Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Technical Stuff


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12th October 2008, 19:32   #1
BHPian
 
DarkEraser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 68
Thanked: 2 Times
Default What will be the effect of 100% coolant?

Hi,

I read on the coolent bottle that we need to add 2 parts of water. A quick question came into my mind - What if I didn't added water or added less water say, 25% water and 75% coolent?

What will be the effect of no water or less water added to coolent?

Thanks in advance
DarkEraser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th October 2008, 10:36   #2
GTO
Team-BHP Support
 
GTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 47,729
Thanked: 89,212 Times
Default

Simply because most coolants work best that way; Water is best at heat transfer. Also, I am not sure if the thicker coolant would flow as efficiently as water.
GTO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th October 2008, 11:12   #3
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Thad E Ginathom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chennai
Posts: 7,839
Thanked: 7,209 Times
Default

The stuff in the bottle is not really coolant (does it say that on the label? Odd if it does) it is an additive. The water is the coolant.

It's prime purpose in colder climates is as anti-freeze (it isn't fun to get up on a frosty morning to find your engine block has broken!) but it also functions to help prevent rusting.
Thad E Ginathom is offline   (4) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 13th October 2008, 11:31   #4
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 2,035
Thanked: 384 Times
Default

Raditor coolent is actually a glycol ( may be mix of various glycols) which lowers the freezing point of liquid ( not vary relevent to India ) and increases the boiling point of water , So by adding coolant you make sure that water does not convert to steam with engine heat and remains in liquid form to carry away heat.
Glycols may not be very efficient in heat transmission so 100% raditor coolant is not recommended.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkEraser View Post
Hi,

I read on the coolent bottle that we need to add 2 parts of water. A quick question came into my mind - What if I didn't added water or added less water say, 25% water and 75% coolent?

What will be the effect of no water or less water added to coolent?

Thanks in advance
amitk26 is online now   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 13th October 2008, 11:33   #5
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dubai
Posts: 3,860
Thanked: 128 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
The stuff in the bottle is not really coolant (does it say that on the label? Odd if it does) it is an additive. The water is the coolant...
The coolant is an additive. You need to dilute it for its effective working.
HappyWheels is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th October 2008, 11:42   #6
BHPian
 
DarkEraser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 68
Thanked: 2 Times
Default

Thank you for your input. I will add water to it. Thanks

Quote:
The stuff in the bottle is not really coolant (does it say that on the label? Odd if it does)
Yep, it says that it's coolent.
DarkEraser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th October 2008, 12:31   #7
gpa
Senior - BHPian
 
gpa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,772
Thanked: 273 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkEraser View Post
What will be the effect of no water or less water added to coolent?
Hi DarkEraser,

You're car's cooling system is designed to work best when the coolant is mixed with water in the proportion given. A car's cooling systems are not designed to take in only coolant.

Cheers,

gpa
gpa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th October 2008, 12:44   #8
Senior - BHPian
 
ASHISHPALLOD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: BRMT
Posts: 1,987
Thanked: 285 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
Raditor coolent is actually a glycol ( may be mix of various glycols) which lowers the freezing point of liquid ( not vary relevent to India ) and increases the boiling point of water , So by adding coolant you make sure that water does not convert to steam with engine heat and remains in liquid form to carry away heat.
Glycols may not be very efficient in heat transmission so 100% raditor coolant is not recommended.
Glycol mentioned in the statement is Monoethylen glycol which is used as anti freezing agent in coolant[ water etc]. It does not meant that it increases boiling point of water. Both issues are totally different.
ASHISHPALLOD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th October 2008, 13:05   #9
BHPian
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bangalore, Karnataka, India
Posts: 29
Thanked: 2 Times
Default

On racing tracks, you run pure water. No "coolant" additive. Does that explain which is the active component?
ajith is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 13th October 2008, 13:21   #10
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 2,035
Thanked: 384 Times
Default

Boiling point of Ethylene Glycol is 197.60 deg Celcius , Ethylene Glycol is a colligative agent meaning it simultaneously increases the boiling point and reduces the freezing point of the mixture that is why it is relevent to add it in warm climates where temperature never falls to freezing point.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ASHISHPALLOD View Post
Glycol mentioned in the statement is Monoethylen glycol which is used as anti freezing agent in coolant[ water etc]. It does not meant that it increases boiling point of water. Both issues are totally different.
amitk26 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 13th October 2008, 14:00   #11
Senior - BHPian
 
ASHISHPALLOD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: BRMT
Posts: 1,987
Thanked: 285 Times
Default

Quote:
Ethylene glycol can begin to breakdown at 230 – 250F (110 – 121C). Note that breakdown can occur when the system bulk (average) temperature is below these limits because surface temperatures in heat exchangers and boilers can be locally well above these temperatures.
The major use of ethylene glycol is as an antifreeze in, for example, automobiles and personal computers. Due to its low freezing point, it is also used as a deicing fluid for windshields and aircraft. Ethylene glycol is also commonly used in chilled water air conditioning systems that place either the chiller or air handlers outside, or systems that must cool below the freezing temperature of water.
An ethylene glycol–water mixture can be ignited and burns in an atmosphere of pure low pressure oxygen
The above para indicates that meg is used as antifreeze agent rather than increasing boiling point of water. Normally, meg added in water as antifreeze agent not more than 10%. Meg [ mono ethylene glycol] is toxic to human body and stringent rules are there to handle this material.

In case of car coolant, water is mixed in proportionate to coolant.

Last edited by Aditya : 13th October 2008 at 14:34.
ASHISHPALLOD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th October 2008, 14:13   #12
Senior - BHPian
 
alpha1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: P00NA
Posts: 1,625
Thanked: 966 Times
Default

simple thing is that water has got one of the best specific heat capacity.

That means it can absord more heat than other fluids per degree celcius raise in temp per kilogram.
Your cooling system has been designed to use water based on its specific heat capacity.

You put somethign that has probably less than half the water's specific heat. That means to remove same heat, you would require more than double amount of water you used to put.


Hence, don't do it.
Infact running on pure water is pretty acceptable under certain emergecny conditions.
alpha1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 13th October 2008, 15:22   #13
BHPian
 
DarkEraser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 68
Thanked: 2 Times
Default

Thank you all for your inputs.

Just FYI:

I am using ZipCool Radiator Coolant. Here is the text written on the bottle:

Mfg by:
Dynamic Engineering Company
India's First ISO 9001 Certified Coolant Company


Product:
Ethandiol based synthetic Long life Engine coolant - antifreeze for water cooled petrol & diesel engines used in cars, LCV's trucks, tractors, earthmoving, gen-sets, marines, industrial engines.

Direction:
Add 2 parts of water

Specification:
ASTM D 3306 read with JIS K 2234

Features:
Anti-corrosive for cast aluminium, cast iron, mild steel, brass, copper and solder.
Hard water stable upto 800ppm hardness as Caco3
DarkEraser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th October 2008, 15:35   #14
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 2,035
Thanked: 384 Times
Default

So as per your logic there is no use of adding Ethylene -Glycol in radiator mix in Indian Climate as barring hign altitude in Himalayas temp never drops to freezing point any where , and as pure distilled water is cheaper it will just work fine in radiator.

I see you have quoted from a search result thrown up by Google may be you can search for effect on boiling point.

Breakdown of Ethylene Glycol do happen and that is why life of radiator fluid is about 2 years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ASHISHPALLOD View Post
The above para indicates that meg is used as antifreeze agent rather than increasing boiling point of water. Normally, meg added in water as antifreeze agent not more than 10%. Meg [ mono ethylene glycol] is toxic to human body and stringent rules are there to handle this material.

In case of car coolant, water is mixed in proportionate to coolant.
amitk26 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 13th October 2008, 16:39   #15
Senior - BHPian
 
ASHISHPALLOD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: BRMT
Posts: 1,987
Thanked: 285 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
So as per your logic there is no use of adding Ethylene -Glycol in radiator mix in Indian Climate as barring hign altitude in Himalayas temp never drops to freezing point any where , and as pure distilled water is cheaper it will just work fine in radiator.
.
I never said that there is no use of ethylene glycol in radiator mix if added at all as coolant.
What i am pointing is if meg added in coolant, then it is added in coolant as antifreeze agent rather than as agent to increase boiling point of water.

Quote:
Raditor coolent is actually a glycol ( may be mix of various glycols)
but right now, you and me, both don't know whether meg is present in coolant.

Last edited by ASHISHPALLOD : 13th October 2008 at 16:42.
ASHISHPALLOD is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Coolant level low, but no symptoms? Ravich Technical Stuff 53 13th November 2016 18:14
800 Consuming coolant humyum Technical Stuff 28 5th March 2015 15:45
NANO effect and EURO effect in Small Car market allwheeldrive The Indian Car Scene 8 15th June 2009 22:29
Water or Coolant? Team123 Technical Stuff 21 24th April 2006 08:57
coolant guzzling Esteem chandan Technical Stuff 10 21st July 2005 12:28


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 20:46.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks