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Old 11th October 2008, 15:34   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by humyum View Post
I think its perfectly normal,Amount of oxygen content in the enviornment,Outside temperature affect the overall functioning of the engine.
I feel the same in my zen too and used to feel it in my 800 too.It was never the same always.The throttle response the acceleration varied from one time to another.
For example the zen somtimes pulls effortlessly in 4rd gear from 40 with enough acceleration to please me and sometimes i have to downshift to 3rd.
Some people observe this minute acceleration difference and some people dont.
If there a pressure difference of 1 or 2 psi in any of my tyres i know for sure that air needs to be checked,The vehicles handles a tad different and thats super keen observation,so i guess thats the same with you.
yes you have got it perfect i face the same problem. sometimes my alto pulls effortlessly in 3rd gear and sometimes i need to shift to 2nd.
and i am a very critical and keen observer. so now i think nothing can be done with it right as the oxygen sensor signals and other sensors cannot be altered with
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Old 11th October 2008, 19:43   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by menas_136 View Post
sometimes when the engine-oil becomes heated up, it becomes thinner. when it becomes too thin, it normally stops doing its job of lubrication and there is some friction generated in the engine which will make your car underperform. This you will notice mostly during long drives only.
Hi menas_136,

The problem that you mentioned here is quite likely to happen to when driven in stop-and-go city traffic.

When on a long drive on the highway, the speeds are high (70-80+KMPH) and also there is a constant airflow thru the raidiator is much better so the car should not overheat if the cooling system is functioning properly..

Another analogy to understand this better would be to look at Formula 1 cars. Their cars cooling systems perform optimally when at full throttle and at high speed with air flowing thru the radiators.

They usually end up with overheating problems and ultimately engine blow ups when wither standing stationery for a long time or when following the safety car.

Do give me your inputs on this.

Cheers,

gpa

Quote:
Originally Posted by humyum View Post
I think its perfectly normal,Amount of oxygen content in the enviornment,Outside temperature affect the overall functioning of the engine.
You are absolutely spot on with this.. Yes, the ambient temperatures do affect the performance of the engine to a very large extent. I've noticed that when driving on the highways in the night, the engine just feels to be performing a lot better than when driven in the day when the ambient temperatures are 35+ degrees celsius.

This is mainly to do with the fact that the ambient temperature of the air at night is lower and hence the engine performs better.

The change in performance is quite perceptible if you are an experienced driver.

Cheers,

gpa

Note from the Team-BHP Support Staff : Please use the "edit" button if posting within 15 minutes of the first post, instead of creating another back-to-back post

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Last edited by Technocrat : 13th October 2008 at 11:48. Reason: See note in post
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Old 12th October 2008, 10:58   #18
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Hi Amit,

The issue I think is with AC, Alto is a car which is very sensitive to AC. The Load with and without AC may prove to be a lot difference in performance.
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Old 12th October 2008, 13:36   #19
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check following thing.
1] if one of cylinder is misfiring.
2] if black smoke or carbon is present at exaust pipe at rear of car.
3] if answer for step 2 is yes, then check the engine knocking by removing one by one spark plug wires during engine on condition. if engine knocks immediately after removing one by one each of three spark plug wire, then its ok. if engine do not knock at suppose cylinder no 2, then its surely valve problem.
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Old 12th October 2008, 23:12   #20
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Well as suggested i also changed the fuel filter, but i dint even find a 1% change in the behavior.

i dont think the cylinder misfires. also there is not valve tappet noise. if it was so it shouldnt be that it runs fast on day 1 and slow on day2.

i think its moreover to do with some or the other sensor which produces a certain different map in the ECU and for that period it runs slow and when the map is changed by ECU feedback system my car runs faster.
can this be checked on tech1 by connecting it with ECU ?

Note: Mods can u please change the thread topic to " Strange Behavior with Alto, Experts intervention needed"
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Old 13th October 2008, 09:30   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpa View Post
Hi menas_136,

The problem that you mentioned here is quite likely to happen to when driven in stop-and-go city traffic.

When on a long drive on the highway, the speeds are high (70-80+KMPH) and also there is a constant airflow thru the raidiator is much better so the car should not overheat if the cooling system is functioning properly..

Another analogy to understand this better would be to look at Formula 1 cars. Their cars cooling systems perform optimally when at full throttle and at high speed with air flowing thru the radiators.

They usually end up with overheating problems and ultimately engine blow ups when wither standing stationery for a long time or when following the safety car.

Do give me your inputs on this.

Cheers,

gpa
Hi gpa,

I think you are a fanatic F1 follower . i am too much into the sport too. As for your reasons i agree, but the main problems the F1 cars face during a pit stop or following a safety car is Tyre temperature and overheated brakes (bcoz of no air flow thru ducts). Its a bit same with the engine too, but i want to reframe your claims as follows:

i agree the cooling systems works more efficient when at high speeds, but that will never mean that the engine temp will be cooler at high speeds than during a pit stop or a safety car period. bcoz the more speed the car goes the more efficient the cooling system, but at the same time, the engine temp also becomes too higher at that revs (19000 aprox). pls correct me if i am wrong .

And for the performance difference during long drives:

i normally drive down my car (accent) from hyderabad to native (kerala) nearly 1100 kms non-stop. The engine temperature indicator does not even move a bit and it shows normal, but yes, the engine does underperform. You can feel this once you come down to low speeds and then again try to reach 100-140 kmph. This is more in the day than during night. But yes i agree, you need to be a super keen observer to notice this.

Hi amit,

sorry to have steered away frm the main topic here. i also wanted to say that the "the engine performs difference due to external factors is inversely proportional to the engine capacity".
to simplify this: the lower the car/engine spec, higher is the difference that you will feel. And higher the car/engine spec the lesser is the difference that you will feel.
I only said this because, if you had been driving a c-segmenter or a d-segmenter before and suddenly moved on to the ALTO, then you may have this phsycological feeling because you feel more difference.
but I guess this is not the problem here, since you are pretty sure with the difference. And as you said it could also be the ECU behaviour. Talk to the dealer or to a real expert.

But before you get into this, try changing the K&N to the normal factory fitted one, incase you have the spare.
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Old 14th October 2008, 11:07   #22
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Hi guys, even i face the same problem in my 2002 MPFI Zen.
Not just the engine seems to be peppy some of the days, but also the horn.
On the days the engine behaves sluggish, the horn also responds in a weak manner.

Being an electronic engineer, I feel that this has got something to do with the battery!!!

MechEngg plz post ur observations on the horn part as well.
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Old 14th October 2008, 12:14   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yogeshnagpal View Post
Hi guys, even i face the same problem in my 2002 MPFI Zen.
Not just the engine seems to be peppy some of the days, but also the horn.
On the days the engine behaves sluggish, the horn also responds in a weak manner.

Being an electronic engineer, I feel that this has got something to do with the battery!!!

MechEngg plz post ur observations on the horn part as well.
it is weird that or horn sings in harmony with the engine. well i think its an alternator effect. if your horn has grown older then i suggest u to spray zorik switch spray onto your horn. the coils and windings get cleaned up.

this things happen with my bike. it has all to do with the altenator. my horn was sounding weird. the horn repairwala sprayed ZORIK spray onto it and within 5 min the horn sounded brand new.

i think its time for engine experts like VIPER and other personnels to creep in. and i think experts will creep in only when the
mods change the thread title to " Strange Behavior with Alto's powerhouse, Experts intervention needed"

Last edited by amit_mechengg : 14th October 2008 at 12:16.
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Old 14th October 2008, 13:01   #24
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Oxygen content in the air?

Ok, maybe this is a hint. Everyone here feels this problem on MPFI cars only?

Just a guess but this try for the next 4-5 days, before you start driving your car (before you MOVE it) ensure that the engine temp is at the level it normally is in a running car AND the idle rpm is 800 (i.e. completely relaxed). Now you don't even have to turn on the AC before you actually move.

My guess is that till you follow this procedure, you'll always feel the car slower (not zooming).

try this and let us know.

As far as I know from my experience with Marutis (I still have 3 of them), there is this BUG in the cold start system that keeps the car revving high for eternity if you don't let it idle at the start.
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Old 14th October 2008, 13:19   #25
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Quote:
there is this BUG in the cold start system that keeps the car revving high for eternity if you don't let it idle at the start.
This aint a bug, the ECU keeps the revs high until the engine comes to operating temperatures. Remember in the good old carb engines we had to pull choke lever during cold starts, thats what is being done automatically by the ECU.
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Old 14th October 2008, 13:19   #26
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From your posts it appears to be a malfunctioning exhaust gas recirclulation valve which is there on all BSIII cars. To improve emissions BSIII cars are equipped with a EGR valve which recirculates exhaust gas into the inlet manifold till full combustion is achieved. If this valve gets defective then it adversely affects performance as a certain amount of fresh fuel/air mixture has to come in. Take it to a authorised Maruti workshop and ask them to ensure the EGR is working fine.
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Old 14th October 2008, 13:29   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technocrat View Post
This aint a bug, the ECU keeps the revs high until the engine comes to operating temperatures. Remember in the good old carb engines we had to pull choke lever during cold starts, thats what is being done automatically by the ECU.
Hello!. please read my post again. I literally meant eternity

The BUG is that even after the engine heats up, it keeps revving at 12-1500rpm. And that is a BUG. I have a NHC too which revvs easy after the engine is warm, even when the car is being driven.
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Old 14th October 2008, 13:32   #28
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@amit_mechengg

Elsewhere in tbhp there is a thread that deals with Basic ECM resetting

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...resetting.html (Basic ECM Resetting)

You might want to try this.
Disconnect the battery for say 15 minutes and ride on.
Do read the thread.

Also, a friend of mine had similar issues in his 2003 M800.
There is a black plastic (water purifier look alike) thingy, its for collecting the vapor from the fuel or something like that. This can happen it that thingy gets blocked. You might want to check that too.
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Old 14th October 2008, 13:32   #29
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Quote:
The BUG is that even after the engine heats up, it keeps revving at 12-1500rpm. And that is a BUG.
Oh ok but I have never faced this in any of our Family Maruti cars.
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Old 14th October 2008, 13:42   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKG View Post
From your posts it appears to be a malfunctioning exhaust gas recirclulation valve which is there on all BSIII cars. To improve emissions BSIII cars are equipped with a EGR valve which recirculates exhaust gas into the inlet manifold till full combustion is achieved. If this valve gets defective then it adversely affects performance as a certain amount of fresh fuel/air mixture has to come in. Take it to a authorised Maruti workshop and ask them to ensure the EGR is working fine.
Is this the same for BS II models , mine is BS II. does the EGR need general cleaning/ servicing ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by yzfrj View Post
@amit_mechengg


Also, a friend of mine had similar issues in his 2003 M800.
There is a black plastic (water purifier look alike) thingy, its for collecting the vapor from the fuel or something like that. This can happen it that thingy gets blocked. You might want to check that too.
where is this black plastic located please can u specify ?
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