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Old 11th October 2009, 00:56   #91
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jus curious - isnt the marking on the reserve tank and the radiator on the same level? when one goes down the other balances?
So why open both while toping up.. the more you pour in the reserve is going to drain from the radiator.. right?
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Old 11th October 2009, 01:08   #92
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Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
Yeah, I am a very young chap, your senior by just 8 years!
Well young man it is my pleasure to make your aquaintance

I noticed in the earlier post you have mentioned hesitation to use the distilled water in the windshield washer tank.

This is slightly Off Topic but do not use water alone it will not be able to get the glass really clean. If windshield washer fluid is not available (Suzuki service stations sell this as MGA @ Rs. 17/- approx. per pouch) the alternative is to mix say 1 to 2 pouches (2ml) of hair conditioner to water. Do note it is hair conditioner and not hair shampoo or soap, both of which will roughen up the glass surface. Also never ever use any of the household glass cleaners such as colin etc. these are equally harmful. While we are on the subject of glass, as & when your original wipers need to be changed invest in a pair made by Bosch. These are easily available with the Mico Bosch dealers. Slightly expensive but a pair will last you nearly the life of the car. Remember wipers are the hidden or should I say silent killers of windscreens and the stock wipers supplied by Maruti are third class.

Ciao
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Old 11th October 2009, 01:19   #93
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Originally Posted by johnda View Post
jus curious - isnt the marking on the reserve tank and the radiator on the same level? when one goes down the other balances?
So why open both while toping up.. the more you pour in the reserve is going to drain from the radiator.. right?
Yes you are correct, a liquid will always seek to find its level and this principle applies to the cooling system also, and this is the basis behind the system design whereby you need to open only one cap. As for the second part again you are correct in stating that the excess liquid will be expelled from the system. The only difference is that in this system the excess liquid over pressurizes the system and the radiator cap vent system as explained by Vivekiny2k allows the excess to be vented*drained* out.
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Old 11th October 2009, 01:38   #94
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Originally Posted by khoj View Post
Gansan your above episode reminds me of the time when I was middle aged

Actually tap water will not damage the components as the impurities would have to be at very high concentration to clog the channels. You can forget about the rust part as none of the components in the current day car cooling systems are made out of iron, save for the water pump. Nowadays even in the pump only the nonwetted part *read casing* is iron. What could be harmful though is the so called distilled water. I say so as these days most of the battery distilled water is souped up with acid in trace amounts. Just enough so that when you pour it into your inverter battery it allows for quicker chemical reaction. While this is great for the battery water manufacturers sales it is certainly not good for the cooling system.

The water to use is the defrost water from your fridge or the water that your a/c (both heat exchange devices) lets out. The best of course is tap water no hassles at all.

Another point that caught my eye while going through this thread is that people are talking about opening or topping up via the radiator caps( excluding the gentlemen with the padmini & old gen civic and alike). For top ups please use the plastic bottle reservoir, the level marks are for that purpose. The radiator cap is best left for the times when you are getting the system flushed, repaired etc etc.

As for the chemistry between the glycol and water enough has been written and it makes for interesting reading. All I will say is our cars like it mixed neither shaken nor stirred.
I don't quite agree with using tap water. While it won't clog channels, it is likely that the minerals may leave a coating on the walls. Yes, a one off episode may not do a lot, but if tap water of varying hardness is used, it may eventually reduce heat transfer efficiency, if nothing else.

I wouldn't be to sure of the defrost waster too. It does have a typical odor, which means its more than just pure water. I guess only a lab test can ascertain this... That said, I kinda remember it mentioned in the manual of one of the refrigerator we had, that the defrosted water is not potable. Now if it indeed was pure water, there would not have been a need to mention that, IMO.

About commercial distilled water containing acid, I heard about the same thing from the guy who came to deliver my new car battery, recently. But if the water does contain any acid, aren't they supposed to mention on the pack? Whats more, the brand of distilled water I use contains the composition of the same on the label. But then, I know this is India - even eatables may not contain honest info... so I'd of course be skeptical about whats mentioned on the label... esp. of products from such small scale enterprises that make distilled water. But on the other hand, if the stuff does indeed include acid, then the manufacturer will incur a cost... and I doubt he will do that without advertising it on the label.
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Old 11th October 2009, 02:26   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnda View Post
jus curious - isnt the marking on the reserve tank and the radiator on the same level? when one goes down the other balances?
So why open both while toping up.. the more you pour in the reserve is going to drain from the radiator.. right?
Nopes it dosen't work that way. It works on pressure/vaccum... nothing to do with the level of fluid between them.
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Old 11th October 2009, 02:35   #96
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well tap water will have some scaling effect with prolonged usage but then that is the reason we have the glycol with all of the additives including one with antiscaling properties. Further the impurities would have to be present in humongous quantity to really do some damage and such water sample would give it away visually by appearing cloudy, reddish, greenish, yellowish etc etc and no one would be using that correct. I have a 1996 Zen with 200+K on the meter. this car has been brought up on a pure diet of tap water available with various MASS in Delhi and others spread as far as Goa in the South to Pathankot in the North, Mumbai & Pune in the West to Lucknow in the East. In the last 13 years everything in this car has moved around, except the engine, gear box, the cooling system including the temperature gauge needle. Well the TG needle does move but it comes to a rest at almost the same point on the gauge slightly below the mid mark. trust the Zen, the mutes do not lie.

As for the defrost water well it is indeed water, the odour is because in the drain pan sits the muck that gets accumulated along with other things that can find their way into the pan. Besides even I am not given to quench my thirst with it but for use in the car well if I can filter it get rid of the muck etc sure.

As for the distilled water manufacturer you have covered that very well and regarding the costs incurred as long as his customer that is your battery wallah knows about the extra magic he has recovered his costs and more.
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Old 11th October 2009, 07:14   #97
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[quote=khoj;1525101].

The tap water quality in Bangalore is much to be desired.

Maruthi 800 water pump casings are Aluminium Alloy, the impellers and the drive shafts are iron. the bearings are sealed ones, so if the pump start making noise, the whole assemble has to be replaced.

You get 2 types of Battery water. "Distilled" water ( no acid in this) and Battery water or Acid water. This contains sulphiric acid and the Sp.Gr is about 1.10 .

Also lots of modern Cars in our country now don't have cap on the radiator. Only thecap on the coolant reservoir.

If the coolant level in the expansion bottle is unchanged but the level in the radiator is low ( fins visible) means only one thing. The Radiator cap is not sealing properly. I mean enough vacuum is not being created in the radiator to draw the coolant back from the expansion botttle.

As for the marking on the expansion bottle and the radiator level being same. It is true for a gravity fed system. But the present day radiators works on the pressure release / vacuum system. The levels of the liquid is not much of a concern.

Last edited by sudharma : 11th October 2009 at 07:16. Reason: Correction due to sticky keyboard.
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Old 11th October 2009, 12:17   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khoj View Post
... The radiator cap is best left for the times when you are getting the system flushed, repaired etc etc.
....
I do believe that the fluid level in the radiator should be checked regularly. Checking just the reservoir is not good enough.
The case cited below demonstrates what I am saying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nandans2005 View Post
.....
While i did raise this point at my spouse's car service centre, i was proved wrong twice, when the guy opened the radiator cap and showed me the fins of it, saying that the water in the radiator evaporates so its is compulsory to top up the radiator.
...
A vacuum must form before any fluid can be sucked into the radiator from the reservoir. If the radiator or its cap have the slightest leakage a vacuum cannot form. The fluid level in the radiator will keep dropping and that in the reservoir will stay nearly constant.
This can lead to engine overheating, as experienced by TSK 1979 on his trip to Kinnaur in his Safari.
It also underscores that checking the fluid level in the radiator must be done at regular intervals.

It goes without saying that any leakage in the radiator or the cap must be rectified at the earliest.
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Old 11th October 2009, 12:59   #99
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Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
I do believe that the fluid level in the radiator should be checked regularly. Checking just the reservoir is not good enough.
The case cited below demonstrates what I am saying.



A vacuum must form before any fluid can be sucked into the radiator from the reservoir. If the radiator or its cap have the slightest leakage a vacuum cannot form. The fluid level in the radiator will keep dropping and that in the reservoir will stay nearly constant.
This can lead to engine overheating, as experienced by TSK 1979 on his trip to Kinnaur in his Safari.
It also underscores that checking the fluid level in the radiator must be done at regular intervals.

It goes without saying that any leakage in the radiator or the cap must be rectified at the earliest.
Well, that is why the temp gauge is there. Check the radiator cap, radiator level etc when the temp needle starts climbing. As already explained by Vivekiny2k frequent and unnecessary opening of the radiator cap can lead to premature cap failure.
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Old 11th October 2009, 13:45   #100
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Well, that is why the temp gauge is there. Check the radiator cap, radiator level etc when the temp needle starts climbing....
I'm afraid it doesn't work that way!
The temperature gauge will fail to show anything abnormal if the coolant from the radiator has all leaked out!

As for radiator cap gaskets getting worn out, the less said the better!
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Old 11th October 2009, 13:52   #101
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I am sorry but I fail to understand in that case as to what the temperature gauge is there for.
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Old 11th October 2009, 14:58   #102
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I am sorry but I fail to understand in that case as to what the temperature gauge is there for.
Do go through this: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/travel...ew-thread.html (Nightmares and Dreamscapes : A trip to remember : The new thread)
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Old 11th October 2009, 16:40   #103
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First thanks for directing me to the thread, it made for some wonderful reading and amazing photographs.

Second it confirms that both of us are correct in what we are saying.
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Old 11th October 2009, 21:54   #104
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I am confused. Do you guys mean to say It is not enough if I check the coolant level in the reservoir once a week as advised by Maruti? Should I open and check the radiator too? But the MASS guys told me not to touch the radiator and restrict myself only with the coolant tank.

And if the temp gauge will show normal temp even if the coolant drains out of the radiator, what is it's use?
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Old 11th October 2009, 22:17   #105
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Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
....

And if the temp gauge will show normal temp even if the coolant drains out of the radiator, what is it's use?
LOL, I sympathize with your concern!
The temperature gauge is useful only as long as there is fluid in the radiator!
With fluid lost and the sensor hanging in air, there is no way the poor thing can tell you the temperature of the fluid (which is not there)!

That is why in other critical machinery setups there are TWO gauges that work in 'tandem' - one is a flow sensor to confirm that fluid flow is actually taking place and the other is the temperature sensor that tells you the temperature of the fluid! One or the other is not good enough - you need both to know the full story.
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