Is this a Fraud?

[akbaree]

Like many others, I thought that the branded fuels sold by the Oil companies are 91 octane fuel and normal fuel is 87/88 octane fule. However, I decided to come out of my ignorant assumption and wrote to three major Oil companies - IOC, HP, and BP. The responses I got surprised me.

The GoI has different specifications for fuels that are BS II compliant and BS III compliant. Among other differences, one critical difference is the RON rating. The BS II specification specifies a RON of 87 and BS III specification specifies a RON of 91. I have BS III compliant Fiat Adventure and in the Owner's Manual it has been advised to use 91 Octane fuel.

Now coming to the responses I received from the afore mentioned Oil companies, all the Oil companies are selling BS III compliant fuel in metros and only some (4-5) of the A grade cities. I mean, this is ridiculous. I remember when I bought my Adventure in September 2005, there was 75K discount on BS II Palio because by end of September 2005 the RTO offices were instructed to stop registration of the BS II compliant cars and only register BS III compliant cars. It has been now three years, and still the Oil companies are selling BS III compliant fuel only in 8-10 cities.

What does this mean for our BS III complaint cars. They are running on BS II compliant fuel. Isn't it a fraud? I am not even sure if our BS III compliant cars have advanced knock off sensors to compensate the lower Octane fuel being sold in most of India. What does it mean for our engines?

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[dadu]

This is the current road map as per GOI policy, they are just following it.

[akbaree]

Why cars have a different road map? GoI advises to sell only BS III compliant cars but at the same time have a different road map for BS III compliant fuel availability. That's the whole thing.

And how our BS III compliant car engines are going to respond to this low Octane fuel?

[dadu]

Its a staggered approach and decided by the Ministry along with the Manufacturers body i.e. SIAM.

No doubt the cars will underperform, low FE etc.

[Shashank.A]

BS III cars are mandatory is some cities only, and I guess those are the cities where compatible fuel is being sold. For eg, Bolero 4WD is not BSIII compliant, and cannot be registered in Delhi. But it can be registered in Gurgaon or any other area where BS III is not mandatory.

So there is no fraud in it, simple business. BS III fuel in cities where it is required and BS II where it is not.

[hrsraghav]

Originally Posted by Shashank.A

BS III cars are mandatory is some cities only, and I guess those are the cities where compatible fuel is being sold. For eg, Bolero 4WD is not BSIII compliant, and cannot be registered in Delhi. But it can be registered in Gurgaon or any other area where BS III is not mandatory.

So there is no fraud in it, simple business. BS III fuel in cities where it is required and BS II where it is not.

Correction Buddy, In gurgaon also you need to have BSIII compliant car to get it registered with gurgaon no.

[akbaree]

I don't have any statistics, but I believe almost all the cars sold today are BS III compiant. People, please correct me if my assumption is incorrect. Why will manufacturers manufacture two set of cars.

Moreover, when you are travelling, you don't have option other than fuelling BS II compliant fuel unless you have the hand picked cities in vicinity.

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by Shashank.A

BS III cars are mandatory is some cities only, and I guess those are the cities where compatible fuel is being sold. For eg, Bolero 4WD is not BSIII compliant, and cannot be registered in Delhi. But it can be registered in Gurgaon or any other area where BS III is not mandatory.

So there is no fraud in it, simple business. BS III fuel in cities where it is required and BS II where it is not.

I doubt you can buy brand new BS-II cars as cars are sold with the same state of tune all over India.
So when you buy SX4 it does not matter whether you buy it in Rishikesh or New Delhi, you will get same vehicle.
Only different is that you can buy BS-II old stock, like Ford Ikon Diesel 1.8D from the dealer in small cities.

In the late nineties when first time Bharat norms came, a lot of stock of esteem, M800 etc., which were carburetted was lying with Delhi dealers.
But they could not sell there, and hence the price of carb esteem dropped to new lows in Pb because the stock was offloaded here, with huge discounts.

[Shashank.A]

But Raghav, Gurgaon is part of Haryana and gets a HR number plate. The dealer on Gurgoan said that Bolero 4WD can be registered there. Might be some misunderstanding on my part.

[cyneverdie]

So Banglore gets BS 2 fuel ?!!? Thats suprising , in Mumbai been BS 3 for a while.

Any idea on Belgaum , Karnataka anyone??Been here a while.

[dadu]

Read my post above, by 2010 you will get Euro/BSIII fuel across india, till then its only the major cities, bangalore is included, whole karnataka is not covered. Even ppl filling up in adjoining places like hosur,TN, to save some cost, might be filling BSII fuel.

Originally Posted by cyneverdie

So Banglore gets BS 2 fuel ?!!? Thats suprising , in Mumbai been BS 3 for a while.

Any idea on Belgaum , Karnataka anyone??Been here a while.

[greenhorn]

will there be any damage to BS3 engines running on BS2 fuel, especially the cat con?

[dadu]

BSII has more sulphur, just on the margin before it can cause any damage.

More sediments and lesser octane/ cetane rating.

Nett nett, purity is lesser. Performance of Engines tuned to BSIII will suffer under BSII fuel.

[condor]

akbaree : .. I believe almost all the cars sold today are BS III compiant. .... Why will manufacturers manufacture two set of cars.

It's going to be the same car that is being manufactured and sold across the country. The compliance by the cars are to BS-III (or BS-II) emission norms. The one thing that can change between the BS-II & BS-III compliant cars is the exhaust system - cat-con, EGR .. The rest of the car should be the same.

If the BS-III fuel has a higher RON, it will also need a higher compression ratio. Any such changes (compression ratio etc) will mean that the manufacturing process will get a little more complex, to start producing cars for metros & non-metros.

Now, what are the other differences between BS-II & BS-III fuels ?

Also, the oil companies will need a little time to complete any required changes in their manufacturing process to produce only BS-III fuel. Till such changes are completed, the oil co's product mix will be a combination of BS-II and BS-III. The BS-II fuel can be used for the Category II & III cities till then.

But then, I dont think any of us will bet on the govt completing these changes ahead of time, right ? These people will take their own time, to do things separately & without synergy between related components, sufficiently complicate things, and make the usual mess before they complete it.

[Shashank.A]

Its bit confusing for me. Given the various points raised in this threads, lets take two things are given :-

1. Most of the cars sold in India are not BS III compliant and are sold with same compliance all across the country.

2. Barring some cities, everywhere else only BSII diesel is available.

But now, if we take into consideration that more often than not, people who have to drive extensively on highways are the ones who prefer Diesel cars. Maybe it be frequent tarvellers, taxi drivers, tour operators etc. So this means that most of the cars end up consuming copious amounts of BSII fuel, even if they are registered in cities with BSIII compatibility. And the cars which are sold in places with anyhow only have BSII fuel also consume the 'inferior' fuel as the cars are BSIII.

This should mean that most of the cars should have one problem for the other, but I donot think this is the case, otherwise we would have heard about a common problem from all diesel car owners.