes the extra cost negligible. But in the current scenario IMHO for most people ABS is a superfluous accessory. So i certainly don't share the chagrin expressed by the OP et al.

Last edited by vebmetal : 7th August 2008 at 22:10.
vebmetal is offline  
Old 7th August 2008, 22:24   #17
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: BLR
Posts: 2,222
Thanked: 11 Times
Default

I waited possibly 3 months extra for an ABS equipped vehicle.

Was it worth it
.
.
.
.
.
.
?
s0uljah is offline  
Old 7th August 2008, 23:04   #18
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,350
Thanked: 31 Times
Default

vebmetal, the lack and presence of ABS does make a difference between an accident and a near miss. I've been in both and can vouch for it.

1. Cycle suddenly veers into my path. I break, don't have ABS, so I'm unable to steer. The cycle is directly on my path. I hit the cycle, albeit slowly. Nothing happened (thankfully)

2. Cyclist suddenly jumps the center median and crosses the road. I break, have ABS, so am able to steer around him and a couple of bystanders without hitting anyone. Car behind me does not have ABS and hits the cyclists even though his brakes are screaming !!

Now lets not get into the debate of anticipating the cyclist and driving at cautious speeds. :-)
csentil is offline  
Old 7th August 2008, 23:28   #19
BHPian
 
anandtheleo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Chennai
Posts: 351
Thanked: 176 Times
Default

Those who say ABS does not help in city/slow speeds, think again. I had a enlightening experience the other day.

Those who are from Chennai would know that there is a U turn to take the new Kathiapara flyover just after the BSNL office on GST road. Its a fairly big U turn and there is no problem of oncoming traffic as their way is blocked by stones, so when I was taking this turn at a speed of about 25 km/h there was some loose sand/gravel I guess which I did not notice. I am half-way into my U-turn and the ABS kicks in to save the wheels from spinning out of control. Boy! if ABS had not been there, the wheels would have lost traction and I could have skidded.
anandtheleo is online now  
Old 8th August 2008, 00:03   #20
BHPian
 
theEnd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Bombay
Posts: 534
Thanked: 5 Times
Default

ever saw an accident with a set of thick tyre marks leading up to the spot of the collission? What that means is that the driver slammed on the brakes, the wheels locked up, and the car skidded into the crash. When your wheels lock up you can't steer and your car just keeps going in the same direction.
There are many people who would have been alive today had they been driving an ABS equipped car.
theEnd is offline  
Old 8th August 2008, 00:08   #21
Senior - BHPian
 
razor4077's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 1,875
Thanked: 252 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by anandtheleo View Post
Those who say ABS does not help in city/slow speeds, think again. I had a enlightening experience the other day.

Those who are from Chennai would know that there is a U turn to take the new Kathiapara flyover just after the BSNL office on GST road. Its a fairly big U turn and there is no problem of oncoming traffic as their way is blocked by stones, so when I was taking this turn at a speed of about 25 km/h there was some loose sand/gravel I guess which I did not notice. I am half-way into my U-turn and the ABS kicks in to save the wheels from spinning out of control. Boy! if ABS had not been there, the wheels would have lost traction and I could have skidded.
I hope this doesn't sound dumb... but how did ABS provide traction? If I'm not mistaken ABS kicks in when you brake hard and prevents the tyres from locking up.
Am somehow unable to fit this in with your scenario. Could you please explain?
razor4077 is offline  
Old 8th August 2008, 01:20   #22
BHPian
 
absynthguzzler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: hyderabad
Posts: 650
Thanked: 223 Times
Default Newton didnt eat the apple that fell down , he started thinking

Everyone accepts that braking distance is not drastically reduced when ABS is installed .The fact that one can steer his vehicle and gain control of the situation is what will save lives .

one has the best brakes available in the market ...... but of what use is it if he's got the worst tyres ???

one has got the best reaction times available to him at the times of crisis, but of what use is it if he cannot have control of his actions after braking hard ???

One can have the best handling hatchback, but of what use is it if he/she is facing a tree head-on only cause he went off the road to avoid a drunk cabbie.He then realises that if he steers , he might hit the tree sideways coz suddenly he's been braking on tarmac and now he's on dry gravel or soil .Can he/she even think of the force needed to brake and get the car in control at a time like this ?


Bad tyres, Bad brakes , Bad/Slow reaction times, changes in road surfaces, the effects of all these at a time of crisis will most definitely be reduced to a certain degree when ABS is installed.

Id like to end by saying that its not about being sensitive about ABS alone.

I'm being sensitive on the boundaries that one creates around themselves on whats safe and whats not.I'd like to think we can go about increasing these boundaries and making our roads a safer place.
absynthguzzler is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 8th August 2008, 03:17   #23
BHPian
 
vebmetal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 789
Thanked: 15 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by theEnd View Post
ever saw an accident with a set of thick tyre marks leading up to the spot of the collission? What that means is that the driver slammed on the brakes, the wheels locked up, and the car skidded into the crash. When your wheels lock up you can't steer and your car just keeps going in the same direction.
There are many people who would have been alive today had they been driving an ABS equipped car.
Quote:
Originally Posted by csentil View Post
vebmetal, the lack and presence of ABS does make a difference between an accident and a near miss. I've been in both and can vouch for it.

1. Cycle suddenly veers into my path. I break, don't have ABS, so I'm unable to steer. The cycle is directly on my path. I hit the cycle, albeit slowly. Nothing happened (thankfully)

2. Cyclist suddenly jumps the center median and crosses the road. I break, have ABS, so am able to steer around him and a couple of bystanders without hitting anyone. Car behind me does not have ABS and hits the cyclists even though his brakes are screaming !!

Now lets not get into the debate of anticipating the cyclist and driving at cautious speeds. :-)
ok that makes sense. Hmmm.. maybe I should have got ABS
vebmetal is offline  
Old 8th August 2008, 04:57   #24
Senior - BHPian
 
kuttapan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1,155
Thanked: 12 Times
Default

I would just say that for spirited drivers - ABS is mandatory. For others, experience is the best teacher. If you have never had a situation in life where you thought ABS would have helped, good for you, move on in your non-ABS life, until experience teaches you otherwise.

Whoever says that ABS reduces braking distances - How do you brake? You brake based on feel, because having driven a car for sometime, you have an idea of it's braking distances(it may be more or less to a comparable model). You do not say, oh my speed is 60kph, and I know that 60-0 takes 21.4 metres so let me brake exactly 22 metres away from the car in front. You brake at a point where you feel your car is going to stop in time. Your brain programmes itself to apply brakes in time(it does not really matter whether your car has ABS or not, you brain will brake accordingly). So maybe you will brake earlier in an ABS car than a non-ABS one in a similiar situation.

If you are late(to see a particular obstacle or situation), you slam the brakes hard anyway, uttering a prayer and hoping you escape alive - regardless of whether your car has ABS or not. The difference is, an ABS car gives you an OPTION of steering away, the non-ABS one does not. That does not mean that you drive your way into the nearest tree in an ABS car at every possible chance.

I rest my case.

P.S> I am a stickler for ABS, fought a lot to get a maruti Swift Vdi ABS when they were so rare.
kuttapan is offline  
Old 8th August 2008, 08:29   #25
Senior - BHPian
 
vivekiny2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: cincinnati, jabalpur,chennai
Posts: 1,241
Thanked: 163 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by razor4077 View Post
I hope this doesn't sound dumb... but how did ABS provide traction? If I'm not mistaken ABS kicks in when you brake hard and prevents the tyres from locking up.
Am somehow unable to fit this in with your scenario. Could you please explain?
when the tyres are skidding, the car keeps moving exactly in the direction it was moving at the time of skid, no matter where the steering is oriented.

if they are not skidding, they move and take the car with themselves, making steering possible.

I opted for ABS, and everybody should. I think we have discussed enough about ABS on this forum. But in a country where getting a car can be the hardest part for a family with a two wheeler, does it make any sense to make ABS compulsory and standard?
vivekiny2k is offline  
Old 8th August 2008, 09:44   #26
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: BLR
Posts: 2,222
Thanked: 11 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kuttapan View Post
move on in your non-ABS life, until experience teaches you otherwise.
Nice one chetta, hehehehe !!
s0uljah is offline  
Old 8th August 2008, 10:01   #27
Senior - BHPian
 
aaggoswami's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Vadodara
Posts: 4,675
Thanked: 1,427 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vivekiny2k View Post
when the tyres are skidding, the car keeps moving exactly in the direction it was moving at the time of skid, no matter where the steering is oriented.
Sometimes the rear end of cars can come out when the tyres are skidding. I have experienced in Indica and Maruti 800. So its not always that the car will move exactly in the direction it was moving at the time of skid.


Quote:
Originally Posted by vivekiny2k View Post

But in a country where getting a car can be the hardest part for a family with a two wheeler, does it make any sense to make ABS compulsory and standard?
But we can atleast give this feature as an available option to all the cars.
aaggoswami is offline  
Old 8th August 2008, 10:26   #28
BHPian
 
srijit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Trivandrum
Posts: 594
Thanked: 6 Times
Default

I am not against ABS. In fact it should be given as an option, but I dont feel that it should be made compulsory. Having ABS does not magically make you a better driver. You have to be a good driver in the first place to be able to steer away when you are panic braking.

I also feel that instead of making ABS compulsory (which is just taking money away from the consumer), the govt should provide better infrastructure in the form of well maintained roads with more than one lane. Strict enforcement of overtaking, crossing the road etc will also help.
Why is it that Indians drive however they want to, in India, (and blame brakes when something goes wrong) but drive beautifully once they have left the country?
srijit is offline  
Old 8th August 2008, 10:30   #29
BHPian
 
raajks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: BLR
Posts: 578
Thanked: 117 Times
Default

[quote=srijit;932011]I am not against ABS. In fact it should be given as an option, but I dont feel that it should be made compulsory. Having ABS does not magically make you a better driver. You have to be a good driver in the first place to be able to steer away when you are panic braking.
/quote]


People who want it, install it. There are folks who can live without it.
raajks is offline  
Old 8th August 2008, 10:36   #30
BHPian
 
anandtheleo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Chennai
Posts: 351
Thanked: 176 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by razor4077 View Post
I hope this doesn't sound dumb... but how did ABS provide traction? If I'm not mistaken ABS kicks in when you brake hard and prevents the tyres from locking up.
Am somehow unable to fit this in with your scenario. Could you please explain?

No question is dumb, we all are still learning everyday. What happened with me was, I was traveling at around 40 km/h and I knew before hand that this U-turn will have no oncoming traffic as its blocked, so I took the turn a little faster than in a normal U-turn. But when I braked as I approached the U-turn, there was gravel/sand on the road which caused the ABS to kick in. The ABS kicked in when I was 20-30% into my turn. In case ABS was not there, my car would have skidded and would have come to a halt facing perpendicular to the road.

So I think ABS comes into play not only when tyres are locked, but also when the tyres start loosing grip on the road. I may be wrong, but this is what I experienced.
anandtheleo is online now  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Proposal: Government wants to make ABS & CBS on bikes compulsory from 2017 The Great Motorbikes 44 2nd December 2017 21:57
Government wants to make Airbags & ABS standard on new cars SumitBahl The Indian Car Scene 139 14th June 2016 20:17
April 2015: ABS compulsory for commercial vehicles in India racer_ash Commercial Vehicles 88 15th May 2015 10:51
Government could make ABS compulsory for two-wheelers Aditya Motorbikes 38 22nd December 2014 09:27
Plan studied to make car phone kits compulsory in Dubai Parm The International Automotive Scene 6 12th November 2011 10:42


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 22:49.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks