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Old 9th October 2009, 15:59   #76
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People seem unable to accept that we do not add additive to increase the boiling point.
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Old 9th October 2009, 18:19   #77
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Originally Posted by sudharma View Post
BTW I collect the water when my fridge is defrosted and use this water for topping up Battery and preparing coolant.
I won't assume that is as good as distilled water, although it has come from condensing vapor. what about other contaminants?
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Old 9th October 2009, 21:09   #78
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...
You don't use 100% coolant in the radiator because the boiling point of coolant is much higher than the coolant mixture and your engine will be running at a much higher temperature.
Sudharma, your sense of humour is beyond reproach!
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Old 9th October 2009, 21:30   #79
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Once upon a time, we had batteries that needed to be topped up --- with distilled water.

Once upon a time, we did not have sealed cooling systems; there was a cap on top of the radiator, and if we could not see the water level we topped it up with tap water. In the winter, we added anti-freeze.

I think some people have got their history a bit mixed up?
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Old 10th October 2009, 09:38   #80
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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
Once upon a time, we had batteries that needed to be topped up --- with distilled water.

Once upon a time, we did not have sealed cooling systems; there was a cap on top of the radiator, and if we could not see the water level we topped it up with tap water. In the winter, we added anti-freeze.

I think some people have got their history a bit mixed up?
Yes, remember the trips that I have made in my trusty old Premier Padmini and the number of pit stops we used to make to check and top up the radiator ! The old Ambassadors were also plagued with the same topup routine although their system then was better than that of the Padmini's. Got my car modified later when the PP S1 model came out in the mid 90's with the new sealed system of coolant and the overflow bottle ! Had to change the radiator too as it could not take the pressure and cracked open !
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Old 10th October 2009, 10:42   #81
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Default 100% glycol

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Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
@sudarma: What we call coolant is called Anti-Freeze in the rest of the world. The best ratio is about 63% Anti Freeze where the freezing point f the mixture is below -50C.

You can refer to

Don't Fill Her Up with Antifreeze, Alaska Science Forum


As for the mixture in India we have to look at the best ratio for minimum Glycol and adequate protection from corrosion, etc. wich appears to be about 30%> Hnece 1:2 is a good easy ratio to remember.
I agree with you. Is it not better to be on the safer side?.
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Old 10th October 2009, 10:52   #82
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Default Radiator Coolant.

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Originally Posted by vivekiny2k View Post
I won't assume that is as good as distilled water, although it has come from condensing vapor. what about other contaminants?
The defrosted water is from the freezer and is mostly moisture so there should not be any contaminants inside the freezer compartment.The experts say that the best and cheap distilled water available is rain water collected a few minutes after the rain has started. Rain water is atmospeheric moisture condensed. And what do you think they sell as distilled water for topping up the batteries in most of the petrol pumps?

BTW I am using water from "Zero-B" Pristine water purifier unit now.
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Old 10th October 2009, 11:02   #83
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People seem unable to accept that we do not add additive to increase the boiling point.
What I actually meant was "100% Glycol" and not coolant as reply to some one's question "why not use 100% coolant". Anything you use to cool some thing is a coolant.
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Old 10th October 2009, 15:53   #84
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Hi Racoon,

Yes, you are correct in saying the issue is not significant. When the MSM guys told me this after the fill-up, I was not convinced. I am as devious as they come and always cross check what one MASS guy says with another. So off I went to the work shop of ABT Maruti who sold the car to me, and narrated the matter to the works manager there. He also said the same thing, that it will suffice to flush/re-fill at the 20K KM/2 year service.

Significantly, even when I offerred to pay for the coolant change, both of them persuaded me it was not necessary at this stage and not to waste money. As for believing in big names, yes, you have to trust somebody. Especially when he declines a payment which the customer is willing to make!
Gansan your above episode reminds me of the time when I was middle aged

Actually tap water will not damage the components as the impurities would have to be at very high concentration to clog the channels. You can forget about the rust part as none of the components in the current day car cooling systems are made out of iron, save for the water pump. Nowadays even in the pump only the nonwetted part *read casing* is iron. What could be harmful though is the so called distilled water. I say so as these days most of the battery distilled water is souped up with acid in trace amounts. Just enough so that when you pour it into your inverter battery it allows for quicker chemical reaction. While this is great for the battery water manufacturers sales it is certainly not good for the cooling system.

The water to use is the defrost water from your fridge or the water that your a/c (both heat exchange devices) lets out. The best of course is tap water no hassles at all.

Another point that caught my eye while going through this thread is that people are talking about opening or topping up via the radiator caps( excluding the gentlemen with the padmini & old gen civic and alike). For top ups please use the plastic bottle reservoir, the level marks are for that purpose. The radiator cap is best left for the times when you are getting the system flushed, repaired etc etc.

As for the chemistry between the glycol and water enough has been written and it makes for interesting reading. All I will say is our cars like it mixed neither shaken nor stirred.
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Old 10th October 2009, 16:05   #85
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khoj,

Its a normal practice that while topping up, both the radiator & the coolant container are topped up....i really dont understand why this was being done though only the container needs to be topped,

While i did raise this point at my spouse's car service centre, i was proved wrong twice, when the guy opened the radiator cap and showed me the fins of it, saying that the water in the radiator evaporates so its is compulsory to top up the radiator.

what do we say ?
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Old 10th October 2009, 16:25   #86
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Originally Posted by khoj View Post
Gansan your above episode reminds me of the time when I was middle aged

Actually tap water will not damage the components as the impurities would have to be at very high concentration to clog the channels. You can forget about the rust part as none of the components in the current day car cooling systems are made out of iron, save for the water pump. Nowadays even in the pump only the nonwetted part *read casing* is iron. What could be harmful though is the so called distilled water. I say so as these days most of the battery distilled water is souped up with acid in trace amounts. Just enough so that when you pour it into your inverter battery it allows for quicker chemical reaction. While this is great for the battery water manufacturers sales it is certainly not good for the cooling system.

The water to use is the defrost water from your fridge or the water that your a/c (both heat exchange devices) lets out. The best of course is tap water no hassles at all.
Thanks for that info. I also had this doubt about battery distilled water, so am still hesitating to use it for filling my wind screen washer tank. But the distilled water I buy is from a brand called "Diet Aqua" who also make packaged drinking water. The label says "for use in automobile industry,batteries and laboratories". I have tasted it and could not find any acid after taste,but still...I use it only for the inverter battery!

Incidentally the water the MASS guys used to top up the coolant bottle was normal drinking water. The water from A/C is a good idea, thanks for the tip. I will arrange to collect it or some rain water and keep a five litre can handy!
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Old 10th October 2009, 16:38   #87
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Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
The label says "for use in automobile industry,batteries and laboratories". I have tasted it and could not find any acid after taste,but still...I use it only for the inverter battery!
You are a very brave man and now you are sounding like you are my age. Youngish
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Old 10th October 2009, 17:41   #88
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khoj,

Its a normal practice that while topping up, both the radiator & the coolant container are topped up....i really dont understand why this was being done though only the container needs to be topped,

While i did raise this point at my spouse's car service centre, i was proved wrong twice, when the guy opened the radiator cap and showed me the fins of it, saying that the water in the radiator evaporates so its is compulsory to top up the radiator.

what do we say ?
No you are not wrong, the system is designed so that you the consumer is required to only open the plastic cap and bring the level to the max. line. and as for the service guy well I will not get into an argument with him. Read the following somewhere in this thread *do not argue with an idiot, he will drag you down to his level* or something like that.

For you my friend here are the deep dark secrets from the world of Thermodynamics.
Now the ever occurring drop in the radiator level necessitated the plastic bottle to be used as the storage. The plastic storage bottle & the radiator are connected and this closed circuit ensures there is optimal amount of the mix in the circuit which also includes the channels around the engine block and the pump etc. The mix will evaporate, this property allows the system to work, though not all of the hot mix evaporates the majority of it cools down and returns to liquid state or condensates and the excess mix that cannot be accommodated in the circuit comes back to the plastic bottle via the return pipe. However, this on going cycle brings us to the day when quite a bit of the water and some of the glycol too is gone. On such a day we find that the coolant mix level in the plastic bottle is low. On that day we go to the smart alec service guy who I am sure got an ATKT in his TD exams. He fills up both the plastic bottle and the radiator. Horror! what does the system do now. It must be feeling like a two lane road carrying the load of four lane traffic. well the simplest simile is how I feel after stuffing myself with Choole Bhature. In goes thums up and out comes a burrp and voila I am as light as air bring on the Jalebis.
The cooling system similarily too has air pockets which come into existance due to the heat cool heat cycles that take place when we run the vehicles. Even a stationary cooled down system will have some air trapped somewhere and the liquid eventually purges the air and there is actually a burrp vent *vapour vent* in the radiator cap & or the plastic bottle cap depending on the manufacturers design. these are not ordinary systems you see the wise men had to devise ways and means for the ATKTs to eventually get their degrees.

So the next time our guy opens both the caps just smile you know something that he does not know you know.
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Old 10th October 2009, 19:20   #89
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You are a very brave man and now you are sounding like you are my age. Youngish
Yeah, I am a very young chap, your senior by just 8 years!
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Old 10th October 2009, 19:25   #90
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Originally Posted by nandans2005 View Post
khoj,

Its a normal practice that while topping up, both the radiator & the coolant container are topped up....i really dont understand why this was being done though only the container needs to be topped,

While i did raise this point at my spouse's car service centre, i was proved wrong twice, when the guy opened the radiator cap and showed me the fins of it, saying that the water in the radiator evaporates so its is compulsory to top up the radiator.

what do we say ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by khoj View Post
No you are not wrong, the system is designed so that you the consumer is required to only open the plastic cap and bring the level to the max. line.

So the next time our guy opens both the caps just smile you know something that he does not know you know.
as explained it's not needed. reservoir is exactly what it's called, reservoir for excess that will be needed when it's cooled down. the radiator cap has a rubber gasket and valve system to expel excess coolant (here is the correct usage of the term ). opening it frequently open it to the risk of spoiling the gasket, and letting dust particle settle in it causing leakages.
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