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Old 30th September 2008, 10:40   #1
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Default Alto,Lets go but a little faster

I have had the likes for an alto since very long,loved the cute looks along with the better ground clearance than the zen(the pre estillo one)

The AC of the alto is to die for,super big,super cool and eats super engine power
With The AC in this beast on,The car becomes a total bullock cart and yes people this conclusion was reached with long drives in relatives alto.
Yes the cooling is awesome but there should be a balance between performance and cooling your heels inside the passenger cabin.

Wanted to think of something which can make the passengers happy as well the driver happy in a balance.

So after some online research came upon the conclusion that alto has a 117 cc compressor and the zen ( pre estillo) has a 80 cc compressor.

Since I currently drive the zen I know that its compressor eats way less power than the alto does and its AC is considerably good too although not as good as an alto and yes I know the zen is 13 bhp more than the alto.

So since the AC of the zen is good,the compressor is of a smaller size why not get the zens 80 CC compressor in the Alto ?

I ll keep the cabin cool,eat less of engine power,better mileage.The advantages are to look for.
So guys what do u think?Possible?

Last edited by humyum : 30th September 2008 at 10:42.
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Old 30th September 2008, 10:45   #2
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A topic after my heart! I will wait for the gurus to enlighten us, before I plunge in with my two bits. But while we are at it, what are the other things we can do to eke the last inch of power out from this cute little car?
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Old 30th September 2008, 10:46   #3
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1st thing - It may void your warranty.
2nd thing - You may need to alter/change the alternator too.

Maruti must have researched of their own and putted new and powerful 117 cc compressor rather then the old 80cc compressor, so why do another research over their research.
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Old 30th September 2008, 10:52   #4
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Hi HumYum, nice idea Do let us know how this turns out...

You could also check to see if you could fit a bigger pulley on the existing compressor so that it's driven at a lower speed - engine load can be reduced this way too.
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Old 30th September 2008, 11:25   #5
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I am not sure of how much difference a smaller compressor will make, after all the difference between the 80cc and 110cc compressor will only be 1 - 1.5 BHP in terms of power utilized. Also, the older Zen had a 1.0 liter engine. Presuming that you are talking about the 800cc Alto (and not the 1.1), that's another reason why you feel a lesser load in the Zen.

A better solution will be getting some basic power mods on your Alto. Good exhaust, porting & polishing etc. will noticeably improve performance.
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Old 30th September 2008, 14:29   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
I am not sure of how much difference a smaller compressor will make, after all the difference between the 80cc and 110cc compressor will only be 1 - 1.5 BHP in terms of power utilized. Also, the older Zen had a 1.0 liter engine. Presuming that you are talking about the 800cc Alto (and not the 1.1), that's another reason why you feel a lesser load in the Zen.

A better solution will be getting some basic power mods on your Alto. Good exhaust, porting & polishing etc. will noticeably improve performance.
The difference between the 80 cc compressor and the 117cc compressor is 27 cc.Although its not much but at crusing speeds say of 100 kmph the Alto engine is not developing the entire 47bhp and might be around 30 bhp(assumption) i have no perfect figures for this as i dont have the dyno graph.
So if the advantage in the HP figure is around 2 bhp i would say thats like a 6.33% Advantage in terms of power as well as efficeincy which i think will make the car considerbly peppy.
Also had called the Subros guy in pune just now,and spoke to him about this.He said the system is balanced according to the compressor size and only changing the compressor wont work, u ll need to change the evaporator and a few other things for which we will need to do R & D and it wont work just like that.
For the other part of it, i have heard people changing their compressors with bigger compressors in the 800 minus any glich so how can it not be possible the other way around?
PS: i dont own an alto guys, it was just a random thought that entered my head.I have a zen.

Last edited by humyum : 30th September 2008 at 14:31.
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Old 30th September 2008, 14:50   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by humyum View Post
Also had called the Subros guy in pune just now,and spoke to him about this.He said the system is balanced according to the compressor size and only changing the compressor wont work, u ll need to change the evaporator and a few other things for which we will need to do R & D and it wont work just like that.
For the other part of it, i have heard people changing their compressors with bigger compressors in the 800 minus any glich so how can it not be possible the other way around?
PS: i dont own an alto guys, it was just a random thought that entered my head.I have a zen.

The subros guy is right. Since there are 2 types of gases running around (134/R12), there are 2 types of AC systems as well. The old Zens used the older system while the new Alto uses the newer one (R12 ?). If you change the compressor type, you need to change the whole system.
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Old 30th September 2008, 15:02   #8
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I have alto with all pros and cons.
Still i will not consider in changing compressor as ac is too good.
Ac cause remarkable fall in pickup but i have learned engine power management by switching ac on and off quickly during overtake.
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Old 30th September 2008, 16:09   #9
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Forget the Ac compressor swap. It's a big job and certainly not worth it.
As of now, the Ac in Alto is one of the biggest attractions. And any alteration of it's compressor will definitely have some negative impact on it.

Get a good air filter and a free flow exhaust kit. That will solve all the small pickup issues and will cost less than the Ac job.
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Old 30th September 2008, 16:58   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedzak View Post
Get a good air filter and a free flow exhaust kit. That will solve all the small pickup issues and will cost less than the Ac job.
AC compressor swap will indeed be messy and not worth it. BY adding a FFE and airfilter you will get better improvement with and without ac compared to smaller AC unit.
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Old 30th September 2008, 17:03   #11
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Why not plonk a wagonR engine in it? 1.1L Alto's are pretty quick off the mark.

Any idea of the cost involved?
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Old 6th October 2008, 18:12   #12
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Originally Posted by n_aditya View Post
Why not plonk a wagonR engine in it? 1.1L Alto's are pretty quick off the mark.

Any idea of the cost involved?
The WagonR's engine is not exactly a powerful engine. It was designed for a tallboy car. I would prefer to plonk a Zen 1.0 Litre engine instead.
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Old 6th October 2008, 18:48   #13
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Wow!... what discussion are we having here!...

Let me start with the Ac compressor....
  • I clearly remember reading .. that zen's Ac compressor was made to run at higher speed by maruti by changing the pulley size as compared to the original type I .. carb zen.

    So it would not make any difference to change the compressor even if you want to keep the cooling to zen's level, unless you want to go into the 96 model zen's setup.
  • Even zen uses the (R12? ) i.e. the cfc free ac gas... as the old one was banned in India in the year 2000. And the gases are interchangable... at least the new one is backward compatible.
  • You can not compare a 800cc engine with a 1L zen engine... specially when there is a difference of 1 cylinder between the two.
  • If there was an easy was to put in WagonR's engine ... you'll not regret that!...
esteem_lover - the cc.. the bhp... the torque... .. is there any other way to measure how powerful an engine is?

And how does one design an engine for a tall boy?... BTW.. that engine was first seen (as far as I know) in Suzuki's zen (our Alto 1.1) world-wide.. before it was ever put into the wagonR in india.

Last edited by SLK : 6th October 2008 at 18:50.
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Old 6th October 2008, 19:03   #14
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I was told the 1.1 engine swaps into the alto easily. dont know how true that is. anyone who's done it? the original Alto 1.1 is rare as hen's teeth these days.
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Old 6th October 2008, 20:19   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedzak View Post

Get a good air filter and a free flow exhaust kit. That will solve all the small pickup issues and will cost less than the Ac job.
My vote.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vid6639 View Post
AC compressor swap will indeed be messy and not worth it. BY adding a FFE and airfilter you will get better improvement with and without ac compared to smaller AC unit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by n_aditya View Post
Why not plonk a wagonR engine in it? 1.1L Alto's are pretty quick off the mark.

Any idea of the cost involved?
Quote:
Originally Posted by rippergeo View Post
I was told the 1.1 engine swaps into the alto easily. dont know how true that is. anyone who's done it? the original Alto 1.1 is rare as hen's teeth these days.
Plonking will be costly and you will need to source stuffs.

Spend 15k max for the filter and FFE.
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