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Old 18th August 2013, 12:24   #31
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Default Re: Are my swift's Shock absorbers dead!!???

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Originally Posted by carboy View Post
As I have said in both my posts, I doubt if I will notice anything unless the suspension breaks and the car stops in the middle of the road.
Some tell tale signs that you can look for -
1 -> Ride becomes very bumpy. The car will bounce of even slightly uneven roads. Passengers will feel like being on a merry go round that keeps going up and down.
2 -> There will be a percievable drop in the cushioning of the car. You will actually feel the vibrations of driving on un-even roads
3 -> You will hear very audible thud-thud sounds while going through pot holes or badly designed road bumps.
4 -> You will also hear a klonk like sound on normal even humps.

See if you can observe these things when you drive.
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Old 18th August 2013, 12:31   #32
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Default Re: Are my swift's Shock absorbers dead!!???

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Originally Posted by zoombiee View Post
Some tell tale signs that you can look for -
1 -> Ride becomes very bumpy. The car will bounce of even slightly uneven roads. Passengers will feel like being on a merry go round that keeps going up and down.
2 -> There will be a percievable drop in the cushioning of the car. You will actually feel the vibrations of driving on un-even roads
3 -> You will hear very audible thud-thud sounds while going through pot holes or badly designed road bumps.
4 -> You will also hear a klonk like sound on normal even humps.

See if you can observe these things when you drive.
Somehow I am not able to gauge differences in sound and feel. I get used to stuff very fast. I am sure it it be difficult for people who feel minor changes easily to understand this, but that's how it is with me.

When my clutch went bad, I couldn't gauge the difference till actually I couldn't go beyond 30-40 km/hr.

Last edited by GTO : 19th August 2013 at 13:33. Reason: Watch the attitude, please. Do NOT post in a rude manner on the forum
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Old 18th August 2013, 13:41   #33
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Originally Posted by carboy View Post

As I have said in both my posts, I doubt if I will notice anything unless the suspension breaks and the car stops in the middle of the road.
Please don't shout at me. I know you can't feel the suspension thingie but just another try from me.

For example (For a worn out suspension): Take the car with all it's tyres off the rims and try driving it. How would be the feeling you would be getting over rough roads and bumps?!

OR

You would have sat on a cycle/bike with a punctured tyre right so the state of feeling while on normal tyres (with correct tyre pressures) will give you that suspension is off.

So if you are feeling that your ride is like this then suspension is off.

How are the roads and is condition in your area?

Anurag.
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Old 18th August 2013, 14:20   #34
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Default Re: Are my swift's Shock absorbers dead!!???

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Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
Please don't shout at me. I know you can't feel the suspension thingie but just another try from me.
:-) Why would I shout? I am asking for help & people are trying to help. Only thing is it's difficult for people to gauge how bad I am at gauging sound and feel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
For example (For a worn out suspension): Take the car with all it's tyres off the rims and try driving it. How would be the feeling you would be getting over rough roads and bumps?!


OR

You would have sat on a cycle/bike with a punctured tyre right so the state of feeling while on normal tyres (with correct tyre pressures) will give you that suspension is off.

So if you are feeling that your ride is like this then suspension is off.
It's surely not that bad.


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Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post

How are the roads and is condition in your area?

Anurag.
Roads are pretty decent.
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Old 18th August 2013, 15:51   #35
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Default Re: Are my swift's Shock absorbers dead!!???

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Originally Posted by carboy View Post
It's surely not that bad.
If that is the case then take the car to a trusted MASS or a mechanic and get it inspected thoroughly.

Don't delay much as the problem if diagnosed could create damage to your car and your pocket.

Anurag.
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Old 29th August 2013, 05:03   #36
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Any update to the problem that you were facing?

What does MASS say?

Anurag.
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Old 29th August 2013, 11:28   #37
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Default Re: Are my swift's Shock absorbers dead!!???

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Originally Posted by carboy View Post
My Swift Petrol VXI-ABS 2007 has now done 70000 kms. The tyres are stock sizes. I just got the 70000 km minor service done. The service adviser said that the suspension is gone. I asked him what he said that it's become very weak and would break. He said the steering parts can be repaired but the suspension parts would have to be replaced. He all together it would cost Rs. 33,000.

Now my questions are
1) How can I confirm it actually needs this work. I don't understand any problems which my car has by sound or feel. I am usually blissfully unaware till the car actually breaks down. Is there any other way to test this out.
2) Can this work be done outside - would it be cheaper - how much? I really don't want to spend Rs. 33,000 on a 6 year old car.
3) Around a 15000 kms back, another Maruti Service center had told me that my car's suspension is leaking oil - I didn't trust them, so I took my car to Vitesse in Andheri and there the guy took a test drive and also checked quickly and said there are no leaks.
First of all the part in bold is the biggest cock and bull story made up by those people. Whenever someone says his suspension/shox/shockers/shock absorbers (or whatever those illiterate mechanics say) need replacement it usually means the damper is not working.

Shock absorber = spring + damper. The spring is just a coil and doesn't really wear. It can break. But then no one unless he has x-ray vision can know in advance. So what really goes kaput is the damper. And frankly damper is nothing but a tube with sealed fluid (air or oil) and a piston (the fluid resists piston's movement and thus dampens it).

So I cannot believe that the service adviser can even claim that if you don't replace the damper your suspension will BREAK!!! You can keep running your vehicle without dampers working.

The only issue with this is that it compromises the handling and consequently the safety of your vehicle. Springs without damping means continuous oscillations - and this is what everyone has been talking about when they say press the bonnet and watch how it "springs back".

I have a better way (in my opinion). You run your car wheel (one at a time) over a decent sized pot holes at medium speed (say about 40 kmph). The suspension whose damper is working will release the spring slowly and thus you may feel the pot hole, but very softly.

The suspension whose dampers are bust will release the spring immediately and thus fill the pot hole, but due to fast spring action you will "hear" a bang. You may not feel the pot hole because the wheel moves down very fast in this case.


4-5K per "shocker" is what you may expect to pay. 70 KM is a pretty large mileage and many cars do get their dampers bust by this time. But frankly if it doesn't bother you (comfort wise) and if you don't drive above 60-80 kmph ever, then you can delay this "repair work" forever.


The keyword is *damper*. When it works you feel the dampened motion (elegant/classy). When it doesn't you feel the abrupt spring motion (violent/knee jerk).

Last edited by alpha1 : 29th August 2013 at 11:35.
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Old 29th August 2013, 11:44   #38
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Default Re: Are my swift's Shock absorbers dead!!???

Firstly, Let me get some technicalities in the picture.

- Lower arms need replacement if they develop a play or the bush is bust or they have bent. A trained mechanic during a suspension overhaul will have an eye for this.

- If your struts are leaking, then there is no way around that other than replacement. At 70 thousand, it would be futile to replace just one and let the non leaking one be. Both of them need to be replaced or you will have the car dive to one side during hard braking + very un predictable handling. Replace both at such mileage if anyone of them is leaking.

- If the struts are fine, you can change the strut bushes + bearings. Over time the bushes harden and they lose their absorption properties which in turn will filter vibrations inside the cabin and make the driver feel like the car has no suspension making him feel every thud and bump on the road.

- Stabilizers are one more area which should be looked at. When they develop a play, you start getting a feeling as if something below the steering is loose accompanied by a kat kat sound when you go over paver blocks. An easy and cheap fix at Rs 700 a pop. Get both sides changed at once.

This I guess should be everything.

33000 INR for a suspension overhaul is daylight robbery, don't fall for it.

To give you a perspective, I have A Swift Diesel, it stands at 78500, taken to many parts of India, Ladakh Leh circuit once too. Its suspension is still bone stock, never opened for any change except a stabilizer change. It has started showing signs that needs a Strut Bush replacement, which I am going to get done at the 80000 service and thats about it.

Don't fall for this 33000 bull.
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Old 29th August 2013, 13:52   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by humyum View Post
Firstly, Let me get some technicalities in the picture.

- Lower arms need replacement if they develop a play or the bush is bust or they have bent. A trained mechanic during a suspension overhaul will have an eye for this.

- If your struts are leaking, then there is no way around that other than replacement. At 70 thousand, it would be futile to replace just one and let the non leaking one be. Both of them need to be replaced or you will have the car dive to one side during hard braking + very un predictable handling. Replace both at such mileage if anyone of them is leaking.

- If the struts are fine, you can change the strut bushes + bearings. Over time the bushes harden and they lose their absorption properties which in turn will filter vibrations inside the cabin and make the driver feel like the car has no suspension making him feel every thud and bump on the road.

- Stabilizers are one more area which should be looked at. When they develop a play, you start getting a feeling as if something below the steering is loose accompanied by a kat kat sound when you go over paver blocks. An easy and cheap fix at Rs 700 a pop. Get both sides changed at once.

This I guess should be everything.

33000 INR for a suspension overhaul is daylight robbery, don't fall for it.

To give you a perspective, I have A Swift Diesel, it stands at 78500, taken to many parts of India, Ladakh Leh circuit once too. Its suspension is still bone stock, never opened for any change except a stabilizer change. It has started showing signs that needs a Strut Bush replacement, which I am going to get done at the 80000 service and thats about it.

Don't fall for this 33000 bull.
Wow that is informative. I have been getting clanking sounds from the right front wheel lately. Was suspecting the strut or the arm(kainchi = scissor-mechanic lingo) to be the culprit. Will take it over and get it checked with these points in mind. Car is close to 58k on the odo. Though I feel the struts are fine as they can handle a pothole at slow speeds. But the moment I go beyond 60kmph. The ride becomes bouncy and if I hit even a small pothole it shudders and jumps around like someone electrocuted the living day lights out of it!
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Old 30th August 2013, 02:05   #40
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Originally Posted by humyum View Post
This I guess should be everything.
Thank you for the technicalities and it helped me too.

Was doubting my cars front left suspension as it was creating sounds which weren't normal. Opened this post went to MASS and checked. Took a TD post analysis and all fine. I drive a 2010 Ritz VDi which is nearing 1 lakh kms.

For an average Indian user what would be the life of these parts on our crater filed roads?

Anurag.
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Old 30th August 2013, 14:47   #41
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Default Re: Are my swift's Shock absorbers dead!!???

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Originally Posted by bigblackshark View Post
Wow that is informative. I have been getting clanking sounds from the right front wheel lately. Was suspecting the strut or the arm(kainchi = scissor-mechanic lingo) to be the culprit. Will take it over and get it checked with these points in mind. Car is close to 58k on the odo. Though I feel the struts are fine as they can handle a pothole at slow speeds. But the moment I go beyond 60kmph. The ride becomes bouncy and if I hit even a small pothole it shudders and jumps around like someone electrocuted the living day lights out of it!
Should be the strut bushes, although I can't be sure without hearing it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
Thank you for the technicalities and it helped me too.

Was doubting my cars front left suspension as it was creating sounds which weren't normal. Opened this post went to MASS and checked. Took a TD post analysis and all fine. I drive a 2010 Ritz VDi which is nearing 1 lakh kms.

For an average Indian user what would be the life of these parts on our crater filed roads?

Anurag.
You are welcome. Well, the life of these parts entirely depends on the way you drive over bad roads plus how much of highway + city you do. At 1 lakh km if you did have to spend a bit on the suspension, I think it would be a fair life you have achieved out of it.

Also for example, My running has been 70% highway and 30% city and thats the reason for my suspension not needing an open in around 78500 kilometers. Also during every service, I get my suspension judiciously re torqued. That has helped the feel of the car at high speeds remain crisp and sharp.
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Old 30th August 2013, 15:07   #42
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Default Re: Are my swift's Shock absorbers dead!!???

Hi Grizzly. The Swift by default has a stiff suspension. No wonder they use a 165/80/R14 profile tire which I believe is the highest profile offered in this segment. Having owned a Swift in the past which I used for a total of 06 year and 80k+ kms, I had initially up sized to 196/60/R15 and then to 205/55/R15 and then back to 195/60/R15. I all cases the ride was an issue. As the tires wear out, the ride gets worse.

I now own a Polo 1.6 and have been on the stock tires since the past year and a half and pretty content with the 185/60/R15 JK Vectras. I want to look at a better tire in this size but I believe no brand has this size. My only options are 195/60/R15 and 205/55/R15 but I am a little skeptical about this.
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Old 30th August 2013, 16:28   #43
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Default Re: Are my swift's Shock absorbers dead!!???

humyum is completly right; its the damper that goes not the spring; Also there are couple of things that work in tandem and any one of them going is a bad suspension overall

1. Front STruts
2. Control Arm Bushes
3. Steering Stabilizer; if equipped with one
4. Top Mount of the strut

Now the only techical way of checking a strut is removing it and inspect for leak; and if no leak.. Measure the resting length; fully compressed length and pressure it takes to get fully compressed and compare that to tolerances mentioned in the manual

For bushes; a visual impression will tell the story from underneath the car; Typically when the bushes go for control arms you start hearing rubmling noises


But before you do any .. first thing always is...

Have you checked your wheel balancing? and alignment


Just my two cents
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Old 30th August 2013, 16:32   #44
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Default Re: Are my swift's Shock absorbers dead!!???

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Originally Posted by Epic View Post
Hi Grizzly. The Swift by default has a stiff suspension. No wonder they use a 165/80/R14 profile tire which I believe is the highest profile offered in this segment. Having owned a Swift in the past which I used for a total of 06 year and 80k+ kms, I had initially up sized to 196/60/R15 and then to 205/55/R15 and then back to 195/60/R15. I all cases the ride was an issue. As the tires wear out, the ride gets worse.

I now own a Polo 1.6 and have been on the stock tires since the past year and a half and pretty content with the 185/60/R15 JK Vectras. I want to look at a better tire in this size but I believe no brand has this size. My only options are 195/60/R15 and 205/55/R15 but I am a little skeptical about this.
Hi,
195/60/R15 is a popular upsize. Also, I haven't really heard people complaining much on the Polo with this choice, what exactly are you skeptical about?
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Old 30th August 2013, 17:43   #45
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Default Re: Are my swift's Shock absorbers dead!!???

This might not be helpfull, but I thought I would just throw in how shock absorbers get tested in Europe. Most dealers or well equipped garages will have test equipment.

This one, http://www.insurancechat.co.za/2012-...tment-centres/, is a pretty elaborate one. But there are also very simple devices which you hook up by magnet to the car. Then push the suspension in a specified number of inches and release. The device register the way the shock absorber dampens. You get a reading and via a simple table you get an idea whether its ok or not.

My own experience is that shock absorber are ok, or they are bust. Unless you very advanced ones that have different setting (e.g. as on my Jaguar) it seems to be more or less digital.

On some cars it is relatively easy to get at the shock absorbers. Just undo either the top or bottom and move it by hand. If it moves easily its definitely gone. And as stated before, if you see any liquids leaking, same thing, its gone.

It is a common practice to replace shocks per pair as well.

Jeroen
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