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Old 27th June 2013, 10:29   #61
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Default re: Fiat Linea T-Jet: Battery dead? Or something else?

In Punto Multijet the earliest sign of battery going weak was Airbag light coming on. This happened to my friend's Punto, the diagnosis (by Fiat ASC and Independent battery vendor) confirmed dying battery for the error.
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Old 27th June 2013, 15:32   #62
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Default Re: Fiat Linea T-Jet: Battery dead? Or something else?

When you start the car the voltage across battery terminal should be >13.5volts .
If lower check alternator belts , fuse (of main wire coming from alternator) , alternator.Else battery is the problem.
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Old 28th June 2013, 09:55   #63
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Default Re: Battery / Alternator / Voltage Regulator problem?

Update - I visited Wasan Motors, Kandivali yesterday. Car started showing signs of stalling just before I reached there (horn weak, loss of power etc). The technician came and without checking anything, he concluded that battery is dead. We tried to crank the car, but by now battery was totally flat. According to him, it is next to impossible for the alternator to fail in Linea. I requested him a couple of times to at least check the wiring and alternator, but he was way too confident that there's no other issue than the battery.

I got a new Amaron battery fitted and yes, the battery light did go away. I drove home (~6 kms) without any issue. I was happy that it was a minor issue.

However the light returned to haunt me in the evening! It came on again and would not turn off. Thankfully this time, the BCM (Car+Lock sign) light didnt come on, which means the battery is not the culprit.

Has someone else in Mumbai faced this issue? I need to know which FASS to take to. The technician at Wasan was (over) confident and had he checked the alternator/wiring yesterday, so much trouble could have been avoided.
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Old 2nd July 2013, 23:12   #64
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Default Re: Battery / Alternator / Voltage Regulator problem?

So guys here's the update. I spoke to Wasan Motors on Monday (yesterday) and was told that the alternator has indeed conked off. Since Tata-Fiat have parted ways, no existing service centers have been keeping spare parts in stock. Moreover, alternator is a part that rarely conks off so it was not available across any dealer in Mumbai. They have ordered it from Ranjangaon and the same is expected to reach them by tomorrow (Wed). I hope to have the car back either tomorrow or Thursday.

Please tell me what all to check while taking delivery? Ideally they should connect a multi-meter to see the voltage at rest and at crank right? What should be the figures in both cases?


After this, my next battle would be to seek reimbursement for the new battery that I was made to buy without first checking on my wiring/electricals/alternator. Any help here from forum members would be highly appreciated!


Why I'm surprised is because I narrated all the symptoms to the workshop in detail and persuaded him to check the above. But still he insisted on replacing the battery, because you know, according to them, THEY have never heard of a failing alternator in Fiat. Hence, concluded that alternator can never conk off. Never mind the fact that popping open the bonnet and basic checking *might* have yielded a different diagnosis!
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Old 2nd July 2013, 23:28   #65
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Default Re: Battery / Alternator / Voltage Regulator problem?

Gross negligence and overconfidence. Any mechanic can tell you what is at fault. Even if a battery has died, voltage when engine is running will be <14v. After the car is switched off, this starts dropping and can fall below 12v, which indicates it isnt holding charge.

They could have at least swapped the battery and checked. Do raise this issue and demand some sort of compensation or reimbursement for making you spend money on what was not the solution.
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Old 3rd July 2013, 11:54   #66
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Default Re: Battery / Alternator / Voltage Regulator problem?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nishantgandhi View Post
After this, my next battle would be to seek reimbursement for the new battery that I was made to buy without first checking on my wiring/electricals/alternator.
Do you have any battery diagnosis receipt of your old battery? If so, you can still use that to talk to them about your old battery wasn't bad. And the new one you have been given isn't really needed. But if they come back to you as sir, your battery also needed replacement and should have done that too, you would be left with no option as you can't prove it now. If you still have the old battery with you (which i doubt), all you can say to garage is "take your battery back and let me put mine in". Simply reverse the transaction. And do this before you pay for the alternator replacement job. Because most likely they wont be abel to reverse the transaction but should be able to adjust the payment in the new job!

In any case, you should still make "noise" with your service advisor and if he/she does not agree, escalate it.

Hope this helps.
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Old 3rd July 2013, 13:04   #67
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Default Re: Battery / Alternator / Voltage Regulator problem?

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Originally Posted by audioholic View Post
Gross negligence and overconfidence. Any mechanic can tell you what is at fault. Even if a battery has died, voltage when engine is running will be <14v. After the car is switched off, this starts dropping and can fall below 12v, which indicates it isnt holding charge.

They could have at least swapped the battery and checked. Do raise this issue and demand some sort of compensation or reimbursement for making you spend money on what was not the solution.
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Originally Posted by abirnale View Post
Do you have any battery diagnosis receipt of your old battery? If so, you can still use that to talk to them about your old battery wasn't bad. And the new one you have been given isn't really needed. But if they come back to you as sir, your battery also needed replacement and should have done that too, you would be left with no option as you can't prove it now. If you still have the old battery with you (which i doubt), all you can say to garage is "take your battery back and let me put mine in". Simply reverse the transaction. And do this before you pay for the alternator replacement job. Because most likely they wont be abel to reverse the transaction but should be able to adjust the payment in the new job!

In any case, you should still make "noise" with your service advisor and if he/she does not agree, escalate it.

Hope this helps.
I have the written service visit form from Exide BatMobile which states specific gravity 11.5v and 'Battery OK, self start'. I guess that's proof enough?

The mechanic and Works Manager at Wasan were trying to blame all and sundry! They even went to the extent of saying that Amaron battery is the culprit (despite being brand new) since it is not 'recommended' by Fiat. Had I installed an Exide, this problem would have never occurred!

His second stupid statement was - the battery is wrongly installed! (***?) According to him, the Amaron guy must have briefly swapped the negative and positive terminals which has shorted the alternator. I really could not believe what kind of jokers these people are!
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Old 3rd July 2013, 13:43   #68
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Default Re: Battery / Alternator / Voltage Regulator problem?

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Originally Posted by nishantgandhi View Post
I have the written service visit form from Exide BatMobile which states specific gravity 11.5v and 'Battery OK, self start'. I guess that's proof enough?
Yes, it should be great!

Quote:
Originally Posted by nishantgandhi View Post
The mechanic and Works Manager at Wasan were trying to blame all and sundry! They even went to the extent of saying that Amaron battery is the culprit (despite being brand new) since it is not 'recommended' by Fiat. Had I installed an Exide, this problem would have never occurred!

His second stupid statement was - the battery is wrongly installed! (***?) According to him, the Amaron guy must have briefly swapped the negative and positive terminals which has shorted the alternator. I really could not believe what kind of jokers these people are!
ROFL... very funny! I am not sure if there is some T&C apply asterisk on your any manuals, or warranty contracts , but ideally any battery of specific certification/ approval mechanism should work. It actually does not matter whether you use Exide or Amaron, IMHO. And about terminal swapping, Its a joke. I don't think a BatMobile personnel will do anything like this! Shouldn't it smoke few things here and there if it was wrongly connected/ installed?

I suggest you to stick to simple argument - no problem sir, give me my old battery, it was good. I just don't want yours. Having not owned any Fiat Or Tata vehicle i am not sure if you would be able to send some complaints up above this staff to gain attention. Like M&M customer always reach @AnandMahindra or their automotive chief Pawan Goenka through FB or Twitter.

All the best!
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Old 3rd July 2013, 14:31   #69
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Default Re: Battery / Alternator / Voltage Regulator problem?

Now who swapped the battery? Isn't it the FASS who did it? If so, they shouldn't stock amaron if it is not approved as per their stupid argument. Moreover, when they swapped the battery, it should have been their responsibility to ensure that the battery is at fault. When they didn't do either, it is their fault for the problem. Swapping battery terminals will not fry the alternator. It is like how parents warn kids not to attempt such things. It would have blown fuses or created more damage except reaching the alternator, as the RR unit wont allow reverse current.

If you got the battery changed independently, I dont think there is much that can be done.
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Old 3rd July 2013, 15:54   #70
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Default Re: Battery / Alternator / Voltage Regulator problem?

Quote:
Originally Posted by abirnale View Post
Yes, it should be great!



ROFL... very funny! I am not sure if there is some T&C apply asterisk on your any manuals, or warranty contracts , but ideally any battery of specific certification/ approval mechanism should work. It actually does not matter whether you use Exide or Amaron, IMHO. And about terminal swapping, Its a joke. I don't think a BatMobile personnel will do anything like this! Shouldn't it smoke few things here and there if it was wrongly connected/ installed?

I suggest you to stick to simple argument - no problem sir, give me my old battery, it was good. I just don't want yours. Having not owned any Fiat Or Tata vehicle i am not sure if you would be able to send some complaints up above this staff to gain attention. Like M&M customer always reach @AnandMahindra or their automotive chief Pawan Goenka through FB or Twitter.

All the best!
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioholic View Post
Now who swapped the battery? Isn't it the FASS who did it? If so, they shouldn't stock amaron if it is not approved as per their stupid argument. Moreover, when they swapped the battery, it should have been their responsibility to ensure that the battery is at fault. When they didn't do either, it is their fault for the problem. Swapping battery terminals will not fry the alternator. It is like how parents warn kids not to attempt such things. It would have blown fuses or created more damage except reaching the alternator, as the RR unit wont allow reverse current.

If you got the battery changed independently, I dont think there is much that can be done.
I think I wasn't clear. I got the battery changed from a battery shop, not Wasan. Two reasons:
1. Wasan was trying to palm off an Exide battery and that too, a much more expensive model
2. I anyway wanted Amaron whenever my OE Exide would have conked off

So my old battery is NOT with Wasan, but given to the Amaron dealer under exchange. However, my car was parked at Wasan all the while when the new battery arrived and was installed.

I went with the Amaron (and BatteryBhai) recommended model for Linea, so again that is no concern. I don't think any workshop can refuse warranty or reimbursement claim just because I didn't fill their coffers by buying battery from them! Such reasoning won't stand a chance if the matter is escalated.

I was standing right there and supervising the job, as is my habit. In fact I instructed the Amaron guys how to disconnect the negative and not to touch the ICE ground (connected to the positive). So there is no question of wrong connections.

Btw when I mentioned how the car would start if connections were wrong/swapped, the Works Manager says 'Sir it does start, take our word'. I was dumbstruck.

But I gave it back to him by asking him that if indeed Amaron guys were at fault, why did the original fault occur with the OE battery? The connections were proper for ~2 years no? He of course had no answer other than looking away.

Last edited by nishantgandhi : 3rd July 2013 at 15:56.
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Old 3rd July 2013, 16:37   #71
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Default Re: Battery / Alternator / Voltage Regulator problem?

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Originally Posted by nishantgandhi View Post
I got the battery changed from a battery shop, not Wasan.
Ahh... got you. But the whole point is you changed battery only because FASS suggested you to do so. And you have a proof that old battery was good. So you can still argue your case with FASS.

IMHO, Other than this, there isn't much you can do as end of the day its you who chose to hurriedly replace the battery.

Surprising that none of the battery folks who operated on your vehicle told you that battery is good and you should not change! I guess Amaron also was looking to make the quick sale
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Old 3rd July 2013, 16:40   #72
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Default Re: Battery / Alternator / Voltage Regulator problem?

Firstly, Let me state some facts to check the alternator. Will help others too who are facing similar problems.

Alternator Voltage at no load condition should be 14.4 volts, a little plus and minus here and there but this can be a benchmark. It should not be over 14.7 volts as then you would be overcharging the battery and hence ruining it. The car should be revved to check the voltages and made sure they do not increase to highish numbers even at mid or a little more than mid throttles.

Then at full load condition ( AC, music system, headlights), the charging should be between 13 to 14 volts. In modern ECU run cars that is the trend.

In a carburated 800, the figures will drop to around 12ish numbers at full load, but as long as it stays a little above 12, in these carburated vehicles, you are fine as the battery is still charging. Anything below 12 and you are not replenishing the battery with charging and will eventually discharge if all the accessories are kept on and the voltage remains below 12 for an X duration of time.

I hope this helps.
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Old 3rd July 2013, 18:51   #73
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Default Re: Battery / Alternator / Voltage Regulator problem?

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IMHO, Other than this, there isn't much you can do as end of the day its you who chose to hurriedly replace the battery.
Hurriedly? I guess you didnt read my story entirely. I literally requested the service center (3 people there, mind you!) to check everything else because the battery was already checked by Exide. But their collective confidence about alternator NEVER failing was hard to break. Hence, I had no choice other than to replace the battery.

And btw, I had to wait for a good 4 hours at Wasan for the battery to reach me because the particular model was out of stock across the suburbs.

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Surprising that none of the battery folks who operated on your vehicle told you that battery is good and you should not change! I guess Amaron also was looking to make the quick sale
Why would they be bothered? I am just another customer who called the battery shop and asked for a new battery. Yes, the guy from whom I bought was surprised that my OE battery went flat in less than 2 years. When I asked this question to Wasan, you know what he said?

'Sir, Linea is a very advanced car which has 8 ECUs. Hence the load on battery is huge and you are lucky it lasted for 2 years. Most OE Exides in Linea runs flat in1-1.5 years and that's why the company also gives only 18 months warranty on OE batteries'
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Old 3rd July 2013, 19:00   #74
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Hurriedly? I guess you didnt read my story entirely. I literally requested the service center (3 people there, mind you!) to check everything else because the battery was already checked by Exide. But their collective confidence about alternator NEVER failing was hard to break.
Probably not the right word I chose - "hurriedly". I should have said you had given up to their false confidence knowing already that your battery was fine. So I think it's hurried or loosing your patience for wait you had and simply going with what they said.
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Old 3rd July 2013, 19:38   #75
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Default Re: Battery / Alternator / Voltage Regulator problem?

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Probably not the right word I chose - "hurriedly". I should have said you had given up to their false confidence knowing already that your battery was fine. So I think it's hurried or loosing your patience for wait you had and simply going with what they said.
Well, all I can say in response is that I was pretty helpless. Car won't start so I cant drive to another workshop (of choice). Secondly in the absence of perfect information under my belt, I'm inclined to believe the FASS personnel, especially because my assumption is that they are more competent and have hand-on knowledge. Also I would like to believe they (must) have seen similar cases in the past.
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